Non Tablet Catcher fitted Stock : Could they work on Tablet areas?

[Blobrick]

I ve been doing some research on the GNSR web site, (good site, well worth a visit) and noticed that almost all the diesel locos featured therein have Tablet Catcher equipment or the recess in the cab side for the provision of such equipment if required. I noted there were a fair few photos of BR class 105 Craven type two car DMUs featured, but l could see no provision on the 105 body work for Tablet Catcher equipment.  How did these units operate on tablet worked branches? Was the token passed manually when working these units, and via Tablet equipment for other suitably fitted stock? 

 

Bob C

[LMS2968]

The tablet catchers allowed the tablets to be picked up and given up at a higher speed; their absence meant that the train had to run slower or even stop during the exchange. They also made the exchanges safer. Their lack made them inconvenient but still possible.

Edited December 22, 2023 by LMS2968

[adb968008]

Ive been on several single track lines without tablet catchers and viewed both on board and from signal boxes…

 

They do it the old fashioned way… signaller holds his hand out to give or recieve the pouch, and the driver does the same.

 

one one occasion the driver missed grabbing it from the signalman, in Rainford.. the signalman I was with said, tough he missed it, he’ll have to walk back, and simply waited for the driver to stop, climb out the unit, walk a few coach lengths back to pick up.

 

Last time I went through Rainford, in 2021 it was still using tokens/pouches to/from kirkby.

[Compound2632]

50 minutes ago, Blobrick said:

I noted there were a fair few photos of BR class 105 Craven type two car DMUs featured, but l could see no provision on the 105 body work for Tablet Catcher equipment. 

 

Was it the case that these units worked all-station stopping services, i.e. no occasion for exchange of tablet at speed?

[Blobrick]

35 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Was it the case that these units worked all-station stopping services, i.e. no occasion for exchange of tablet at speed?

I had wondered the same, these services were stopping already so not really an issue as far as time was concerned 

[johnofwessex]

On the S&D there were specific bell codes for non catcher fitted locomotives so the signalman could be ready with a pouch at the lineside.

 

I understand that Bath had a stock of catchers that could be fitted to any loco's they got their hands on at busy periods leaving the owning shed to wonder why holes had appeared in the cabside of their loco.

 

 

[Wickham Green too]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

... … signaller holds his hand out to give or receive the pouch, and the driver does the same. ...

... as nicely demonstrated by the signalman and fireman in a slide I conveniently scanned the other day !

Horsted Keynes, 22/8/98

[Rivercider]

Here is a 'dropped catch' taking place at Blue Anchor.

The dropped token fell between the train and platform, and took some time to be recovered. Then a signal failure further along the line meant delay at Crowcombe Heathfield until well after dark.  29/10/2017

 

cheers

[Cwmtwrch]

14 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

I understand that Bath had a stock of catchers that could be fitted to any loco's they got their hands on at busy periods leaving the owning shed to wonder why holes had appeared in the cabside of their loco.

S & D catchers were normally fitted to the tender rather than the loco, occasionally on both sides. If I remember some long-ago reading correctly [not guaranteed], the temporary version was clamped onto the the tender handrail.

[Compound2632]

6 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

S & D catchers were normally fitted to the tender rather than the loco, occasionally on both sides. If I remember some long-ago reading correctly [not guaranteed], the temporary version was clamped onto the the tender handrail.

 

And, I think, never fitted to diesels or DMUs of any kind, unlike the GNoS ones mentioned in the OP. Were any diesels fitted with the G&SWR type?

[Cwmtwrch]

 

 

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

And, I think, never fitted to diesels or DMUs of any kind

Not on the S & D as far as I know, but Whitaker apparatus was also used in East Anglia.

 

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Were any diesels fitted with the G&SWR type?

 

The ScR certainly had both EE type 1s and BRCW/Sulzer type 2s with tablet catcher recesses, and the HR used the G&SWR system.

 

https://www.lmssociety.org.uk/topics/singleLineWorking1.php may be of interest. Part 1 is the general intro, Part 2 deals with the G&SWR Manson type, Part 3 deals with the Whitaker type, and part 4 with the Bryson type [a modification of Manson's version].

[Southernman46]

ISTR certain Class 26's also had plated over cab door windows to prevent caught tablets swinging back and smashing the window glass.

[stewartingram]

Some of our E.Anglia dmus had 'rubber' plates fitted behind the drivers door to lessen bodyside damage.

[Steamport Southport]

43106 still has the recesses on it's tender from the time it worked on the ex M&GNR.

 

https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/43106-2/

 

 

 

Jason

[DCB]

You don't really need a tablet catcher for stopping passenger trains but for expresses and fast freights the increased speed of exchange can mean big savings in time and coal consumption, might even be the difference between stalling and getting over a summit,  The MGNR had seasonal non stopping ( I hesitate to use the word "Express" ) trains  Northern Scotland has a lot of medium steep long gradients  hence the GNSR had no 0-6-0 tender engines as it was boiler power not adhesion which restricted goods train weight and their profits were heavily weighted to whisky and fish, Fast Freight.  The Highland was pretty similar with 4-6-0 goods locos.     The Somerset and Dorset had detachable tablet catchers which could be fitted to "Standard LMS locos ( tender handrails?) probably 2P 4F and Black 5 borrowed for summer extras etc.  Possibly also Bulleids?  

[Tom Burnham]

My photos of diesel loco tablet catchers on the Further North line -

Wick 1968 -

 

Thurso 1973 -

 

[Blobrick]

On 24/12/2023 at 01:18, DCB said:

You don't really need a tablet catcher for stopping passenger trains but for expresses and fast freights the increased speed of exchange can mean big savings in time and coal consumption, might even be the difference between stalling and getting over a summit,  The MGNR had seasonal non stopping ( I hesitate to use the word "Express" ) trains  Northern Scotland has a lot of medium steep long gradients  hence the GNSR had no 0-6-0 tender engines as it was boiler power not adhesion which restricted goods train weight and their profits were heavily weighted to whisky and fish, Fast Freight.  The Highland was pretty similar with 4-6-0 goods locos.     The Somerset and Dorset had detachable tablet catchers which could be fitted to "Standard LMS locos ( tender handrails?) probably 2P 4F and Black 5 borrowed for summer extras etc.  Possibly also Bulleids?  

 

 

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this discussion, its has helped my understanding a great deal.   As l now see it there is no impediment to a non token fitted loco operating on a token area. Its more of an operational convenience to operate token fitted locos as it speeds up the exchange process. It would explain why l ve had difficulties in finding photos of non token locos working on token fitted areas. So far l ve only found one photo of a non token fitted class 26 (D5307 64B) working a freight on the Ballater branch in the mid 1960s

 

Cheers

Bob C

On 24/12/2023 at 01:18, DCB said:

You don't really need a tablet catcher for stopping passenger trains but for expresses and fast freights the increased speed of exchange can mean big savings in time and coal consumption, might even be the difference between stalling and getting over a summit,  The MGNR had seasonal non stopping ( I hesitate to use the word "Express" ) trains  Northern Scotland has a lot of medium steep long gradients  hence the GNSR had no 0-6-0 tender engines as it was boiler power not adhesion which restricted goods train weight and their profits were heavily weighted to whisky and fish, Fast Freight.  The Highland was pretty similar with 4-6-0 goods locos.     The Somerset and Dorset had detachable tablet catchers which could be fitted to "Standard LMS locos ( tender handrails?) probably 2P 4F and Black 5 borrowed for summer extras etc.  Possibly also Bulleids?  

 

[PerthBox]

On 22/12/2023 at 18:28, Blobrick said:

I ve been doing some research on the GNSR web site, (good site, well worth a visit) and noticed that almost all the diesel locos featured therein have Tablet Catcher equipment or the recess in the cab side for the provision of such equipment if required. I noted there were a fair few photos of BR class 105 Craven type two car DMUs featured, but l could see no provision on the 105 body work for Tablet Catcher equipment.  How did these units operate on tablet worked branches? Was the token passed manually when working these units, and via Tablet equipment for other suitably fitted stock? 

 

Bob C

The Cravens units used on the Aberdeen - Inverness line didn’t have tablet catchers but the class 120 Swindon units did. This was mounted within the guards van door and the guard was responsible for the exhange, there being a special buzzer code to communicate a successful exchange to the driver. 
 

There’s a photo of the equipment on the railcar.co.uk page for the class - 

 

https://www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-120/description

 

Edit - and here’s another - https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/19229

Edited December 26, 2023 by PerthBox

[Matt37268]

On 25/12/2023 at 17:53, Tom Burnham said:

My photos of diesel loco tablet catchers on the Further North line -

Wick 1968 -

 

Thurso 1973 -

 

I’m going to sound like a complete numpty now but how was it operated? I’m guessing that lever by the cab door was operated by the second man? 

[PerthBox]

15 hours ago, Matt37268 said:

I’m going to sound like a complete numpty now but how was it operated? I’m guessing that lever by the cab door was operated by the second man? 

The tablet catcher is located under the driver’s window. There was a lever by the driver’s left knee which operated a simple mechanical linkage to lower and raise the catcher. 

[pH]

The lines from Girvan and Dumfries to Stranraer had Bryson equipment during WW2 and for some time after.  (Dumfries to Stranraer had had Manson equipment earlier, but that had been taken out of use.). The ‘catchers’ on the locomotives were portable, and fitted on to a bracket on the cabside. David L Smith writes that they were just too portable and could be nicked off another engine by a crew needing one for a run to Stranraer. From “The Jubilee 4-6-0s” by Ray Townsin, at least 62 Jubilees had brackets fitted at some time and so could have a catcher mounted and then exchange tablets using the Bryson equipment on these lines. At least 20 Crewe North engines were fitted with brackets, since there was a wartime Crewe North diagram which took a Jubilee to Stranraer with a Euston-Stranraer boat train , returning the next night with the up train. In the meantime, the engine had done a return Stranraer-Glasgow trip.