Hattons Model Railways to close

[melmerby]

10 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

yep agree but without them we would all have hairy noses

You mean you don't have a nose hair clipper.

No gentleman would be without such an accessory........🙂

[Michael Hodgson]

51 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

From the first post in this topic :-

 

'Andrew Barclay reruns will NOT be produced.' 

Indeed it did but the situation seems to have changed since then.  According to their web site today:

"Andrew Barclay reruns are currently under review. Once a decision has been made we will be sure to communicate this to customers."

 

If you want one, I suggest you pre-order it now, as the more pre-orders they get the more likely the decision will be positive.

[JohnR]

1 hour ago, MikeParkin65 said:

From the first post in this topic :-

 

'Andrew Barclay reruns will NOT be produced.' 

 

Indeed. And at that time, you were unable to place a new pre-order on their website. They then announced they were reviewing it, and now you CAN place a pre-order. 

[MikeParkin65]

9 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

Indeed. And at that time, you were unable to place a new pre-order on their website. They then announced they were reviewing it, and now you CAN place a pre-order. 

Good news then - my main interest is I want one so will get a pre order in and cross fingers :)

[Chamby]

7 hours ago, maico said:

A number of people in this thread asked about EU exports so I looked at Hatton's published company accounts.

In percentage terms exports were fairly steady.

 

2015 (pre- Brexit) turnover £11.3m, profit after tax 243k, 54 employees.

 

2017 turnover £13.6m, profit after tax 700k

 

2018 turnover £14.4m, profit £975k, 62 employees inc. directors

 

2019 turnover £14.7m, profit £839k. 69 employees

 

2021 turnover £12.3m, profit £623k

 

2022 turnover £10.9m (UK £8.8m, EU 1.4m, ROW 719k.) profit after tax £23k

 

2023 due April 2024

 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/05131251/filing-history?page=1

 

Reserves generally around $4.5m

Stock generally £3-4m

 

 

…and according to the Hattons website (meet the staff) they had 78 employees in November.  That’s a large overhead to maintain by industry standards, especially during a cost-of-living crisis when discretionary spend on hobbies is one of the first things that people will cut back on.  

 

78 people also represents a lot of expertise in the business that supports our hobby.  I hope that the other retailers and manufacturers might be able to help some of these people to move on without being lost to the hobby.

[maico]

2 hours ago, bmthtrains - David said:

Those accounts clearly show why Hattons came to this very sad but sensible (and frankly pretty honourable) decision to wind down with a 35% decline in sales over three years and a profit margin of 0.2%. Everyone there must have worked very hard to keep it in the black and despite the unhappy outcome the story of this business really is quite inspirational. Adapting to market changes across nine different decades, embracing the internet early on and dominating that market, commissioning exclusive models, the trunk system…There must be a book to be written about it all eventually.

 

I do hope the name continues in some form.

 

David

 

It looks like the covid bounce was masking a downward trend. I've added the 2016 figures which makes things a bit clearer. The wage bill alone was over £1million. 

[JohnR]

11 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Good news then - my main interest is I want one so will get a pre order in and cross fingers :)

 

I've just placed pre-orders for a couple. If they end up not producing them, I've lost nothing. 

[JohnR]

1 hour ago, Butler Henderson said:

I had an generic email from them saying they would not be able to supply my pre-order.

 

The only item I have on pre-order is a Genesis coach light strip which is still showing in my pre-orders, and which two weeks prior they confirmed that they were about to place the factory order.

 

Has anyone found their cancelled pre-order is no longer showing?

 

Have trunked a stack of items so suppose its a case of waiting to see what happens first, the light strip added to it or the items in the trunk automatically dispatched by them after Feb 5.

 

My only pre-orders prior to the closure notice were for some Genesis coaches and the accompanying lighting strips. They're still there.

 

They've now been joined by pre-orders for a pair of Hattons Originals Andrew Barclay 0-4-0STs.

 

[Jabee]

9 hours ago, maico said:

A number of people in this thread asked about EU exports so I looked at Hatton's published company accounts.

In percentage terms exports were fairly steady.

 

2015 (pre- Brexit) turnover £11.3m, profit after tax 243k, 54 employees.

 

2016 turnover £11.6 profit, £400k loss

 

2017 turnover £13.6m, profit after tax 700k

 

2018 turnover £14.4m, profit £975k, 62 employees inc. directors

 

2019 turnover £14.7m, profit £839k. 69 employees

 

2020 turnover £12.5m, profit £455k

 

2021 turnover £12.3m, profit £623k

 

2022 turnover £10.9m (UK £8.8m, EU 1.4m, ROW 719k.) profit after tax £23k

 

2023 due April 2024

 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/05131251/filing-history?page=1

 

Reserves generally around $4.5m

Stock generally £3-4m

 

 

The important measure of profitability is operating profit as post tax profit or loss is impacted by significant movements in the value of investment properties as well as changes in deferred tax balances, largely arising through fixed asset and other timing differences.

The year ended June 2021 showed an operating profit of £449k against turnover of £12.4m (3.6%), which, although I have no retail experience, I would suggest is a little low...my expectation might be more like something north of 5%.

In the year to June 22, turnover fell to a little under £11m and showed an operating loss of £400k. Looking a little deeper into the accounts, once the cost of stock recognised as an expense in the year is excluded, it appears the business carries a 'fixed' cost burden of something like £4.5m. If the forecast for the current year is showing a further deterioration in turnover, the decision to cease operations to minimise the corresponding reduction in net assets becomes easier to understand.

Edited January 11 by Jabee
Spelling

[AMJ]

@Butler Henderson This week following the news I cancelled a Rapido loco and ordered it elsewhere.  The other items still outstanding are Genesis coaches and associated lighting.  I'd prefer to have them illuminated and TBH I could live without the lighting as I could add some using LEDs etc.  I have not had any emails indicating that the lighting is not coming so assuming that it is.

 

We have seen other retail outlets close due to various factors, we can all remember Beatties and our sales will be dealt with by others.

[rovex]

Suppose it's possible that Hattons could sell on the rights/moulds for their Genesis coaches 

[Butler Henderson]

4 minutes ago, rovex said:

Suppose it's possible that Hattons could sell on the rights/moulds for their Genesis coaches 

Quite likely I would think along with the Barclay, P and Warwell given the sale of the 66 to Accurascale.

[steve45]

Just pre-ordered  2 Genesis CIE Brake Seconds. I will repaint them if the order is fulfilled

Edited January 11 by steve45
Additional Information

[TimberValleyRailway]

SECR liveried appears to now he showing as 'Sold out on preorder'

[johnofwessex]

Railway Modeller has just arrived with a large ad for.

 

Hattons 

[bradfordbuffer]

17 minutes ago, johnofwessex said:

Railway Modeller has just arrived with a large ad for.

 

Hattons 

I think your magazine was designed, signed off, printed and distributed way before Monday! Oh boy🤨🙈

[Jol Wilkinson]

8 hours ago, Chamby said:

…and according to the Hattons website (meet the staff) they had 78 employees in November.  That’s a large overhead to maintain by industry standards, especially during a cost-of-living crisis when discretionary spend on hobbies is one of the first things that people will cut back on.  

 

78 people also represents a lot of expertise in the business that supports our hobby.  I hope that the other retailers and manufacturers might be able to help some of these people to move on without being lost to the hobby.

I suggest that many of the 78 employees will had a relatively low skill role, as in any distribution business and further would not be likely to be able or want to relocate to another of the current major players in a different location. 

 

Those that have IT, Marketing, Warehouse Management, etc. expertise may also well be able to find employment locally and therefore not remain within the model railway retail sector.

[RJP]

Very sorry to hear of the closure of Hattons.  Like others, I have used them a great deal over the years and always had a great service. Their advertisements were very interesting from when I started reading Railway Modeller and Model Railway Constructor in 1968 and I soon started sending for model railway items by mail order and paying by postal order in those days. More recently I have sold back older model locomotives to update my stock of WR steam and diesel locomotives, coaches and everything else.

Best wishes to all the staff, who were always courteous and helpful whenever I contacted the shop or online. I’m sure we all hope that they will be able to use their enormous abilities in whatever employment sector they find themselves in future.

[JohnR]

45 minutes ago, johnofwessex said:

Railway Modeller has just arrived with a large ad for.

 

Hattons 

 

Depends what you mean by large. It was a 2 page spread - much smaller than in previous years. And solely devoted to buying and selling the 2nd hand. Not offering anything new. 

[AY Mod]

2 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I suggest that many of the 78 employees will had a relatively low skill role

 

My experience from visits was that many staff had a good depth of knowledge of the subject matter combined with a high level of competence within their specific role.

[Captain Cuttle]

On 10/01/2024 at 20:10, Roy L S said:

You missed nail-bars and men's barbers off the list, they seem to have grown exponentially in town centres in recent years 🤔

And.................Tanning Parlours plus eyelash extensions!

[YT-1300]

2 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I suggest that many of the 78 employees will had a relatively low skill role, as in any distribution business and further would not be likely to be able or want to relocate to another of the current major players in a different location. 

 

That is a rather rude comment, just because someone works in a distribution business does not mean they are low skilled.

 

In my dealings with the staff they have been extremely knowledgeable, not just with model railways but within the plastic kit arena.

 

[bradfordbuffer]

2 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I suggest that many of the 78 employees will had a relatively low skill role, as in any distribution business and further would not be likely to be able or want to relocate to another of the current major players in a different location. 

 

Those that have IT, Marketing, Warehouse Management, etc. expertise may also well be able to find employment locally and therefore not remain within the model railway retail sector.

Wow Mr Wilkinson....surprised you could type that comment whilst looking down your nose!

 

Without staff that perform 'none technical functions' as part of there work flow performances there will be no everything...

Talk about kicking staff whilst there on the floor! Not nice

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

2 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

My experience from visits was that many staff had a good depth of knowledge of the subject matter combined with a high level of competence within their specific role.

 

28 minutes ago, YT-1300 said:

That is a rather rude comment, just because someone works in a distribution business does not mean they are low skilled.

 

In my dealings with the staff they have been extremely knowledgeable, not just with model railways but within the plastic kit arena.

 

 

4 minutes ago, bradfordbuffer said:

Wow Mr Wilkinson....surprised you could type that comment whilst looking down your nose!

 

Without staff that perform 'none technical functions' as part of there work flow performances there will be no everything...

Talk about kicking staff whilst there on the floor! Not nice

 

 

Clearly the point I was trying to make has been misinterpreted in the understandable depression surrounding Hattons closure.

 

I feel that those made redundant by Hattons should not find it too difficult to fine new jobs locally, in an national and local economy in which supply and distribution is a very major sector. They might have great knowledge of model railway products and its market, but unless they are willing to move elsewhere to where other major model retailers are based that may not of much use. However, their skills, at whatever level, should enable them to find employment elsewhere locally. That is the positive I was trying to portray.

[AY Mod]

1 minute ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Clearly the point I was trying to make has been misinterpreted in the understandable depression surrounding Hattons closure.

 

I honestly don't think you can lay any blame on others misinterpreting your comments; better to accept that you shouldn't have phrased it that way if it isn't what you meant.