Things that you've never seen on an exhibition layout but would love to see happen?

[t-b-g]

The exhibition layout of Grantham has plenty of loco changes and other more interesting operations going on.

 

Not on an exhibition layout but I have just finished a most enjoyable morning running session on Buckingham including the working of a slip coach at Grandborough Junction.

 

Another very common thing rarely modelled is a small through station, not necessarily a junction station, where passenger trains terminate. Again, there is plenty of that at Grandborough Junction and the running round, shunting the stock to another platform, with perhaps the loco going shed for coal and/or water just makes it really good fun to operate and to watch. Even detaching a horse box or a van from a passenger train and shunting it to a loading dock adds a great deal of operational interest.

 

Part of the problem is that the exhibition layout and the layout that is interesting to operate are seen by some as two very different types of layout.

 

So you get the "People just want to see lots of trains running and stopping and doing something with them slows it down" attitude.

 

To me, the best exhibition layouts, when the operators are keen, enthusiastic and want to put on a good show, manage both aspects.

 

 

[TEAMYAKIMA]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

Part of the problem is that the exhibition layout and the layout that is interesting to operate are seen by some as two very different types of layout.

 

From personal experience, I think that there is a lot of truth in that attitude - not 100% true, of course, but even so it can be very true - to an extent it depends on what demographic you are trying to please.

 

If there is a large 'general public' audience at a show then constant movement is what they want, but if the audience is dominated by serious railway enthusiasts then serious operation is called for. But, I think, serious railway operation can reach out to the general audience if it is explained to them and whilst cards and posters can work, nothing beats a front-of-house man explaining why things are happening as they are. Human interaction with the audience is very important if you want them to understand anything more than roundy-roundy operation - most of the general audience know nothing of a lot of what has been discussed here (slip coaches etc) and therefore they can't engage with it like a serious enthusiast can.

[Giles]

 

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

 

From personal experience, I think that there is a lot of truth in that attitude - not 100% true, of course, but even so it can be very true - to an extent it depends on what demographic you are trying to please.

 

If there is a large 'general public' audience at a show then constant movement is what they want, but if the audience is dominated by serious railway enthusiasts then serious operation is called for. But, I think, serious railway operation can reach out to the general audience if it is explained to them and whilst cards and posters can work, nothing beats a front-of-house man explaining why things are happening as they are. Human interaction with the audience is very important if you want them to understand anything more than roundy-roundy operation - most of the general audience know nothing of a lot of what has been discussed here (slip coaches etc) and therefore they can't engage with it like a serious enthusiast can.

 

Absolutely.

 

This expands on what I was saying about it being down very much to the people running the layout.

 

Some people just want to show off their layout at shows but have no real feel for operating.

 

Others will really put on a show and try to make it as interesting as possible for the viewer.

[The Johnster]

There has been a lot of progress in working cranes, handling equipment, tipplers, &c, and I am a big fan of it.  I'd like to see a pre-containerised dockside layout with everything  working; ships and tugs moving about, working locks and lock gates, swing and lifting bridges, cranes handling different types of cargo with hooks, nets, or grab buckets, floating cranes for big loads like locomotives, iron ore handling, working coal hoists end-tipping coal wagons into ships, mobile hoists and cranes moving about, tankers very slowly raising themselves in the water as the oil is pumped out, aggregate handling from dredgers with grab buckets and conveyor belts with a working dredger outside the sealock entrance, and of course plenty of railway activity.  Most of this is possible with current tech, but I haven't seen coal hoists or iron ore unloading attempted.  This was what Cardiff docks, well past their heyday then, were still like in the late 50s and early 60s; a constant visual feast of big boy's toys ('eavy engineering, lad, mens' work) in action going doing dat voodooing dat dey doing so well!  Wherever you looked, something was happening. Needs a lot of operators, though.

 

Another possibility is a complete MGR operation, showing the coal being loaded into the  slowly moving hoppers at the colliery processing loading plant, and then being hauled around to the other side of the layout where the hoppers discharge on the move into the power station coal bin.  This could in theory be automated and left to run by itself.

 

You don't need a huge layout to show slip coach operation, as there were places like Reading where the slip took place at low speed, about 40mph, close to the approach end of the up main platform.  If the slip guard got it right*, it would come to rest by the subway.  Another 'operating feature' would be TPO bag collection/drop, done crudely years ago by Triang and HD, but quite a challenge to do realistically (including the rocking of the collecting coach as several cwt of mail is fired across it into the opposite wall at 70-odd mph).

 

Working lit lamps with their own internal power supply.  Working coaling towers and ash disposal plants at sheds.  Actual delivery of water into tender and side tanks from water cranes and towers.  Picking up water from troughs and soaking the first coach?  Ok, nurse, I'll take the nice pills now...

 

 

*Drivers were very sniffy about guards' competence in such matters.

[newbryford]

I've always wondered if it would be possible to swap (working) tail lamps on trains, so that a red was always shown on the rear, but I think it would be a bit fiddly to do so without a huge HOG [*] intervention.

 

[*] Hand of God.

[BachelorBoy]

I'd like to see a pair of layouts, modelling the same location but in different eras.

[PaulRhB]

On 05/10/2023 at 18:50, OnTheBranchline said:

Maybe someone has done this before but it would be really cool to have a 'failed' engine replacement or just an 'engine switch' at a station rather than the locos running straight through or just normally stopping at the station.

As noted several layouts do and we have random cards to fail an engine. 

 

On 05/10/2023 at 20:29, KeithMacdonald said:

Burnham-On-Sea railway station.

With the lifeboat that was launched down the railway track along the pier.

https://www.burnham-on-sea.com/news/burnham-based-history-group-announces-programme-of-talks-for-coming-year/

There’s a 2mm f/s model of Burnham on Sea on the circuit although I’m not sure they actually launch the lifeboat. 

 

17 hours ago, Dunalastair said:

Vertical wagon hoist with wagon TTs and capstan shunting in an elevated goods shed with the roof off ...

 

As per 

 

I think it’s the Farnham club O gauge that has a working hoist on the front of the layout and capstan shunting is a feature on a few O gauge layouts. 

 

3 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

I'd like to see a pair of layouts, modelling the same location but in different eras.

Neuberg 2013 and 1913 by Jim Finlayson on here and was at Warley last year. 
 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by PaulRhB

[D9020 Nimbus]

13 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

I'd like to see a pair of layouts, modelling the same location but in different eras.

There are a couple of layouts featuring an RhB station in different time periods, which are often (but not always) seen together.

 

Also Elmwell Village Depot, which — on one layout — had a representation of the Wisbech & Upwell in four different time periods and four different seasons. The scenes were rotated into place. It featured in BRM many years ago.

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

There are a couple of layouts featuring an RhB station in different time periods, which are often (but not always) seen together.

 

Also Elmwell Village Depot, which — on one layout — had a representation of the Wisbech & Upwell in four different time periods and four different seasons. The scenes were rotated into place. It featured in BRM many years ago.

Chris Dack (I think) did a ‘four seasons pizza layout’ for the Dave Brewer Challenge once, featuring the same scene in each season (each took up a quarter of the circle).

[Halvarras]

On 05/10/2023 at 19:58, The White Rabbit said:

Re failed engines, I sometimes ran a DMU with a [Thunderbird] loco, simulating a failure.

 

Me too - I had two powered Lima bubble car conversions and put together another unpowered bubble car and a DTS to run with them. I would sometimes run the two unpowered vehicles together towed by a Class 22.

 

I say 'had' but I still have them. The layout hasn't been exhibited since late 2005 but I put so much effort into the late 1960s stock that parting with them is unthinkable!

[AY Mod]

19 hours ago, newbryford said:

I've always wondered if it would be possible to swap (working) tail lamps on trains, so that a red was always shown on the rear, but I think it would be a bit fiddly to do so without a huge HOG [*] intervention.

 

[*] Hand of God.

 

There's a special place in hell with your name on it.

[BoD]

Drivers (and secondmen) that can walk from one end of a diesel loco to the other when necessary.

Or at least disappear from one cab and reappear in the other.

Why have I suddenly started thinking about Scott and Virgil in Thunderbirds?

[PaulRhB]

7 minutes ago, BoD said:

Drivers (and secondmen) that can walk from one end of a diesel loco to the other when necessary.

Or at least disappear from one cab and reappear in the other.

Why have I suddenly started thinking about Scott and Virgil in Thunderbirds?

Seem this on some German diesels where a servo pops one up as it drops the other down. 
 

There’s a US layout where the drivers head is driven by a servo and he turns his head to the direction of travel. 

[009 micro modeller]

30 minutes ago, BoD said:

Drivers (and secondmen) that can walk from one end of a diesel loco to the other when necessary.

Or at least disappear from one cab and reappear in the other.

Why have I suddenly started thinking about Scott and Virgil in Thunderbirds?

Actually that’s reminded me of something I was thinking about earlier (while driving a narrow gauge battery electric train, a model of which would look good with this; this probably wouldn’t work quite as well for all locos) - what about a loco where the driver’s hand and the throttle lever/power control move when power is applied. And if it was really sophisticated the lever/driver’s hand would appear to push further at higher speeds. In large scales this might actually be viable but I don’t think I’ll be attempting it in 009.

[The Johnster]

Trouble with that idea is that somebody will then want him to move his hand about the place, to use the train or straight-air brake, turn the cab lights on and off, turn the heater on or off, open the side window, and operate the working windscreen wiper.  On a steam engine he has to be able to operate the regulator, (working/poseable) reverser, and steam & train brakes.  Fireman has to open/shut the firehole door, shovel coal into it, play with his pricker, and mess about with the injectors.  Where does it stop, driver & fireman getting off the loco and going over the pub with the guard?

[Jeepy]

A shunter in a yard pulling a point lever.....

[009 micro modeller]

10 hours ago, The Johnster said:

and operate the working windscreen wiper.

When the working rain starts?

[Hroth]

8 hours ago, Jeepy said:

A shunter in a yard pulling a point lever.....

 

Can't have that, figures in yards are there to indicate where the uncoupling magnets are!

 

[Hibelroad]

In the 80s the covers on platform fluorescent lamps at stations had the station names on them but sometimes they got mixed up, I’ve seen a Cheadle Hulme cover at Manchester Piccadilly. On a similar theme named luggage trolleys seem to go wandering and I’ve seen incorrect destination blinds on Pacers, especially when the Cornish ones moved to Manchester but I suppose thats more likely to happen anyway on a model. Little details which add life to a layout or start arguments at exhibitions. 

[Vecchio]

Interesting thread. I used to have a border layout - Italy -Austria so you had loco changes and also run around engines. Even now, at Donnersbachkogel I run around locos on the H0e end to end part, without the hand of God, but nobody of the viewers seems to notice that. Same with a moving watercrane and moving loco shed doors. Sometimes a layout with constant running trains, having only dummy points in the visible section, attracts more visitors than the complicated shunting moves.... 

[009 micro modeller]

9 hours ago, Jeepy said:

A shunter in a yard pulling a point lever.....

There have been layouts with a man pushing over skip wagons so I feel like this one might be possible, at least in larger scales.

[009 micro modeller]

49 minutes ago, Hibelroad said:

In the 80s the covers on platform fluorescent lamps at stations had the station names on them but sometimes they got mixed up, I’ve seen a Cheadle Hulme cover at Manchester Piccadilly. On a similar theme named luggage trolleys seem to go wandering and I’ve seen incorrect destination blinds on Pacers, especially when the Cornish ones moved to Manchester but I suppose thats more likely to happen anyway on a model. Little details which add life to a layout or start arguments at exhibitions. 

Similarly, some DMUs on the St Albans Abbey line apparently used to display various incorrect destinations, including Rock Ferry and Aberystwyth!

[Mallard60022]

Platforms where Passengers gradually arrive and increase in numbers, Train arrives, doors open etc. and there is getting off and getting on and then the Train departs with waving etc and then the opposite happens.

Or at the very least, a Passenger alights or embarks and Station Staff do their thing.

When I were a little un, I remember a Comic that had a boy named General Jumbo who had Radio Controlled Military stuff operated from a sort of Wrist Watch gismo. All very gung ho and 50s post War sort of thing, but hugely imaginative in what was still a rather Clockwork age and Triang Princesses and JIntys were just appearing IIRC?

There must be Technology now that could recreate active 'Passengers'?

As for a previous post, I've never seen a Slip Coach operated, but pleased to her there was one at some time.

One thing I thing would be possible in (say) 7mm, is actually Coaling on a Shed scene. I've seen a few really superb Loco Depots in 7mm and those Engines just make me really drool with envy. 

 

Incidentally, Hills of the North (DC) has a great Banking set up. I am still hoping to get to see that in action.

Phil

[Chris M]

All of the above is wonderful and aspirational. However, having been to an exhibition yesterday I have to set my desires a little lower. I would love to see the majority of layouts at a show running stock that was not straight out of the box and looking pristinely plastiky. Getting perhaps a tad picky I would love to see layouts that were not obviously some track laid on a flat board with some scenery put around it.

 

I totally support that people can build whatever layout they desire but some exhibition managers do need to make sure they have a good spread of layouts. Yes have some "I could do that" layouts to inspire newcomers but also have some "wow" layouts to make it worth modellers going to the show. Some of the smaller shows that I have been to this year have not been great; I'm thinking of not bothering with smaller shows at all in future. GETS at £15 will be far better value than a small show at £5.