Peterborough North

[great northern]

You've 3 more A3's than I now Gilbert. I sold off several of mine 'to fund other purchases'

 

I'll probably thin down the 14 A4's I've got a bit too.

 

Which A3's you running?

 

I now have numbers 39,46,48,50,55,56,59,62,67,70,90,105 and 111. Identity of the latest one not yet decided. As i've decided to get as near as possible to prototype running it's not surprising that I need so many locos . I'm also thinking of having a card system to build in a few problems- loco failures/boiler washouts etc, in which case I shall need even more! I couldn't do it with just a few though. It just wouldn't look right to have the same locos turning up every few minutes. Any excuse.......

[great northern]

Very nice layout, being a Peterborough lad I've never seen anyone model Peterborough North on such a grand scale.

 

On 1st September 1955 the W1 crashed at Westwood signal box. On page 94 of 'Hush Hush - The Story of LNER 10000' there is a nice picture of 10000 being dragged away by a B17. The W1 is notably missing its front bogie as a result of the accident. Might make a nice model?

 

Unfortunately (and fortunately ) I'm only old enough to remember as far back as Intercity Swallow. Was there anything left of the old level crossing about that time? all that remains of it now is the street leading to it.

 

I think somebody tried modelling it many years ago, but no-one has been that stupid since. Do you mean the level crossing that was there before Crescent Bridge opened? If so, all trace of that had already gone by the '50's. I've seen the photos of the W1 accident. The guy in the signal box must have thought his last moments were coming! It's a good job it happened at such low speed. Westwood is off scene for me though.

[Coldgunner]

ahh, I thought it had gone by then, I've seen pictures during and not long after construction of the crescent bridge that shows the old crossing.

 

Definitely some good work there, very recognisable even today. Give it a few years and the proposed development, the Peterborough station I've grown to know so well may be gone.

[Guest Tom F]

I know we spoke of ex North Eastern locos, but in your time period of 58, and certain trains like the Hornsea fish train worked through, but would there be any NE locos, I'm guessing at a push a B16, any other types working out of York?

[davidw]

 

I now have numbers 39,46,48,50,55,56,59,62,67,70,90,105 and 111. Identity of the latest one not yet decided. As i've decided to get as near as possible to prototype running it's not surprising that I need so many locos . I'm also thinking of having a card system to build in a few problems- loco failures/boiler washouts etc, in which case I shall need even more! I couldn't do it with just a few though. It just wouldn't look right to have the same locos turning up every few minutes. Any excuse.......

 

Hum I can't quite play snap but not far off. I've 38, 39, 44, 51, 53, 59, 62, 74, 77, 85,103 and 107. As you'd expect I've been a stickler for the correct boiler and tender combination. The recent sales were 90 and 46. Unlike your90 mine was filthy. So I couldn't justify it down south.

[great northern]

I know we spoke of ex North Eastern locos, but in your time period of 58, and certain trains like the Hornsea fish train worked through, but would there be any NE locos, I'm guessing at a push a B16, any other types working out of York?

 

B16's appeared rarely, but for some reason usually a number at around the same time when they did. Some through workings from Tyneside by '58, bringing mainly Gateshead Pacifics down South in greater numbers than previously. Out of York, the occasional A1 or A2, but mainly V2's on goods workings, and mainly at night.

[mikemeg]

 

B16's appeared rarely, but for some reason usually a number at around the same time when they did. Some through workings from Tyneside by '58, bringing mainly Gateshead Pacifics down South in greater numbers than previously. Out of York, the occasional A1 or A2, but mainly V2's on goods workings, and mainly at night.

 

Of course there is always that final recourse for locos working out of their normal geography - football excursions, though I don't know where Peterborough Town FC were, in the football league, in your chosen timescale. So, York playing Peterborough in the FA Cup with York having a sudden, unexplained shortage of Pacific, V2 or B1 availability and resorting to a B16?

 

After all, it's your layout so you can make the pretext whatever you wish.

 

But I'm completely stumped as to how you could justify one of the ex-NER 0-8-0's at New England .

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[HerbertHopkins]

 

I now have numbers 39,46,48,50,55,56,59,62,67,70,90,105 and 111. Identity of the latest one not yet decided. As i've decided to get as near as possible to prototype running it's not surprising that I need so many locos . I'm also thinking of having a card system to build in a few problems- loco failures/boiler washouts etc, in which case I shall need even more! I couldn't do it with just a few though. It just wouldn't look right to have the same locos turning up every few minutes. Any excuse.......

Personally I think that 60110 would be an excellent choice!

[HerbertHopkins]

 

Of course there is always that final recourse for locos working out of their normal geography - football excursions, though I don't know where Peterborough Town FC were, in the football league, in your chosen timescale. So, York playing Peterborough in the FA Cup with York having a sudden, unexplained shortage of Pacific, V2 or B1 availability and resorting to a B16?

 

After all, it's your layout so you can make the pretext whatever you wish.

 

But I'm completely stumped as to how you could justify one of the ex-NER 0-8-0's at New England .

 

Cheers

 

Mike

In 1958 Peterborough United (not Town!) were probably the leading non-league team in the country. They had a number of noteable FA Cup runs around this time and were attracting considerable support as a result. Football specials could, therefore, provide an excellent excuse for running locos that would not normally be seen in the area, should Gilbert wish to model them of course. As an aside, I know for a fact that Gilbert is a Lincoln City supporter who is not particularly fond of the 'Posh'!

[great northern]

In 1958 Peterborough United (not Town!) were probably the leading non-league team in the country. They had a number of noteable FA Cup runs around this time and were attracting considerable support as a result. Football specials could, therefore, provide an excellent excuse for running locos that would not normally be seen in the area, should Gilbert wish to model them of course. As an aside, I know for a fact that Gilbert is a Lincoln City supporter who is not particularly fond of the 'Posh'!

 

This is not a good time to remind me that I am a Lincoln City supporter. Mind you, last Sunday wasn't up to much for supporters of a much better outfit was it? Yes, Peterborough United were a top non league team in the late '50's, and they may well have had a couple of good cup runs. Goodness knows where they would have put the excursion trains though. It was strictly Saturdays for football then, and I can't see how North station could have coped. United's ground is much nearer to where Peterborough East station used to be, so I suspect footie specials would have been routed along the Midland lines and down to East.

 

And why is everyone suddenly trying to give me excuses for having more locos. You wouldn't offer a drink to an alcoholic would you? So have pity on a poor locoholic.

[great northern]

Personally I think that 60110 would be an excellent choice!

 

I simply cannot think to whom you might be referring? Or put another way, which are you thinking of?

[S.A.C Martin]

How about 60112 St. Simon with small deflectors? This has nothing to do with my first name! You could also have 60078 Night Hawk, or perhaps my favourite, 60081 Shotover. I think the tender would be correct for 112 and 81, but the deflectors would have to go on both if you used the Hornby Brown Jack model as a basis. 78 would need a new tender top and the defectors removed. 112 would need small deflectors fitted for 1960s but anything earlier you'd get away with just the double chimney I think. Not sure on boiler types: they may all be unfeasible! (That's my disclaimer!)

[great northern]

How about 60112 St. Simon with small deflectors? This has nothing to do with my first name! You could also have 60078 Night Hawk, or perhaps my favourite, 60081 Shotover. I think the tender would be correct for 112 and 81, but the deflectors would have to go on both if you used the Hornby Brown Jack model as a basis. 78 would need a new tender top and the defectors removed. 112 would need small deflectors fitted for 1960s but anything earlier you'd get away with just the double chimney I think. Not sure on boiler types: they may all be unfeasible! (That's my disclaimer!)

 

Hi Simon,

 

I'm looking at single chimney and GN tender, so as 112 got a double chimney very early(July 58), that's out. I already have several double chimney locos - too many probably as the main time frame is August 58. That's why i was so pleased to get my hands on a brand new single chimney/GN tender loco. I don't think Shotover got to Peterborough too often, so that's out too. I saw Book Law on my very first visit to Newark in 1956, and it is appropriate given my profession, so I've nearly settled on 88, even though it was a Heaton engine. Then I suppose that given my other hobby, 92 will have to be considered.

[Guest Tom F]

I saw Book Law on my very first visit to Newark in 1956, and it is appropriate given my profession, so I've nearly settled on 88, even though it was a Heaton engine. Then I suppose that given my other hobby, 92 will have to be considered.

 

Sounds perfect for both reasons to me ....you did say a number of North Eastern Pacifics were known to appear at Peterborough. If she appeared at Newark in 1956, would that have most likely meant she would have come off that train at Peterborough?

[HerbertHopkins]

 

Sounds perfect for both reasons to me ....you did say a number of North Eastern Pacifics were known to appear at Peterborough. If she appeared at Newark in 1956, would that have most likely meant she would have come off that train at Peterborough?

I think North Eastern locos usually came off at Grantham, I suspect this was purely for logistical reasons. Grantham shed was adjacent to the station so it was possible to turn, coal and water a loco ready for its return journey in a relatively short space of time. New England shed was about two miles from Peterborough North so it would have taken considerably longer to turn a loco there.

[HerbertHopkins]

 

Mind you, last Sunday wasn't up to much for supporters of a much better outfit was it?

 

 

Sorry Gilbert, I haven't got a clue what you're talking about!

[great northern]

I think North Eastern locos usually came off at Grantham, I suspect this was purely for logistical reasons. Grantham shed was adjacent to the station so it was possible to turn, coal and water a loco ready for its return journey in a relatively short space of time. New England shed was about two miles from Peterborough North so it would have taken considerably longer to turn a loco there.

 

For some reason, a number of Gateshead and one Heaton Pacific got as far as Peterborough. I have an article in an old Trains Illustrated which refers to three Gateshead Pacifics visiting Peterborough on a daily basis, and I know that Heaton worked the 0753 Sunderland- Kings Cross, returning with the Down Heart of Midlothian. I do for some reason remember even 55 years on seeing a Heaton loco every day during my spotting expeditions, but only the one.

 

The rosters did change in later years, but I am not sure exactly when. For my purposes they will still exist in 1958, as it gives me justification for one or several more exotic visitors, and some extra operating interest by performing the necessary moves to get locos ready to take over Down trains.

 

These visitors were appreciated by others too, as I have seen quite a lot of photos of Gateshead locos running over the crossover from Up to Down main llight engine. They would then have reversed into Platform 4 or 5 bay to await the arrival of the train. Very recently one of our fellow members has sent me a number of photos his Dad took at Peterborough in 1957 and 1958, and not surprisingly some of them feature the more rare visitors. I will ask if I can have permission to reproduce one or two on here.

 

Sorry Gilbert, I haven't got a clue what you're talking about!

 

Oh dear! Here's a clue then. 61648.

[landscapes]

Hi Gilbert

 

Fantastic layout.

 

May I ask where you purchased the Elizabethan headboard carried by A4 60011 Empire of India in the photos a few pages back.

 

Regards

 

David

[Markeg]

Hi David,

 

I know that Precision Models does head and coach board sets for a few trains including The Elizabethan, Pullmans and The Silver Jubilee, etc. They are available thru Frizinghall Models. Just google Precision Models and I think you will find them.

 

regards

Mark

[great northern]

Hi Gilbert

 

Fantastic layout.

 

May I ask where you purchased the Elizabethan headboard carried by A4 60011 Empire of India in the photos a few pages back.

 

Regards

 

David

 

Hi David,

 

I got this one from Fox. CGW (now available through International Models) also do very good headboards.

[coachmann]

Not sure about the Thompson David. It has an etched plate underneath which says " Lawrence scale models, rebuilt for ******* (illegible)" and the date looks like 1986. It's all metal, but I don't think its Comet. I acquired it from TMS models a few years ago, but Terry Smith didn't know any more about it either. I wonder if Coachmann can throw any light on it?

Sorry I missed this. Derek insisted I sign & date his models but then he sometimes stuck one of his engraved plates over it, but at least it gives you the date 1985. The month was usually in Roman numerals. I would have to get old invoice books down from the attic to look up this Thompson coaches' history, however, they were usually BSL aluminium at that time. If not, then it must be Comet models.

 

I envy your exotic locos there.........No, not the Pacifics etc but the GCR A5 etc.

[HerbertHopkins]

 

 

 

 

 

Oh dear! Here's a clue then. 61648.

Glad you chose that loco and not 61662 - that really would be rubbing salt into the wound!

[CUTLER2579]

Gilbert the last single chimney A3 I recall was 60042 fitted with a double Chimney in September 1961 and she had a 94A Boiler & GNR Tender. The previous one to that was I believe 60038 which aquirred a 107 Boiler and Double Chimney in June 1961,but kept her LNER Tender.

Gilbert I had you down as a Gentleman of the highest order,but really upsetting poor "Herbert Hopkins" like that makes me wonder if you are a bit of an Arse (anal ----- In more polite terms). .

As for the mighty "Posh" Peterborough TOWN, (Ye Gods its always been United). They were plodding away in the old Midland League against the likes of Grantham Town (Gingerbreads) (Always a Boxing Day fixture), Goole Town, Grimsby Town Reserves (Mariners), Lincoln City Reserves (The Imps) and such like,but were often very good in the FA Cup,as were Grantham,who played Middlesborough and Swindon Town.

[davidw]

Gilbert the last single chimney A3 I recall was 60042 fitted with a double Chimney in September 1961 and she had a 94A Boiler & GNR Tender. The previous one to that was I believe 60038 which aquirred a 107 Boiler and Double Chimney in June 1961,but kept her LNER Tender.

 

Curriously he Green book refers to 60042 recieving a double blast pipe in 9/58 and Firdaussi as 9/59. I think the Power of the of the A3's refers to a different date I think for 60042- it could have been 60041. I find all the cross referencing fascinating though.

[S.A.C Martin]

 

Hi Simon,

 

I'm looking at single chimney and GN tender, so as 112 got a double chimney very early(July 58), that's out. I already have several double chimney locos - too many probably as the main time frame is August 58. That's why i was so pleased to get my hands on a brand new single chimney/GN tender loco. I don't think Shotover got to Peterborough too often, so that's out too. I saw Book Law on my very first visit to Newark in 1956, and it is appropriate given my profession, so I've nearly settled on 88, even though it was a Heaton engine. Then I suppose that given my other hobby, 92 will have to be considered.

 

That's fair enough chap - given the sheer choice of A3s, the possibilities are endless!

 

I wonder, can we complete the set on RMweb in terms of 00 A3s? Who has "copped" which numbers, and all that!