BR Blue Class 17, What are my wagon options?

[IMM]

Hi all, I recently added an N gauge Class 17 in BR blue to the fleet, knowing their limited run time especially in BR blue what are my options for wagons and rolling stock that would maintain plausibility? 

[Mark Saunders]

The Leith General Warehouse grain hoppers were one of the outstanding wagons they ran around Edinburgh with.

[br2975]

You may wish to conduct some personal, historical research by viewing Flickr and possibly some relevant Facebook Groups (should you be a FB user).

[DOCJACOB]

9 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

The Leith General Warehouse grain hoppers were one of the outstanding wagons they ran around Edinburgh with.

A number of images of the above service on the Edinburgh Suburban line are on Railscot now Railbrit I believe. 

[black and decker boy]

They were all gone by December 1971 so there would be little change in rolling stock from Green (which most still carried) - so steam eta vacuum & unfitted wagons. A lot of 16t mineral wagons around central Scotland. The LGW grain wagons mentioned above. 12T box wagons etc

 

loads of photos online.

 

there is also a book on the 17s

https://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/The-Clayton-Type-1-Bo-Bo-Diesel-Electric-Locomotives-British-Railways-Class-17-Hardback/p/18826

[Boris]

A quick image search round Yahoo shows the usual suspects, 16 ton mineral wagons and a variety of 12 ton box vans.  As previously mentioned the LGW wagons are a good choice hanging around very late for 19th century wagons, there is at least one photo of a Clayton with about 10 of these as well.

 

 

[scottystitch]

22 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

They were all gone by December 1971 so there would be little change in rolling stock from Green (which most still carried) - so steam eta vacuum & unfitted wagons. A lot of 16t mineral wagons around central Scotland. The LGW grain wagons mentioned above. 12T box wagons etc

 

loads of photos online.

 

there is also a book on the 17s

https://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/The-Clayton-Type-1-Bo-Bo-Diesel-Electric-Locomotives-British-Railways-Class-17-Hardback/p/18826

This one also has many images of them at work:

 

https://www.mdsbooks.co.uk/railway-books/an-illustrated-historical-review-of-the-clayton-type-1-bo-bo.html

 

Best

Scott.

[Derek 19B]

https://www.keymodelworld.com/article/clayton-type-1s-class-history

 

Have a look at key model some good photos, basic.y 66 to 72 end of steam.

Steel wagons and coal wagons in Yorkshire.

My uncle driver at Tinsley like the 17s as long as he had two so he could get home . 

[Flying Pig]

The Leith General Warehousing wagons were made for Harburn Hobbies by Peco and are still advertised:

 

https://www.harburnhobbies.co.uk/acatalog/Peco-NR-P151C-Peak--Roof-Wagon--Leith-general-Warehousing-No.168--5520-1.html

 

For liveries, your period is Era 6, but BR did not repaint wagons often so Era 4 or 5 would be ok provided the vehicle type was still in service (e.g. avoid wooden coal wagons).

 

The variety of wagons suitable for your era that have been produced over recent years in N is actually quite large, though you may have difficulty finding the ones you want new as batches tend to be small and quite infrequent.

 

[montyburns56]

You could replicate the Test trains that ran along the Styal Loop with a RTC coach in tow.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by montyburns56

[IMM]

Thank you much for the replies guys! I've made the attached selections based on them and the availability of being pre weathered. I didn't mess it up too horrifically right?

[keefer]

5 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

You could replicate the Test trains that ran along the Styal Loop with a RTC coach in tow.

 

 

Notice the tablet-catcher recess has come in handy for keeping the extra pipework in gauge! Presumably into a control unit for the system under test/development (mentioned in the Flickr comments).

Pipework seems to be connected to the air-brake pipe on the bufferbeam, the system  maybe a new form of AWS.

Edited October 6, 2023 by keefer

[Flying Pig]

13 hours ago, IMM said:

Thank you much for the replies guys! I've made the attached selections based on them and the availability of being pre weathered. I didn't mess it up too horrifically right?

 

You have

• a BR standard van (fine, very numerous)
• two BR insulated vans (much less numerous but still correct)
• a Midland or early LMS brake van 

The brake van seems a bit antique, but as Paul Bartlett's photos show them in departmental use 10-15 years after your period, perhaps there were still a few in traffic?

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hi there,

 

Although your Class 17 is blue all were withdrawn by 1971 so there was crossover of liveries to the end.  

 

Revolution Trains sturgeon wagon:

https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/19/442/

 

Farish BR brakevan:

 

Farish brake van again; Revolution Trains Class B tankers behind, though I don't know if the Clayton was collecting any!

 

 

Farish minerals:

 

They had such a short service life (5-odd years?) that there aren't that many photos online. 

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

[D9020 Nimbus]

Depends which area of the country you're interested in. In NE England, they often appeared on shortish trains of 21t hoppers, and they were also used on pick-up goods trains. They appeared in the latter role on the Alnwick branch in its last days.

 

As well as a lot of other types, they feature in David Cross' The Heyday of the Scottish Diesels.

[Antony Jenkinson]

'IMM',

Hello!

There were some blue liveried Class 17s working from Carnforth from June 1968 - the 'Claytons' worked the Windermere branch freight for a short time in 1968 after 'the end of steam'.

The wagons conveyed would be predominantly 16 ton steel mineral wagons and 'vanfits', plus perhaps 'conflats and 'monobloc' tanks (to Kendal)  and (the small 13 ton) hoppers (to Burneside).

Have a look at the Cumbrian Railways Association 'Zenfolio' site for this image:- https://cumbrianrailways.zenfolio.com/p855915581

Best Wishes from Tony (from Morecambe)

 

[Halvarras]

I would really like some (4) OO gauge 'Leith General Warehousing' (LGW) peak-roofed wagons to run behind my blue Heljan OO Clayton Class 17, that really appeals. Good news then - Dapol make them. Bad news - they've used the salt wagon instead of the more suitable if still not perfect lime wagon (which has roof hatches and no side handrails) and painted them bright red instead of brown. Cheap unpainted Dapol lime wagons are available and there is a manufacturer who make the required transfers, but 8 months after ordering I'm still awaiting delivery. RMweb regulars will know who I'm referring to but let's not annoy the Mods by going there yet again 🥴

 

I suppose I could try writing to Dapol to see if I could persuade them to use the more appropriate wagon body in the more appropriate colour for future releases. After all, Peco managed to do it right in N gauge........

[w124bob]

The Styal line was used for an early form of cab signalling, nick named wiggily wire. The class 17 was in the area for a few weeks with the test coach, the white conduit was linked to equipment just behind the buffer beam. The disconnected wiggly wire were still in situ in some places south of Wilmslow long after the testing finished. There are two good books on these locos too.

[Steven B]

Coal train at Newcastle, c. 1970:

 

 

 

Using it as an industrial shunter is an option. The sole survivor went into industrial use, firstly at Hemelite block works near Hemel Hempstead and later at Clitheroe's cement works.

 

Steven B.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Steven B

[Will Crompton]

There is a relevant picture in 'Rail freight since 1968: Wagonload' by Paul Shannon (Silver Link Publishing Ltd, 2006). It is credited to  J.H. Cooper-Smith and is on page 15. It shows a Clayton passing Newcastle with a northbound trip freight working on May 4 1971. It's rather interesting as the first vehicle in the consist is a MK1 GUV. This is followed by three conflats carrying land rovers. Behind I can make out  a couple of hoppers, some opens and some vans.

[NBL]

On 08/10/2023 at 03:12, Halvarras said:

I would really like some (4) OO gauge 'Leith General Warehousing' (LGW) peak-roofed wagons to run behind my blue Heljan OO Clayton Class 17, that really appeals. Good news then - Dapol make them. Bad news - they've used the salt wagon instead of the more suitable if still not perfect lime wagon (which has roof hatches and no side handrails) and painted them bright red instead of brown. Cheap unpainted Dapol lime wagons are available and there is a manufacturer who make the required transfers, but 8 months after ordering I'm still awaiting delivery. RMweb regulars will know who I'm referring to but let's not annoy the Mods by going there yet again 🥴

 

I suppose I could try writing to Dapol to see if I could persuade them to use the more appropriate wagon body in the more appropriate colour for future releases. After all, Peco managed to do it right in N gauge........

Parkside kit PC51 is much more accurate than the Dapol lime wagon.

 

Still leaves you with the issue of finding the transfers though.

[Halvarras]

1 hour ago, NBL said:

Parkside kit PC51 is much more accurate than the Dapol lime wagon.

 

Still leaves you with the issue of finding the transfers though.

 

Agreed, although when I did a scan for stock all the retailers showing any seemed to have only one - I want four but baulk at paying four lots of postage!

 

Right now a letter with supporting paperwork is on its way to........the transfer manufacturer, since this now seems to be the only method of communication still open - I don't want to jump the queue he claims he's working his way through, I just want to make sure I'm in it, as I've had no feedback since mid-February when my order was allegedly being processed..........but that was at the height of his troubles. Fortunately I'm in no rush for them, but won't buy the wagons until I have the transfers in my sticky mitts, as I have no other use for them. Wish me luck then 😬 and who knows, by the time I receive the transfers (optimist!) maybe I could obtain four PC51s from a single source.......

[luckymucklebackit]

In the late 60s, D8500 was kept in pristine BR blue and used on ECS workings between Glasgow Central and Larkfield Carraige Depot.  They were also used as bankers on Shap for a short while.

 

Jim

[stovepipe]

10 hours ago, luckymucklebackit said:

They were also used as bankers on Shap for a short while.

 

This being the only photo I've seen of one actually doing some banking.

 

 

[scottishlocos]

Hi

 

TTA tankers would also be an option for haulage by class 17 and bogie bolsters with pipes.