Heljan Class 44 Peak for OO

[adb968008]

Is it just me wondering whats wrong with the Bachmann one ?

Bachmann have done loads of 44’s.

 

I wasnt impressed with the blue on the Heljan 45/1 and well, that was that for me really.

 

I can see why they chose to carry on the peak theme, both models are equal so nothing to upgrade imo.

for me the only thing in that game is a sealed beam class 46, first past the post gets it.

 

 

 

[97406]

10 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Is it just me wondering whats wrong with the Bachmann one ?

Bachmann have done loads of 44’s.

 

I wasnt impressed with the blue on the Heljan 45/1 and well, that was that for me really.

 

I can see why they chose to carry on the peak theme, both models are equal so nothing to upgrade imo.

for me the only thing in that game is a sealed beam class 46, first past the post gets it.

 

 

 

 

The Bachmann one is missing the chassis detail such as the bogie pivots which are quite fiddly to add on a Peak compared to a 40. These are modelled on the Heljan one, but as mentioned yesterday, the clincher for me will be the windscreens. 

[No Decorum]

16 hours ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

Well, that and most of us remembering when they were right at the front of the Ian Allen books just a couple of years earlier:

1 Scafell Pike

2 Helvellyn...

 

It was a rite of passage to get that first one crossed off (which I'm pretty sure I managed while it was still number one). Far more impressive machines than the small black shunters that replaced them at the top of the list. And yes, I did make that long walk out to Holyhead Breakwater.

OT. Holyhead Breakwater? That’s a tiny gap in the diesel line up.

[Jeremy Cumberland]

11 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

OT. Holyhead Breakwater? That’s a tiny gap in the diesel line up.

Yes, I've sometimes wondered why it's been missed, since being first in the book for so many years they had an importance in the minds of many railway enthusiasts that was out of all proportion to their diminutive size and isolated location.

 

Obviously the Henry Ford livery options aren't what manufacturers look for these days, but the combination of TOPS numbers and early crest black is probably unique, and I expect it would attract a fair number of Rule 1 purchases. In fact, why not buy two? You can keep one of them at the back of the shed.

[jjb1970]

If Heljan improve the upper profile to address criticism of the 45 this will be an excellent model. That said, the Bachmann model is also very good so no need to replace with a newer example IMO. I think AS hit the target with their Deltic as one of the few existing models with potential to make a big enough improvement to make upgrading worthiness. If I look at most of my BR D&E models now the ones I have are at a point where I really see no need to upgrade. Additions yes, replacements no.

[Hal Nail]

I know people have got very worked up about the cab door but I think its a total red herring - if anything starting the roof curve from lower down will make the cab windows even worse. It is the line of the gutter which the windows follow that is impacting on the appearance - in the CAD it stays level as it rounds the corner then has to rise sharply to compensate.

 

(I'm not saying the door/curve issue doesn't exist, just that I don't think that's what is making it all look slightly wrong)

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Hal Nail

[97406]

36 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

I know people have got very worked up about the cab door but I think its a total red herring - if anything starting the roof curve from lower down will make the cab windows even worse. It is the line of the gutter which the windows follow that is impacting on the appearance - in the CAD it stays level as it rounds the corner then has to rise sharply to compensate.

 

(I'm not saying the door/curve issue doesn't exist, just that I don't think that's what is making it all look slightly wrong)

 

 

 

 

Following on from what Ben said yesterday, I’m thinking the CAD may not be the latest version as the outer windscreens still taper more than the prototype. The top and bottom edges working out from the dividing bars are almost parallel on the real thing as opposed to the more pronounced taper evident on the mockup. I’ll wait and see what the actual model looks like.

[Downendian]

Well I may go for 44010 Tryfan - nice to see the heavy grilles being modelled. I’d also like to see 44009 with its replacement centre headcode box at some point, I’d bet on many 1970s era modellers bucket list to do. I’ve built one, using Pete Harvey etches for the grilles and Bachmann 46 replacement cabs. However, schoolboy error in that I omitted to include the body framing behind the grilles which definitely needs redoing now. Heljan could have saved me that job, but plod on with it eventually I will.

 

44s were real highlights of the day when you saw them- especially “out in the wild”, my first one was 44005 at Washwood heath on my first trip to York, plus others seen at Burton on Trent, Peterborough and March in the late 70s. Most of course were stabled at Toton over the weekend. Somehow 44001 eluded me though. 
 

Neil 

[GordonC]

The CAD looks like too straight an edge along the top of the outer windscreens when the prototype looks like more of a gradual curve. The guttering above looks like its at 3 angles too rather than a smooth curve.

 

It just doesn't look right to me if thats how the model is going to turn out

[andyman7]

Like @Downendian I'd be interested in 44010 because of the side grille arrangement. As I've got older and the 70s/80s become more distant I find I'm very taken by the 'personalities' of the classic diesel fleet and like to have versions that reflect these. It's only relatively recently that the RTR manufacturers have really got under the teeth of these rather than just sticking a number on the side that pertains to the general outline of the model. 

For that reason in addition to by Bachmann 45s I have a couple of Heljan ETH examples, one with and one without the high intensity headlight, as the Bachmann model does not reflect these characteristics.

[Halvarras]

2 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

I know people have got very worked up about the cab door but I think its a total red herring - if anything starting the roof curve from lower down will make the cab windows even worse. It is the line of the gutter which the windows follow that is impacting on the appearance - in the CAD it stays level as it rounds the corner then has to rise sharply to compensate.

 

(I'm not saying the door/curve issue doesn't exist, just that I don't think that's what is making it all look slightly wrong)

 

 

 

 

 

I did think when I saw the opening announcement that these two images illustrate the windscreen problem perfectly, and nearly posted something to this effect, but Ben's acknowledgement of the issue arrived just in time so I backed off, as it's all been said before!

 

I've recently bought another Bachmann 'Peak', D186 in weathered blue, which reminded me how 'shallow' the bogie sideframe detail is - Mainline did it better over 40 years ago! Heljan's bogie detail also surpasses Bachmann's efforts in this area - a big, heavy diesel locomotive needs big, heavy springs and axleboxes to support it 😉!

[97406]

39 minutes ago, Halvarras said:

Heljan's bogie detail also surpasses Bachmann's efforts in this area - a big, heavy diesel locomotive needs big, heavy springs and axleboxes to support it 😉

 

 

 

There’s exactly the same issue with the 40. They retooled it and got the dimensions pretty much spot on but kept the old bogie frames. Weathering them helps.

[brushman47544]

1 hour ago, Halvarras said:

I've recently bought another Bachmann 'Peak', D186 in weathered blue, which reminded me how 'shallow' the bogie sideframe detail is - Mainline did it better over 40 years ago! Heljan's bogie detail also surpasses Bachmann's efforts in this area - a big, heavy diesel locomotive needs big, heavy springs and axleboxes to support it 😉!

Whilst I agree with you about the shallowness of the sideframe detail, that area was either black (so dark and difficult to see detail) or heavily weathered so for me much less of an issue. On the other hand body details errors stand out under all conditions and I personally can't get past those incorrect cab windows.

[Hal Nail]

2 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 it's all been said before!

I read Ben's response that these CADs already incorporate the changes.

 

So worth saying again!

[jjb1970]

11 hours ago, Downendian said:

44s were real highlights of the day when you saw them- especially “out in the wild”, my first one was 44005 at Washwood heath on my first trip to York, plus others seen at Burton on Trent, Peterborough and March in the late 70s. Most of course were stabled at Toton over the weekend. Somehow 44001 eluded me though. 
 

Neil 

 

The 44/45/46 family were my favourite diesels in my train spotting days. Sadly I never saw a 44 in the wild, 45's were semi-regulars in Carlisle when I was spotting in the 80's, they weren't common but neither were they especially rare and a visit from one always made my day. They had a real presence and I thought them the best looking of the bull nose designs. So I have a special affection for them in model form.

[brushman47544]

On 22/11/2023 at 16:38, Hal Nail said:

I read Ben's response that these CADs already incorporate the changes.

 

So worth saying again!

Then why show a CAD (as in the announcement) where it's still clearly wrong?

[peteskitchen]

Not that many years ago there were many gaps in the classes of diesels available, and the likes of kit manufacturers filled the gaps for the skilled. Now wind forwards to the present and the market is so flooded with manufacturers that what I'd call fringe models are now getting duplicated. I imagine these will end up in the bargain basement after a few years. It happens! 

Edited November 25, 2023 by peteskitchen

[w124bob]

Nothing for me in the first run but with such a small fleet and Heljan's habit of doing several liveries in future production runs it won't be long before a green FYE comes along.

[w124bob]

Worth noting too that in as built condition the class were MU fitted and had 4 sand boxes per bogie, the MU stuff was removed fairly quickly but the sand boxes lingered into the mid/late 60's. D1 retained the boxes in 1967 but they were gone by 1969.

MU gear is easy to add if Heljan miss it off, but I hope they notice the sand box variation. Hopefully they'll pick this up and make it a pop off item on the green SYE variations.

Good gallery here

https://www.flickr.com/photos/35296891@N07/galleries/72157706515707581/with/5550263204/

[61661]

On 26/11/2023 at 19:56, w124bob said:

Worth noting too that in as built condition the class were MU fitted and had 4 sand boxes per bogie, the MU stuff was removed fairly quickly but the sand boxes lingered into the mid/late 60's. D1 retained the boxes in 1967 but they were gone by 1969.

The model has been designed so that earlier locos have MW equipment and, as with the Class 45s, the sandboxes for the inner ends of the bogies are in the bag of optional detail parts and can be quickly and easily added if you need them. There are lots of little differences from the 45s that have been incorporated on the new 44 tooling - and quite a few differences even among the 10 locos that we have built into the tooling. 
Windscreens have been reshaped in response to feedback about the 45s as has the curve at the top of the cab doors. 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ben

 

[GordonC]

1 hour ago, 61661 said:

The model has been designed so that earlier locos have MW equipment and, as with the Class 45s, the sandboxes for the inner ends of the bogies are in the bag of optional detail parts and can be quickly and easily added if you need them. There are lots of little differences from the 45s that have been incorporated on the new 44 tooling - and quite a few differences even among the 10 locos that we have built into the tooling. 
Windscreens have been reshaped in response to feedback about the 45s as has the curve at the top of the cab doors. 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ben

 

 

is the CAD image from before or after reshaping the windscreens?

 

[PieGuyRob]

3 hours ago, 61661 said:

The model has been designed so that earlier locos have MW equipment and, as with the Class 45s, the sandboxes for the inner ends of the bogies are in the bag of optional detail parts and can be quickly and easily added if you need them. There are lots of little differences from the 45s that have been incorporated on the new 44 tooling - and quite a few differences even among the 10 locos that we have built into the tooling. 
Windscreens have been reshaped in response to feedback about the 45s as has the curve at the top of the cab doors. 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ben

 

Will 44009 have a four character headcode box at the number one end?

Edited November 28, 2023 by PieGuyRob

[61661]

35 minutes ago, PieGuyRob said:

Will 44009 have a four character headcode box at the number one end?

The model of D9 (not 44009) is pre-crash with standard ends. 

[61661]

2 hours ago, GordonC said:

 

is the CAD image from before or after reshaping the windscreens?

 

The CAD image is the current state of play but I’ve asked our designer to look at it again. 

[PieGuyRob]

23 hours ago, 61661 said:

The model of D9 (not 44009) is pre-crash with standard ends. 

Ok thank you for that. Will you be tooling D9 post crash modification?