00 Gauge GWR 6 Wheel Milk Siphon

[Rowan]

Hi Peeps,

I am building a small GWR country station shelf layout in 00. The setting is N. Wales in the 1910s. Try as I may, I cannot find an acceptable kit for a 6 wheel Milk Siphon. All that I seem to be able to find are RtR Siphon G and Siphon H stock, which are of completely the wrong time period. Does anyone know of any halfway sensible 4 or 6 wheel kits  to (I think) 'C' and/or articles bashing later outside frame Siphons.

Just for fun, attached is a photo of Maes y Coed - yes, I know! The Toad is also incorrect but that is a problem for another day.

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Rowan
Typo & additional information

[brossard]

Here's something:

 

http://petebevans.blogspot.com/2013/09/k-kits-gwr-low-siphon-completed.html

 

K's kits are pretty old and the material is white metal.  You may find one on the second hand market.

 

Also I see a D&S kit of the Dia 04.  These are etched brass. 

 

Found this:

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/281829/d_s_models_ds525_gwr_6_wheel_siphon_high_etched_brass_kit/stockdetail

 

Google 6 wheel milk siphon for more.

 

John

[Mikkel]

The K's kit was later made in plastic (initially with whitemetal underframe and later full plastic). The full plastic version is a much better bet than the whitemetal version. It can often be found on ebay, built or unbuilt. It represents the six-wheel diagram O1 (not the earlier 4-wheel O1, and not the O2 that it is sometimes assumed to be). It's not a perfect kit but I find it a decent enough representation - seen here on the right:

 

 

There is also the Dart/Shirescenes Siphon C (although not 6-wheel of course), which uses a Ratio chassis: https://www.dartcastings.co.uk/shire/S104.php. I found this a decent build. 

 

 

 

Then there are the MDF kits from Diagram 3D - these are body only: https://www.diagram3d.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=GW04-SO2.

 

A couple of modellers on here have built them. A weak point seems to be that the MDF can flex, but there may be ways around that.   Example of a build here: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/82047-traeth-mawr-building-the-station-mostly/?do=findComment&comment=4824532

 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Mikkel

[Steamport Southport]

The plastic K's kits come up regularly on eBay. One on there the other day for about a tenner BIN.

 

Would have bought it myself, but already got two of them and they are a bit early for me.

 

 

Jason

[cypherman]

Hi all,

Are these a K's kit.

[Steamport Southport]

Definitely.

 

One telling sign is the number. The one in the pack is 960 and obviously 906 is an anagram of that.

 

 

Jason

[Rowan]

Thanks to you all. I have a Dart/Shirescenes kit on order.

 

I am confused dot com (not difficult these days!) as to where the siphon is placed in a train. Some say it is simply added to the end of the train but, in a non-corridor train, this would seem to fly in the face of the safety rules, which required side lamps on the rearmost carriage/wagon. These lamps showed a white light forwards and a red one to the rear. In the event of part of the train becoming detached, the guard was required to swap one of these light round to show red from the driver's viewpoint in order to notify him of the problem. If the siphon is to the rear the brake carriage, how does the guard get to the rear of the siphon other than by giving a quick Indiana Jones impression?

[Miss Prism]

Siphons could be at the end or the front of a train. I've seen some pics with Siphons in the middle.

 

[osbornsmodels]

If anyone is interested we have this OO laser cut and engraved kit in development. Laser cut body ad chassis, metal wheels and 3d printed buffers. The current question is what couplings to provide and the kit is complete.

[osbornsmodels]

ideal companion

[osbornsmodels]

As some modellers are very wary of MDF, I should add only the chassis 'block' is made from (3mm) MDF, all the remaining wooden parts are high quality Finish laser micro ply ranging from 0.6mm for the footboards up to 0.85mm for the body parts

[Rowan]

32 minutes ago, osbornsmodels said:

If anyone is interested we have this OO laser cut and engraved kit in development. Laser cut body ad chassis, metal wheels and 3d printed buffers. The current question is what couplings to provide and the kit is complete.

My understand is, being rated as passenger stock, they would have been fitted with screw link couplings.

 

I believe I am being an AH! As the model is a prototype for production, I would respectfully suggest fitting a standard tension lock coupling but fixed in such a way it is easily removed. That way you satisfy the widest possible market. Personally, none of my stock has/will have tension lock couplings - I remove them to fit 3 link chain, instanter or screw link couplings as appropriate.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Rowan
correcting my misunderstanding of the original post.

[Rowan]

46 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

Siphons could be at the end or the front of a train. I've seen some pics with Siphons in the middle.

 

Using a bit of logic rather than knowledge, my preference is to place the siphon immediately behind the loco. I do not know whether this is correct to the prototype of 1910. Certainly, from childhood memories, they were at the rear but, by that time, the requirement for rear side lamps on passenger trains had been scrapped.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Rowan

[Miss Prism]

http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveries1/3701-stanley-baldwin-paddington-f-moore-coloured.jpg

 

[Siberian Snooper]

There are photos around that have almost complete trains consisting of 6 wheel siphons and at least one PBV. In fact I believe that the GW built at least one PBV specifically for milk traffic.

 

 

[osbornsmodels]

now released OCWW Arch Laser ALOO0020 1/76 Scale OO Gauge GWR Siphon C diag O 4 Kit (osbornsmodels.com) 

[cypherman]

On 03/10/2023 at 11:09, Rowan said:

My understand is, being rated as passenger stock, they would have been fitted with screw link couplings.

 

I believe I am being an AH! As the model is a prototype for production, I would respectfully suggest fitting a standard tension lock coupling but fixed in such a way it is easily removed. That way you satisfy the widest possible market. Personally, none of my stock has/will have tension lock couplings - I remove them to fit 3 link chain, instanter or screw link couplings as appropriate.

Hi,

I think you should fit NEM pockets and either a standard Bachmann or Hornby coupling. That would give people the option to swap couplings to the one they want.

[osbornsmodels]

NEM pockets fitted plus Dapol small tension lock NEM couplings

[Pete Haitch]

I just spoken to @osbornsmodels and been advised there's not really any movement on the middle axle so will need flanges removing on centre wheel to go around any curve of consequence.  A picture of one from beneath might help determine whether any other solution is possible. 

 

I've just purchased a set of these from Diagram3D to experiment with under a K's siphon. https://www.diagram3d.com/index.php?product_id=D3D-05 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Pete Haitch

[Siberian Snooper]

Have a look at Upper Hembury, East Devon-a GWR/SR Branch line, around page 8.

 

 

[amandalee]

My approach on a 3d printed Insixfish with approx the same wheel spacings, all 3 axles move sideways enough to go through med radius points etc. Planning to do similar to an early Siphon when time permits. I have a video of them running on youtube. 

[osbornsmodels]

Quote

I just spoken to @osbornsmodels and been advised there's not really any movement on the middle axle so will need flanges removing on centre wheel to go around any curve of consequence

Pete Haitch's concerns about traversing curves have now been addressed and a chassis modification now allows for sideways movement of the centre (still flanged) wheel but with a supported axle as the pinpoints on the middle axle are now removed. It now traverses 2nd radius happily. Hope that helps.

[osbornsmodels]

Quote

I just spoken to @osbornsmodels and been advised there's not really any movement on the middle axle so will need flanges removing on centre wheel to go around any curve of consequence

Pete Haitch's concerns about traversing curves have now been addressed and a chassis modification now allows for sideways movement of the centre (still flanged) wheel but with a supported axle as the pinpoints on the middle axle are now removed. It now traverses 2nd radius happily. Similar arrangement to that in the picture above from Amandalee but only on the centre axle. Hope that helps.

[Pete Haitch]

Well done @osbornsmodels for prompt response to this.

[Compound2632]

I'm currently* building the all plastic version of the K's kit. Having looked at it very carefully and also at published prototype info kindly provided by people on here, I'm planning to replace the axleguards / springs / axleboxes with MJT parts and make a single arc roof. I've already nibbled away at the eves framing that K's added for strength I suppose.

 

As a Midland rather than Great Western enthusiast, my inspiration is a c. 1900 photo of a train at Dote and Totley where the siphon is the second vehicle.

 

*As in, started but now in the paused pile!