A pox on Microsoft!

[Hroth]

UIs are designed by younguns who think that tablet and phone UIs and "apps" are cool and the way everyone works.

 

Personally, I don't use a desktop like that at all, and tend to try and make Android tablets work the way I usually work.  As for particular Android* apps, the current iteration of Firefox is driving me up the wall.  It just doesn't work right!  I want it to open on a homepage of my choosing....

 

* As for iPads, etc, I wouldn't use one if someone gave it to me for free.

 

Edited January 12 by Hroth

[whart57]

On 12/01/2024 at 15:56, MJI said:

Problem is they keep changing stuff.

 

I liked of all things 98 OSR2 as i could happily multitask stuff in dos.

 

Also dislike windows servers, slow and unreliable compared to netware

 

Netware? That's a blast from the past.

[MJI]

28 minutes ago, whart57 said:

 

Netware? That's a blast from the past.

 

I loved it, running client server with dos executables using ipx coms.

 

Printer queues easy.

 

I still hate ms for breaking the netware client weekly with xp.

[57xx]

On 12/01/2024 at 19:17, Hroth said:

UIs are designed by younguns who think that tablet and phone UIs and "apps" are cool and the way everyone works.

 

It's actually dictated by the execs and far from new. They call it "mobile first" (along with their "cloud first" push to get people onto a continuous revenue stream they call subscriptions). They have a bizarre vision of people doing their work sat in a sunny Californian park with their mates, using their mobile phone. I have never and would never use my phone to do anything on Azure Portal. It's bad enough trying to type a text without fat finger syndrome kicking in, let alone doing something that could affect the whole company's ability to operate.

Edited January 14 by 57xx

[rdeas]

I converted all of our windows computers to Linux Mint over 18 months ago and would never go back.

 

The machines (Dell and HP)  run much faster, the operating system is totally stable, it doesn't spy on you or force unwanted updates, and it's FREE!!!.

 

Richard D

Edited January 14 by rdeas

[Reorte]

7 minutes ago, rdeas said:

I converted all of our windows computers to Linux Mint over 18 months ago and would never go back.

 

The machines (Dell and HP)  run much faster, the operating system is totally stable, it doesn't spy on you or force unwanted updates, and it's FREE!!!.

I'd ditch Windows in a second if I didn't use it for games.

[rdeas]

I'm not a gamer, but this article may be useful to you....

 

https://itsfoss.com/linux-gaming-guide/

 

Richard D

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, rdeas said:

I'm not a gamer, but this article may be useful to you....

 

https://itsfoss.com/linux-gaming-guide/

It sums up why I'm stuck with Windows. You can get a fair amount going with Linux but not all.

 

I've got a spare machine knocking around that I keep meaning to install Linux on and see what I can get to work but I don't expect it's "everything."

Edited January 14 by Reorte

[Hroth]

3 hours ago, 57xx said:

It's bad enough trying to type a text without fat finger syndrome kicking in, let alone doing something that could affect the whole company's ability to operate.

 

Imagine if Fujitsu had implemented Horizon on iPads for post offices.

 

[whart57]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

 

Imagine if Fujitsu had implemented Horizon on iPads for post offices.

 

 

I sometimes wonder what if an IT-savvy minister in the New Labour governments of the noughties had standardised government systems on Linux, using someone like Red Hat to provide a government-flavoured distro with appropriate security, management and other stuff to use around the civil service, whether we'd have the systems promised for the NHS and the like by now. Instead of being amazed at the PC in the nurses' station still being booted up into Windows XP. Or would MS' lobbyists have got him sacked in the first reshuffle.

[MJI]

4 hours ago, Reorte said:

I'd ditch Windows in a second if I didn't use it for games.

I use a comsole, no windows there

[MJI]

59 minutes ago, whart57 said:

 

I sometimes wonder what if an IT-savvy minister in the New Labour governments of the noughties had standardised government systems on Linux, using someone like Red Hat to provide a government-flavoured distro with appropriate security, management and other stuff to use around the civil service, whether we'd have the systems promised for the NHS and the like by now. Instead of being amazed at the PC in the nurses' station still being booted up into Windows XP. Or would MS' lobbyists have got him sacked in the first reshuffle.

Sacked i reckon.

 

Big businesses have too much influence.

[30801]

1 hour ago, whart57 said:

a government-flavoured distro with appropriate security, management and other stuff

 

North Korea has one of those.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Star_OS

[melmerby]

5 hours ago, rdeas said:

The machines (Dell and HP)  run much faster, the operating system is totally stable, it doesn't spy on you or force unwanted updates, and it's FREE!!!.

And they don't run "proper" software

I can't use my Scanner, I can't use the scanner specific applications, I can't use many other programs.

They just don't exist, contrary to Linuxphiles trying to claim everything Windows can do Linux can also do.

 

I've tried, I even changed a spare Win 10 machine over totally to Kubuntu 22.04(?), I eventually re-installed Win 11 (it was still licensed)

I do run some Linux, I have a RPi 400 running JMRI and a few other things.

 

 

Edited January 14 by melmerby

[whart57]

3 hours ago, melmerby said:

And they don't run "proper" software

I can't use my Scanner, I can't use the scanner specific applications, I can't use many other programs.

They just don't exist, contrary to Linuxphiles trying to claim everything Windows can do Linux can also do.

 

I can use my scanner. Try Skanlite, I've used that with Kodak, HP and Canon scanners.

 

As for "proper software", what is that? I retired from IBM six years ago, but just before that IBM standardised on Red Hat Linux for all new machines and upgrades from Windows 7. (Since then IBM has bought Red Hat the company). I think we can surmise from that that anything you need for business is covered. Your WP, Spreadsheet, Presentation software, browsers, email, and more. I use all of that now at home - Libre Office, Firefox, Inkscape and GIMP for drawing and photo-shopping. Even Templot works though AnyRail requires the WINE emulator

 

The one frustration I have had is that I have never got the Rosegarden MIDI music program to work. At least not with the MIDI hardware in my machine. A 3D CAD program for 3D printing artwork is another missing thing. I, or rather my daughter, has had success with Blender - an open source drawing programme meant for animations and on-line graphics - producing files for Shapeways to print, but frankly, my will to live fades when I try to use a 3D CAD program, so I don't see that as a major shortfall.

 

So, what have I missed?

[ejstubbs]

20 hours ago, whart57 said:

Even Templot works though AnyRail requires the WINE emulator

 

WINE Is Not an Emulator - it's in the name. (Technically it's a compatibility layer.)

 

I tried Wine few times but never really got on with it. I find VirtualBox much easier to use for running Windows applications, though it does require a Windows licence which Wine doesn't.  But then my first Windows VM was a virtualization of a licensed XP machine which has been successively upgraded to 7 and 10, all happily running on the original XP licence.  (Although I have had to buy a 64-bit Win 10 licence in anticipation of experimenting with 11 at some point, but TBH it wasn't that expensive and I don't grudge MS a few dollars every decade or so.)

[whart57]

A correction - I do run Templot as a WINE app. I have Virtual Box, in which I run a Win7 instance for the Silhouette software. I just find it a faff to fire it up if something works with WINE.

[melmerby]

22 hours ago, whart57 said:

I can use my scanner. Try Skanlite, I've used that with Kodak, HP and Canon scanners.

Can it do eight 35mm transparencies in one go? Saving the images a separate files?

Or 4 x 6 image 35mm strips of print film as received from the developers? The print film images are saved as separate positive images.

It also does some large format films and has various carriages to load the items into for scanning.

So far I haven't found a Linux app to do that.

Edited January 15 by melmerby

[beast66606]

On 14/01/2024 at 15:22, whart57 said:

 

I sometimes wonder what if an IT-savvy minister in the New Labour governments of the noughties had standardised government systems on Linux, using someone like Red Hat to provide a government-flavoured distro with appropriate security, management and other stuff to use around the civil service, whether we'd have the systems promised for the NHS and the like by now. Instead of being amazed at the PC in the nurses' station still being booted up into Windows XP. Or would MS' lobbyists have got him sacked in the first reshuffle.

 

I worked for a major supplier of systems to the NHS - a fair number of people in the UK will have been passed through systems I worked on  - the suppliers were not the problem with NHS IT at the time (80s/90s/early 00s). It would have taken a brave - and stupid - minister to mandate Linux on the desktop in those days, especially as it didn't exist until the 90s and was not user friendly until many years later, Up until 2005 one of my programs which linked our system to a theatre system was still running on a DOS based machine, in it's last year or two it was a virtual one - if it ain't broke don't break it.

Windows (client) was favoured because end users had it at home and so it was familiar in it's basic use, having an application which followed Windows conventions was a sensible move for suppliers, having one on Linux  not so much.

[whart57]

3 hours ago, melmerby said:

Can it do eight 35mm transparencies in one go? Saving the images a separate files?

 

 

My scanner doesn't do that. Not exactly a mainstream app is it?

[whart57]

1 hour ago, beast66606 said:

 

I worked for a major supplier of systems to the NHS - a fair number of people in the UK will have been passed through systems I worked on  - the suppliers were not the problem with NHS IT at the time (80s/90s/early 00s). It would have taken a brave - and stupid - minister to mandate Linux on the desktop in those days, especially as it didn't exist until the 90s and was not user friendly until many years later, Up until 2005 one of my programs which linked our system to a theatre system was still running on a DOS based machine, in it's last year or two it was a virtual one - if it ain't broke don't break it.

Windows (client) was favoured because end users had it at home and so it was familiar in it's basic use, having an application which followed Windows conventions was a sensible move for suppliers, having one on Linux  not so much.

 

And yet all that Windows stuff gave government systems managers endless security headaches with viruses and hacks. The fact a DOS based system was still running in 2005 suggests a shortage of money more than anything else.

 

Where I worked we had both Windows and UNIX (other flavours as well as Linux) clients and servers. I don't recall the "users have it at home" argument being made. My customers saw it as a work system, the users needed to learn it and the only thing they needed to know from the operating system was how to start the client app. Which you could do on start up anyway on all the systems.

[Torper]

Windows is easy, Linux isn't.  I recently tried to install Linux on an elderly laptop and while they definitely ran a bit faster than Windows on that machine none of the major contenders would do everything I wanted - it was all simple stuff that came automatically with Windows such as playing DVDs properly.  Eventually I settled on Zorin, which did everything I wanted except run the niche Windows programmes I required, and I haven't actually used it much.

 

I don't really understand those who complain about Windows.  I've had Wiondows computers since 3.1, and thay have invariably been stable and unproblematical.  Seven was excellent, as is 10, which I now run.  I do look after them, mind you, to the extent that I install updates when required (no problems) and have appropriate anti virus and malware software installed.  Every now and again I clean out unwanted stuff.  If it spies on me, good luck to it as I've nothing to hide that my banks, supermarkets, ISP, and all the other spying devices that abound in our society don't already know about.

[beast66606]

2 minutes ago, whart57 said:

 

And yet all that Windows stuff gave government systems managers endless security headaches with viruses and hacks. The fact a DOS based system was still running in 2005 suggests a shortage of money more than anything else.

 

Where I worked we had both Windows and UNIX (other flavours as well as Linux) clients and servers. I don't recall the "users have it at home" argument being made. My customers saw it as a work system, the users needed to learn it and the only thing they needed to know from the operating system was how to start the client app. Which you could do on start up anyway on all the systems.

 

 

The actual reason was not financial, the customer was replacing the "other" system and therefore decided to keep my bit in place until that happened, unfortunately there were some problems implementing that new system (nothing to do with me or my company) so things lasted longer that they expected, quite a bit longer - but given it (eventually) ran for 17 years without issue there was hardly anything to panic about, Y2K came and went, ships didn't sink, planes didn't fall from the sky and that bit of software kept on dealing with hundreds of patients each and every day.

 

During my time viruses and hacks were very few and far between but the Internet was not so prevalent and most/(all?) machines could only access the LAN. To gain access in bulk to any useful data would involve writing something to download it - and that would have been spotted almost immediately by the 24x7 monitoring which went on, human and software,

 

I've run Windows since Windows 1.0 - my girlfriend, now wife, worked for Apricot at the time, 1980s and she was allowed to bring home a PC running Windows 1, the kit was so expensive she wasn't allowed to bring the mouse home so I had to use it with keyboard only, a skill which has served me well over the years, although I've forgotten a lot now, I used to be able to do virtually everything using keyboard shortcuts. - I didn't like it (W1)

 

If you can convince someone to give you the root password for a minute or two, a snall program can be written which gives a back door into a UNIX based system.

[whart57]

9 hours ago, Torper said:

I don't really understand those who complain about Windows.  I've had Windows computers since 3.1, and they have invariably been stable and unproblematical.  Seven was excellent, as is 10, which I now run.  I do look after them, mind you, to the extent that I install updates when required (no problems) and have appropriate anti virus and malware software installed.  Every now and again I clean out unwanted stuff.  If it spies on me, good luck to it as I've nothing to hide that my banks, supermarkets, ISP, and all the other spying devices that abound in our society don't already know about.

 

Windows is easy because the PC manufacturer has done all the hard work. Try taking the disks that come with one PC and using them to install Windows on another from a different manufacturer for evidence. Of course these days you don't get the disks and your copy of Windows is locked to the hardware serial number of the PC it came on so you can't do that. But HP, Dell, Toshiba or whoever have done the necessary tweaks in Windows for you.

 

I would agree that Windows 7 was excellent, I used it at work and found it great. But then Microsoft decided the future for home computing was to share your life on social media. (As an aside, I attended a Bill Gates presentation way back in the early 1990s - Win 3.1 had only just come out - and Gates was already pushing a vision of your computer taking over your life.) The result was Windows 8, a Windows 9 which never made it out of the labs and a Windows 10 that - eventually - became usable. Then there were the insistent demands that you have a Microsoft account and use Outlook for your mail. If ignored you risked getting locked out of your machine. OK, it wasn't a bad idea to encrypt your disk so that your data was safe if someone stole your laptop, but in true Gates style, you had to get Microsoft involved getting it back.

 

The thing that did it for my wife was the change in how Office 365 was licensed. For me it had already been MS changing how you navigated Office. Then of course there was the constant nagging from Norton, McAfee etc for more money. Have you ever tried getting Norton to accept you don't want their stuff any more? Not strictly speaking Microsoft, but it was Microsoft's early vulnerabilities that got those guys up and running.

 

Now I accept that I am in the unusual position of having worked with Linux, both as servers and clients, for some twenty years of my working life. I accept that for most people just taking the Windows that comes pre-installed works for them. But it is a line of least resistance, and not something that should be followed by those making decisions for corporate and government use.

[MJI]

13 hours ago, beast66606 said:

 

I worked for a major supplier of systems to the NHS - a fair number of people in the UK will have been passed through systems I worked on  - the suppliers were not the problem with NHS IT at the time (80s/90s/early 00s). It would have taken a brave - and stupid - minister to mandate Linux on the desktop in those days, especially as it didn't exist until the 90s and was not user friendly until many years later, Up until 2005 one of my programs which linked our system to a theatre system was still running on a DOS based machine, in it's last year or two it was a virtual one - if it ain't broke don't break it.

Windows (client) was favoured because end users had it at home and so it was familiar in it's basic use, having an application which followed Windows conventions was a sensible move for suppliers, having one on Linux  not so much.

 

DOS app, we found one at a custome last year, I wrote it in the 90s. using the same database.

 

Out of interest what DOS languages did you use?