Manning Wardle 'L' Class 0-6-0

[Wickham Green too]

49 minutes ago, James Harrison said:

The GCR bought a number of Manning Wardle 0-6-0s for use at Grimsby Docks.  Frustratingly, the records given in Dow Vol 2 are incomplete.  I wonder if any of them were L type...

Six locos bought by M.S.&.L from contractors Logan & Hemingway 1876-84 - variable wheel sizes 3'0'' to 3'9'' .......... some ( probably the same ) details in British Locomotive Catalogue.

[Jeremy Cumberland]

MS&LR 408 was Old I class 128/1864

MS&LR 407 was N class 387/1873. This loco became LNER 6469

MS&LR 456 was M class 342/1871

MS&LR 457 was K class 587/1876

MS&LR 537 was K class 608/1876

MS&LR 538 was K class 586/1876

 

M class 707/1879 (BISMARK) was apparently bought by the MS&LR in 1880 but I don't know any details.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Jeremy Cumberland
Mistakenly said that BISMARK was an L class

[James Harrison]

25 minutes ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

MS&LR 408 was Old I class 128/1864

MS&LR 407 was N class 387/1873. This loco became LNER 6469

MS&LR 456 was M class 342/1871

MS&LR 457 was K class 587/1876

MS&LR 537 was K class 608/1876

MS&LR 538 was K class 586/1876

 

L class 707/1879 (BISMARK) was apparently bought by the MS&LR in 1880 but I don't know any details.

 

Thanks - Dow records 'Bismarck' as an 0-6-0, works number 747, bought from Logan & Hemingway in May 1880 for £1,100.  Given MSLR number 455 and scrapped March 1905. 

 

Works number 707 is recorded in the same source as being a Manning Wardle 0-4-0 bought in September 1880 and scrapped October 1907, MSLR number 457 (later 457C).  

 

Darn, this looks like I'm going to be in the market for two of them.  One as a contractor's loco and the other as a GC shunter. 

[PhilJ W]

4 hours ago, Daddyman said:

Not really - the three (?) on the Brill Tramway were all "K" class, and the only Metropolitan locos to work the line were "D" and, later, "A" classes.  

Thanks for that info, a Metropolitan A class has possibly more variations than the Manning Wardle. How about it Rapido?

[Butler Henderson]

On 25/08/2023 at 12:16, BVMR21 said:

A very good choice, now to come up with a reason for a fictional heritage railway in Mid* Wales to have one.....

Very simple - preserved locos do wander between lines even if just for a gala so one of models of a preserved loco would be wholly appropriate.

[Jeremy Cumberland]

49 minutes ago, James Harrison said:

 

Thanks - Dow records 'Bismarck' as an 0-6-0, works number 747, bought from Logan & Hemingway in May 1880 for £1,100.  Given MSLR number 455 and scrapped March 1905. 

 

Works number 707 is recorded in the same source as being a Manning Wardle 0-4-0 bought in September 1880 and scrapped October 1907, MSLR number 457 (later 457C).  

 

Darn, this looks like I'm going to be in the market for two of them.  One as a contractor's loco and the other as a GC shunter. 

I see I made a mistake about Bismark, but not in the works number 707/1879, which comes from the very useful http://www.leedsengine.info database, but in saying it was an L class, when it was actually an M class. I've edited my earlier post.

 

The same source has MW 747/1880 being a D class 0-4-0 bought new by the MS&LR as number 464. They bought a number of 0-4-0s direct from Manning Wardle:

454 D class 717/1880

464 D class 747/1880

465 D class 748/1880

511 P class 884/1883 (later GCR 62/62B and LNER 6431)

512 P class 885/1883 (later GCR 63/63B and LNER 6430)

 

This still leaves MS&LR number 455 free for BISMARK.

 

Do you have anything for K class 452/1873, which was also apparently sold by Logan & Hemingway to the MS&LR, but again I have no details?

[James Harrison]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

I see I made a mistake about Bismark, but not in the works number 707/1879, which comes from the very useful http://www.leedsengine.info database, but in saying it was an L class, when it was actually an M class. I've edited my earlier post.

 

The same source has MW 747/1880 being a D class 0-4-0 bought new by the MS&LR as number 464. They bought a number of 0-4-0s direct from Manning Wardle:

454 D class 717/1880

464 D class 747/1880

465 D class 748/1880

511 P class 884/1883 (later GCR 62/62B and LNER 6431)

512 P class 885/1883 (later GCR 63/63B and LNER 6430)

 

This still leaves MS&LR number 455 free for BISMARK.

 

Do you have anything for K class 452/1873, which was also apparently sold by Logan & Hemingway to the MS&LR, but again I have no details?

 

I'm afraid I can't find anything for 452/1873 in Dow.  There are a couple of MW 0-6-0s listed for which the works number is unknown, so it could quite easily be one of those.  Typically if the works number is listed as unknown, then driving wheel diameter and cylinder diameter and stroke is also absent. 

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

... Do you have anything for K class 452/1873, ...

Nothing in the British Locomotive Catalogue either.

[JShow]

8 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Love the weatherboard version of these, much prettier than the proper cab, especially with the full lining of Sir Berkeley.  The model will oviously need a great deal of attention to the backhead detail etc with no cab.

If one visits Rapido's webpage for the L Class, one can see additional renders, including one of the backhead and cab details for the open cab version. 

[PaulRhB]

Here’s the web page,

 

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/manning-wardle-l-class-0-6-0/

 

Wait for it to scroll through the pics or tap on the side to scroll through faster. 

[BVMR21]

10 hours ago, papagolfjuliet said:

 

The Gwili Railway had 'Aldwyth' for a while if that helps.

Oooooo interesting, will have to look more into it.

[whart57]

Mixed feelings.

 

1: Great to have a Manning Wardle 0-6-0T

 

2: Shame it's not the "I" or "K" which were the real light railway locos. They were the ones Colonel Stephens had on the Selsey Tramway and the Shropshire and Montgomeryshire, that was what was on the Mawddwy Tramway before the Cambrian took over.

 

Still if Mr Rapido is chasing his Middleton Railway loves then who am I to stand in the way. Must get that pre-order in, the North Sussex could easily have one.

[ikks]

Wow!! complete with a Model-U Driver and smoke🙂

Edited August 27, 2023 by ikks

[JShow]

On 26/08/2023 at 00:42, papagolfjuliet said:

The Gwili Railway had 'Aldwyth' for a while if that helps.

Irwell Press's Industrial Railways in Colour: South has a photo of "Aldwyth", MW 865 of 1882. It's described as "a standard Manning Wardle contractors locomotive of the period." It's wearing a black livery and a curved-front cab roof.  Quite austere in appearance. Definitely not an L Class. MW 1601 of 1903 appears on the opposite page. "Arthur", an L Class, eventually made it to the Middleton Railway as "Matthew Murray." 

 

If "Aldwyth" appeared on the Gwili Railway, why not an L Class too?

[PaulRhB]

2 hours ago, whart57 said:

Shame it's not the "I" or "K" which were the real light railway locos. They were the ones Colonel Stephens had on the Selsey Tramway and the Shropshire and Montgomeryshire,

Thing is how many are going to model those railways as opposed to use them on freelance lines where the difference is largely immaterial? 😉  Industrial layouts similarly are rarely based on exact prototypes so probably over 95% of the market won’t be bothered at all and anyone modelling the exact line is probably better off with a kit to get the detail exactly right and the gauge closer to reality too. 
There’s an interesting dichotomy that there are pages of discussion on, for example, the left hand tank filler being green instead of brown but readily accepting the 8.5inches missing in the axle! 
I’m quite happy with the compromise of rtr because it allows me to scratch multiple itches in what time I have available so it really only matters if modelling the prototype line. There are numerous W&U ish layouts on here with J70’s but I can only think of one actually based on a real location. Similarly with the Pi Victory many sold but only Roundhouse seems to be actively modelling an actual railway that had one with Shepherdswell 😀

[Captain Kernow]

On 26/08/2023 at 10:47, Not Jeremy said:

Sorry, I’m in a place that causes one to reflect, and this thread is losing me the will to live!!

Absolutely no need to apologise, old fruit!

 

 

[whart57]

26 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Thing is how many are going to model those railways as opposed to use them on freelance lines where the difference is largely immaterial? 😉  Industrial layouts similarly are rarely based on exact prototypes so probably over 95% of the market won’t be bothered at all and anyone modelling the exact line is probably better off with a kit to get the detail exactly right and the gauge closer to reality too.

 

Well there's always the old Triang "Nellie" if you want freelance ..........

 

OK, I probably know more about standard gauge light railways and Manning Wardles than is good for me, but I am a little disappointed with Rapido's choice. The I/K class (MW themselves were a little inconsistent in their naming here) were a little smaller than the L, and were a bit earlier too. Rapido may have missed a trick as they could have offered both the rounded off saddle tank and the older flat sided one with the I/K, as well as different safety valves - the oldest Is were in fact George England locos from before MW taking the company over. The unusual wheelbase with the rear pair being closer together than the front pair is also pleasing to my eyes.

 

I don't want to moan really, Rapido have made their choice, it's just that it wouldn't have been my choice. But then I'm not running their company.

[PaulRhB]

2 minutes ago, whart57 said:

I don't want to moan really, Rapido have made their choice, it's just that it wouldn't have been my choice. But then I'm not running their company.

Fair enough but industrial use to go with their other industrial loco is in reality a bigger market I assume. 
For those badly wanting a K, there is a rtr one 

https://www.minervamodelrailways.co.uk/product/manning-wardle-k-class-0-6-0/

😉

 

[whart57]

Minerva Models are 7mm scale though aren't they? I have a Slaters kit I need to finish in that scale.

[AY Mod]

2 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Industrial layouts similarly are rarely based on exact prototypes so probably over 95% of the market won’t be bothered at all

 

Otherwise we would be knee deep in Huntley and Palmer's biscuit works.

[PaulRhB]

27 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Otherwise we would be knee deep in Huntley and Palmer's biscuit works.

Nothing to complain about there, when are they going to do a Lyon’s Cakes one I wonder, that would be heaven 😇

[PaulRhB]

37 minutes ago, whart57 said:

Minerva Models are 7mm scale though aren't they? I have a Slaters kit I need to finish in that scale.

Yup, just sowing seeds . . . 😉

[cornelius]

Hornby have done two types of Peckett, Sentinel and (eventually) Ruston so who's to say what else might happen.

[Michael Hodgson]

44 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Otherwise we would be knee deep in Huntley and Palmer's biscuit works.

And use the lid of the empty tin as a backscene ?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

5 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

There’s an interesting dichotomy that there are pages of discussion on, for example, the left hand tank filler being green instead of brown but readily accepting the 8.5inches missing in the axle! 

Actually, overall axle length on driving wheels isn't so far off on RTR OO when it comes to smaller Victorian designs, which had axle lengths approaching 5'3"; the LNWR Coal tank produced by Bachmann had very near true scale axle length. Rapido can probably get this dimension correct on the Manning Wardle if they are so minded.