BR Mark 1 suburban coaches working with earlier suburban coaches

[Nearholmer]

There were various TC sets made from bits and pieces used on the Oxted lines in the mid-60s to early-70s, as well as Mk1 sets.
 

Latterly, all the regular sets were Mk1, but if there was a DEMU shortage one or more ‘scratch sets’ was made up for the duration using whatever was going from the Exeter, Southampton Boat Train, and even newspaper train pools, and/or by shortening formations. The regular rakes were 8 cars, but the cobbled together ones were often only six, with the wrong mix of first and standard class. Sometimes, one got to ride home in a rather posh coach (saloon first??) with labels on the windows telling you that you were shortly to embark on a very posh cruise liner, when really you were about to embark on a bike ride home, up a long, steep hill in the rain.

[KeithHC]

Just found a picture of one set on the SRemg website. Set 904 comprising of 5 mk1 suburbans and two Bulleid composites arranged as Mk 1 BS, Bulleid CK, Bulleid CK, Mk1 C, Mk1 S, Mk1 S, and Mk1 BS. The two Bulleid’s where replaced by two Mk1 CKs.

 

Keith

[keefer]

I'm sure I've seen pics of latter-day KX Suburban trains (plain blue) with a 'normal' blue/grey CK in the set.

Would this have been an Outer Sub train when there were only S & BS NG coaches left in service? i.e. after the CL etc. were withdrawn?

[Wickham Green too]

8 hours ago, KeithHC said:

I seam to recall ... at least one case with former 4 SUB augmented trailers.

Set No.701 was formed of five such trailers between the coaches previously comprising 2BIL set 2006 .......... no, it wasn't seriously underpowered - it was totally unpowered.

[KeithHC]

Another Southern use. The Hayling Island branch. mk1 Suburban with various types including LSWR, Bulleid, and even part of pull push Maunsel conversion set 619 all behind a terrier. Very modelerable. 
 

Keith

[Nearholmer]

I think Hayling Island had one of the ‘plastic’ Mk1 suburban prototypes among its collection.

[Nearholmer]

13 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

it was totally unpowered.

That should read “un-powered”, in that the motors were taken out. It was a TC, except it wasn’t really a TC, because it couldn’t control the loco.

There were other one(s?) made from bits of PANs too, and that (they?) did have control gear, but at the time there was only one 33 so fitted, so I’m not sure it was used that way on the Oxted line.

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Nearholmer

[Wickham Green too]

19 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

... There were other one(s?) made from bits of PANs too, and that (they?) did have control gear,

Set 601 consisted of bits of COR ( two de-motored driving coaches ) & PUL/PAN ( four trailers ) and ....

[Steamport Southport]

Don't forget that many of the SR and WR Subs were the longer 64 foot version which isn't available RTR.

 

 

 

Jason

[bécasse]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I think Hayling Island had one of the ‘plastic’ Mk1 suburban prototypes among its collection.

The vehicle concerned was S1000S built as an experiment by the Southern Region using one of the MkI chassis salvaged from the Lewisham accident of 4 December 1957 with a new ten compartment body built using glass-reinforced plastic. It was readily identified by its white roof but didn't look quite right as a MkI suburban and was, of course, "long" rather than "short". I believe that it was the last vehicle built to be accorded a regional suffix to its painted number.

[melmoth]

7 minutes ago, bécasse said:

The vehicle concerned was S1000S built as an experiment by the Southern Region using one of the MkI chassis salvaged from the Lewisham accident of 4 December 1957 with a new ten compartment body built using glass-reinforced plastic. It was readily identified by its white roof but didn't look quite right as a MkI suburban and was, of course, "long" rather than "short". I believe that it was the last vehicle built to be accorded a regional suffix to its painted number.

 

This was preserved on the East Somerset at Cranmore. Don't know if it's still there.

[KeithHC]

21 minutes ago, melmoth said:

 

This was preserved on the East Somerset at Cranmore. Don't know if it's still there.

Yes still there painted in crimson but with the correct number.

 

Keith

[MJI]

Cornish branches

 

Long mark 1

Long BR built GWR designed similar to the mark 1s

 

Seen piccies of

3 car long BR non corridors

3 car BR built GWR long non corridors

1 Sunshine BTK and a post nat T as above

Not sure if seen any mixed mark 1 and late ex GWR as only a year between them. But may have seen 2 different 3 car sets in one train BR and GWR

 

Seen 2 random old ones, a third and a brake, random non corridors

B set with strenthening non corridor.

 

The 3 car sets above to seem to be T/T/BT with no first class.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

23 hours ago, keefer said:

I'm sure I've seen pics of latter-day KX Suburban trains (plain blue) with a 'normal' blue/grey CK in the set.

Would this have been an Outer Sub train when there were only S & BS NG coaches left in service? i.e. after the CL etc. were withdrawn?

Quite possibly. Out of KX the suburban services saw the displacement of first the Gresley and then the Thompson non-gangwayed stock as BR's equivalents arrived. The Thompson CL's hung on longest on outer sub until these services were all worked by DMU's and gangwayed loco hauled.

 

Gangwayed coaches made quite regular appearances on inner and outer suiburban services, usually on one end or the other of the NG stock, Gresley, Thompson, BRmk1, occasionally an LMR vehicle.

 

The exception was the Moorgate inner sub service: either a Quadart set, or five mk1 NG, initially BS,S,S,S,BS; revised to S,S,BS,S,S to provide more seating. This was all that would fit on the widened lines platforms.

[bmb5dnp1]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Don't forget that many of the SR and WR Subs were the longer 64 foot version which isn't available RTR.

 

 

 

Jason

Hello,

    Just to say Replica produced sets of the long frame MK1 suburbans in green and maroon/crimson, I think they may still be available as kits (in the sense of clip together parts).

 

                          Dave

Edited August 29, 2023 by bmb5dnp1
Clarification

[Wickham Green too]

3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Don't forget that many of the SR and WR Subs were the longer 64 foot version ...

Many of the WR and all of the SR ones.

[Nearholmer]

3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Don't forget that many of the SR and WR Subs were the longer 64 foot version which isn't available RTR.

 

Yes, and don’t forget that all this Oxted Line talk here is potentially utterly misleading, because the one sort of stock I don’t think was ever used was the Mk1 suburban. The Mk1 stock was all corridor coaches to my recollection.

[KeithHC]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

Yes, and don’t forget that all this Oxted Line talk here is potentially utterly misleading, because the one sort of stock I don’t think was ever used was the Mk1 suburban. The Mk1 stock was all corridor coaches to my recollection.

The picture I referred too earlier shows suburbans with the Bulleids and was taken at Oxted.

 

Keith

[Wickham Green too]

6 minutes ago, KeithHC said:

The picture I referred too earlier shows suburbans with the Bulleids and was taken at Oxted.

.... and detailed in Mike King's latest Southern coaching volume.

[Nearholmer]

Ooh, er!

 

When was that?

 

Definitely before my proper memories of such things. I’ve got ‘snapshot’ memories from probably c1964, but good, clear memories don’t kick-in until c1970. 
 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Nearholmer

[Hal Nail]

some pics here.

 

https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-CoachingSetsNonCorridorSets.html

 

Is this a 9 compartment a mk1 with LMS brake at Goonhavern here, 2nd pic down?

 

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/chacewater-to-newquay-branch.html

Edited August 29, 2023 by Hal Nail

[roythebus1]

I don't recall seeing b/g stock on the Kings Cross suburban trains in my time at KX. For a start the Widened Lines couldn't take 63' coaches round the corners under York Way and Hotel Curve. But that wouldn't prevent their use on outer suburban sets.

 

On the South Western there's a few pics of corridor and non-corridor sets working stopping trains to Basingstoke, with n/c stock in the middle and corridor stock at the outer ends due to limited platform lengths.

 

S100S was a "regular" on the Kenny Belle set along with a Bullied brake along with 2 other n/g coaches. there was also a set of short maroon suburban coaches renumbered with S prefix on the Southern for a while. That too appeared on the Kenny Belle.  The 6TC appeared on the Kenny Belle a few times as well.