Radio Controlled locos, lorries, cranes etc. Electroplating

[Barnaby]

Hello again

Bit of an update.  The gantry hoist had 2 motors one for lift/lower and the other for slewing it.

Here's a short vid >>>

#!  It starts at 1min 44secs in.

 

There's a little bit of text missing for The Gantry drawing below which I add here.  .....     ,so that with the height of the hook raised or lowered to the correct height it can be moved sideways to engage a loop of wire fixed to the top of the load.  So it's lower hook - slide hook into load loop - lift load - slew load to drop point - lower hook - slide hook out. 

NB. SIZES QUOTED ARE FOR 2MM SCALE.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Barnaby

[Giles]

Thank you Barnaby - very interesting!

 

What was cleverly achieved on Wenfordbridge was an actual chain hoist, driven by a nylon line loop - very clever...... The slight down side is that so far as I can see, the hook would raise or lower as the carriage traversed. But quite an achievement!

 

I'm going for the wire-rope type hoist, with the end mounted winch, rather than a carriage mounted winch. I'll probably just put the motors straight on the end - as it will disappear inside a building - rather than take the lines down to the bottom, although it would be easy enough to do that - just three more pulleys.

 

Having said all that - that chap having made such a great job of it in 2mm makes one want to pack up and go home!

[Giles]

this is mine – the prolem that I shall have is keeping it from getting it too tall! (considering that I want it to come out of a building....)

 

 

 

 

 

[Barnaby]

Nice Giles

 

No his worked not unlike yours will the motored hoist carriage just moved along the joist moving the hook assy loop along without letting out any hook cable.  Difficult to put in words but if you look at his drawing it does make sense.
ie it just slides left or right within the hook loop with no up and down hook movement.

 

However yours looks like it could be simpler to make.

 

Cheers

Edited May 4, 2013 by Barnaby

[Giles]

I still think his might raise and lower a bit though, because on both versions - his and mine - as the carriage traverses, the pulley wheel is forced to rotate. This does nothing on mine, but because he's actually using the rotation of his to drive his chain hoist, I would expect his hoist to lift up or down.

However - I apologise for being pedantic - but Ishould very much like to fully unsertand whatI'll seeing - so if I've misunderstood, please do correct me! (some times these drawings are not quite so easy to interperate as they might first appear)

 

Meanwhile, it's terribly useful to see another, very imaginative approach to the problem.

 

I hope mine is simpler - I like simple....!

[queensquare]

I still think his might raise and lower a bit though, because on both versions - his and mine - as the carriage traverses, the pulley wheel is forced to rotate. This does nothing on mine, but because he's actually using the rotation of his to drive his chain hoist, I would expect his hoist to lift up or down.

However - I apologise for being pedantic - but Ishould very much like to fully unsertand whatI'll seeing - so if I've misunderstood, please do correct me! (some times these drawings are not quite so easy to interperate as they might first appear)

 

Meanwhile, it's terribly useful to see another, very imaginative approach to the problem.

 

I hope mine is simpler - I like simple....!

 

Having operated the crane and hoist many dozens of times I can assure you the hook does not go up and down as it slews from side to side. John still exhibits Wenfordbridge, he was at Nottingham this year with it. If you want to have a chat with him about how it works come and see us at Railex Aylesbury in a couple of weeks time when he is helping me with Tucking Mill.

John does not do the interweb but we have tentatively been discussing a 7mm project together and a working lorry is likely to feature. I am very much enjoying this fascinating thread - and enjoyed having a play, along with Laurie Griffin, at the narrow gauge show in Shepton this year (I was demonstrating next door with stupidly small 2mm narrow gauge things!).

 

Jerry

[Giles]

Jerry - thankyou! I hope I shall do exactly that..... I'm sorry though not to see Wenfordbridge in the flesh.... (although I'm struggling to see that small nowadays..,) it would be a of a triumph in any scale, but in 2mm...!

 

I'm afraid we didn't have very much time to chat at Shepton - it was a bit busy - but I do remember your equisite teeny narrow gauge very well - and thinking 'how.....?'

[Barnaby]

Hello Giles and thanks Jerry for you comments too.

 

If we look at your drawing above [cos it's simpler] the upper motor slews and the lower motor raises/lowers the hook.  Yes you are right to say the hook pulley turns when it slews but only because the pulley is rolling over the lift wire NOT because the lift wire is feeding out.  The hook can not raise/lower unless the hook motor changes the wire length by turning.

 

Just thinking out load loud here you could have roll-over bars and do away with the 2 pulleys above the hook provided there was enough weight in the hook block to keep it tight.  Not having your machine shop expertise I will have to use ready made stock cut to length a file and my drill.

Will you be adding G/boxes or using speed control with the motors?

I've been considering using some servos from my R/C aircraft days via a servo tester box to drive the slew and hook, I'd just need to amplify the throw for it to work.................  maybe

 

Following it all closely.

 

Good stuff.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Barnaby

[auld_boot]

Really enjoying this thread, there's some lovely micro-engineering on here.

 

Stumbled across these earlier while researching an old kit I have, they have some neat looking bevel gearboxes listed that maybe of use:

http://grandtline.com/products/mrr/mrr%20details/transmission_components_ujoints.html

[Giles]

 

If we look at your drawing above [cos it's simpler] the upper motor slews and the lower motor raises/lowers the hook.  Yes you are right to say the hook pulley turns when it slews but only because the pulley is rolling over the lift wire NOT because the lift wire is feeding out.  The hook can not raise/lower unless the hook motor changes the wire length by turning.

 

Absolutely ! That's the very principle. Indeed, the Olivier Theatre at the National has just had a whole scenery flying system installed on this very system.

 

You can indeed use very simple rollers instead of the pulley and bearings that I have used - or you can also use the same pulleys, but not bother with the bearings, but let the shaft rotate in the holes. For the loads we are talking, that would work perfectly well......

 

The 12v motors I have are already geared down to an output of 45 RPM, and then I shall use a speed control on that (the motors were only about £5 each from China, via Ebay.)

 

Servos would work fine - if you take a pin out, or something - i can't quite remember- you can very easily convert them to give constant bi-directional rotative motion. I did it once, with no problem...... Certainly you could look it up on the internet.....!

 

Auld-boot - glad your enjoying it - those Grandt Line bits and pieces are really nice - the delrin chain too!

[johnlostcreek]

Hi Giles

 

Beautiful project.I keep following

 

I have my front wheels under the car but they come against the fenders.

This should I make a little different. pictures will follow.

 

John 

[Giles]

Bank Holiday Monday - and I spent it in...... (how sad am I.......)

 

Anyway, barring the motor mounts, I got the gantry completed. It turned out to bean excercise in careful soft soldering - adding components without melting previous work and the whole thing dopping apart.... Anyway, I got away with it.

 

 

 

 

Di's had an awfully good idea for the wire rope (albeit expensive) so I shall do some experiments, and we'll see.....

[queensquare]

 

I'm afraid we didn't have very much time to chat at Shepton - it was a bit busy - but I do remember your equisite teeny narrow gauge very well - and thinking 'how.....?'

 

Thanks Giles, most people are more likely to ask why!!

 

Really enjoying this thread,

 

Jerry

[Barnaby]

looking good time well spent I'd say.

 

One thing though unlike your drawing above I take it the slew pulley is offset to one side on the brassed up parts?

 

Regards

[Pugsley]

Di's had an awfully good idea for the wire rope (albeit expensive) so I shall do some experiments, and we'll see.....

I'm not sure what that good idea is, or how expensive, but Eileens sell what they call microbraid, which is essentially a mini stainless steel wire rope:

https://www.eileensemporium.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=eny_fly_default.tpl&product_id=3578&category_id=31&keyword=microbraid&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=9

https://www.eileensemporium.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=eny_fly_default.tpl&product_id=3986&category_id=31&keyword=microbraid&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=9

 

it comes in two sizes, either 0.31 or 0.45 mm diameter.

[Giles]

looking good time well spent I'd say.

 

One thing though unlike your drawing above I take it the slew pulley is offset to one side on the brassed up parts?

 

Regards

Hi Barnaby,

 

Yes, the slew pulley isn't drawn on the front elevation at all - it is off to one side, as the line picks up the carriage on the side.

 

Thanks for that, Pugsley – those braids are a bit thin - I'm looking at 0.8mm, and at 'snake chain'......

[Barnaby]

Ah yes Giles I see, your end projection drawn is showing the carriage hook pulley, the slew pulley will be in line with the girder and horizontally offset, got it now.     

 

Regards

[flexible_coupling]

Truly fascinating stuff. This is inspiring my creative process towards a long-dormant interest;  working locomotive depot traversers..... these guys have the motors, and evidently, some inventive structural engineering with brass is going to be the way and means..... Crewe has piqued my interest!

[Pugsley]

Thanks for that, Pugsley – those braids are a bit thin - I'm looking at 0.8mm, and at 'snake chain'......

Of course!  I think I had my 4mm scale head on when suggesting those.

[Jack P]

Wow, I had thought i'd seen it all with the lorry, but the OH Gantry is looking fantastic too. Looking forward to progress

 

Jack

[Giles]

Thanks chaps!

 

We'll see how it progresses, but it should be possible to get it operating reasonably realistically (ish!)

[Barnaby]

My basic thoughts now are to make it out of plastic parts and use 2 minx type motors for the lift & slew.  Ideally I'd want an opening and closing grab claw come bucket but I'm still investigating, looking for a simple mechanism to do this..

Ahh well get out the meccano play box again and start a proving test.

 

Regards.

[Giles]

Having been extremely busy with various things - I've not touched the crane for some weeks........ but I have been experimenting with various strings/wires/cables etc... to see how they behave. I've tried they extremely fine stainless wire rope from Eileen's Emp., but it isn't quite flexible enough - indeed the only thing I've found that behaves plausibly so far is silver snake chain (0,8mm) A rather expensive solution - but if that's what it takes........ 

It does need to be kept free from any twists when it's threaded, but if it behaves itself under the weight of just the hook, then under load it'll be no problem.

 

 

[Switcher102]

"... but I have been experimenting with various strings/wires/cables etc... to see how they behave."

 

 

 

Excellent, I like the way you are thinking Giles.

 

A toy maker thinks 'Will this work?'.

A modeller thinks 'Will this work like the real thing?'

 

Hopefully see you tomorrow

Rich

Edited June 7, 2013 by Switcher102

[Giles]

http://youtu.be/negf4qwRl6M

 

The winches are 'zero fleet' -which - (forgive me if I'm teaching my Grandmother, etc....) means that as the wire rope coils onto the drum, it remains perpendicular to the crane, and doesn't travel sideways as the wire collects....

In this instance it's done by using M6 bolts as the drum, and using M6 nuts soldered onto a brass frame to mount the drum/motor assembly. As the drum/bolt rotates, it then travels sideways, carrying away the collected wire rope,  whilst the incoming wire rope remains stationary relative to the crane.