Peterborough North

[CUTLER2579]

Good Evening Gilbert,

Your statement reads:-

"I can't resist adding a comment to this shot of a K2 on the M&GN. Tony built this from the London Road kit, and so far as we are aware this one and mine are the only two working examples in existence, unless of course you know otherwise........"

Indeed I do, I had one built by Allen Hammett a close friend of mine and known to TW. However when I sold off all of my "OO" stock about 2 years ago I sold 61771 to a gentleman from Barnsley.

The photographs today are phenonamal BLOODY AMAZING. Do keep spoiling us and have a splendid Xmas and New Year.

Whats Santa going to bring you A Hornby B1..

 

Kind Regards,

 

Derek.

[Guest oldlugger]

For me Tony W's layout has been the most inspirational since the 1960's days of Borchester. He hasn't crammed lots of track in....The layout has an air of spaciousness about it that so many others lack, and it must It be a great place to watch trains go by. Like Great Northern's Peterborough, the trackwork is superb and '00' to boot.

 

One thing puzzles me.......The K2 is on a facing crossover.

 

There is no doubt that Tony's layout is splendid (and will be even more so when "finished" ) with lovely flowing track. However, few modellers have the space available that Tony has (in his purpose built shed) or maybe the means or time to create the type of layout you refer to. Just because a layout is small without twelve coach expresses and sixty wagon freights passing in succession and a spacious track layout, doesn't mean it is a lesser model. Far from it. There are huge numbers of very fine modestly sized layouts that have tons of atmosphere and prototypical realism. Just check this forum or MRJ for example. I think in these hardened times your statement is perhaps a little insensitive to those who are pushed for cash and space.

 

Simon

 

PS - sorry to divert from the Peterborough layout thread.

[number6]

I think in these hardened times your statement is perhaps a little insensitive to those who are pushed for cash and space.

 

An air of spaciousness is hardly the preserve of the rich! Unless that too has been privatised when I wasn't paying attention.

Edited December 14, 2011 by number6

[great northern]

 

There is no doubt that Tony's layout is splendid (and will be even more so when "finished" ) with lovely flowing track. However, few modellers have the space available that Tony has (in his purpose built shed) or maybe the means or time to create the type of layout you refer to. Just because a layout is small without twelve coach expresses and sixty wagon freights passing in succession and a spacious track layout, doesn't mean it is a lesser model. Far from it. There are huge numbers of very fine modestly sized layouts that have tons of atmosphere and prototypical realism. Just check this forum or MRJ for example. I think in these hardened times your statement is perhaps a little insensitive to those who are pushed for cash and space.

 

Simon

 

PS - sorry to divert from the Peterborough layout thread.

 

Hi Simon,

 

I didn't read Larry's post as being in any way critical or dismissive of smaller layouts. When he refers to the "air of spaciousness" that I think can apply just as well to a smaller layout. Some layouts of whatever size are just IMO too "busy" as if the creator couldn't resist the temptation to cram some more in. TW and I are both fortunate in the amount of room we have, though we have also both had to wait until or near retirement age to be able to get it. Neither of us would dream of claiming this is the only way to go. It is a fact though that those who dream of modelling the old ECML do need plenty of room!

[Andy Y]

There are huge numbers of very fine modestly sized layouts that have tons of atmosphere and prototypical realism.

 

Yes.

 

But it doesn't stop us appreciating the achievements of those who do have the space available and I don't think there was anything in Larry's posts to impact upon any sensitivities.

[Guest oldlugger]

 

An air of spaciousness is hardly the preserve of the rich! Unless that too has been privatised when I wasn't paying attention.

 

Creating an air of spaciousness needs physical space, most of the time. Coachman was specifically referring to a very large layout with lots of space. Little layouts are generally busier in terms of track work (not always of course) to make up for a lack of room for longer trains to stretch their legs, etc. Thus spaciousness disappears. Unless the builder of the small layout opts for a very simple track layout, reducing running possibilities, but attempting to portray the elusive air of space, then spaciousness remains the preserve of the large layout. Therefore, spaciousness (as I understand it, and I'm sure many others too) is expensive. Very expensive. My point was that Coachman's statement appeared to be knocking those layouts where the builder had fewer options open to him or her than to the one who is not strapped for cash and, dare I say it, space. How many of us would love to have a large room dedicated to a prototypical railway location and the means to build it? Loads of us. Case closed.

[coachmann]

Oldlugger :

I think in these hardened times your statement is perhaps a little insensitive to those who are pushed for cash and space.

 

I don't believe this! I was simply paying tribute to Tony W. and saying how his layout affected me.

 

I don't have a lot of space but I'll do my damdest to give my layout the same air of spaciousness as Tony's. Inspiration indeed.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Andy Y

[gordon s]

I didn't see anything in Larry's post that could convey the point you were making.

 

You only have to take a look at any of Chris Nevard's layouts to see 'an air of spaciousness'. I was staggered when I saw Catcott Burtle in the flesh and just how small it was.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Physical space, and a look of spaciousness, are not one and the same thing.

 

That's all I want to say.

 

Thank you,

Peter

[landscapes]

Good to see progress on Little Bytham and I am really pleased to here of Tony's progress. Agrre it would be excellent for Tony to set up a Little Bytham thread, but I would understand if he didn't.

Good evening all

I have just logged on, what stunning photos of Tony's Layout Little Bytham.

My only critisisum is would top shed (assuming the A4 is travelling north) have put such a dirty A4 on the Tees-Tyne Pullman, but what a fantastic photo one of the best I have seen so far on any thread.

I too enjoy very much watching Tony's DVD made earlier this year of Little Bytham, but I usually wait until my wife has gone out.

The comminications this evening seem to be getting a little heated, it just a hobby we should all enjoy and layouts like Gilberts and Tony's make it all the more special for anyone interested in the ECML.

Regards

David

Railway and Landscape Photographer

http://www.landscapesandsteam.co.uk

[Guest Tom F]

My only critisisum is would top shed (assuming the A4 is travelling north) have put such a dirty A4 on the Tees-Tyne Pullman, but what a fantastic photo one of the best I

 

I'm guessing the likely hood is that it could be a 52A loco on a return working...and that would surely account for the filthy condition!

Superb photos Gilbert, many thanks to Mr Wright for allowing us to see his stunning layout, many thanks indeed!

 

Tom

[CUTLER2579]

 

I'm guessing the likely hood is that it could be a 52A loco on a return working...and that would surely account for the filthy condition!

Superb photos Gilbert, many thanks to Mr Wright for allowing us to see his stunning layout, many thanks indeed!

 

Tom

 

Tom,

your report from me would be much like my old school reports :- Could do much better. It is in fact the Up Tees-Tyne passing through Little Bytham travelling in a Southerly Direction. Hence a Gateshead turned out Engine,not our Beloved Top Shed.

As for "Landscapes" I will not be rude to him as I don't know him personally and he did allueded to the possibility of it travelling towards London.

However,as for you young Tom I can see you being late out of school a few evenings if you persists in concocting these stories,which are clearly factually wrong and misleading and an appointment with the Headmaster looms on the horizon if there is no rapid improvement. .

Kind Regards,

Derek.

Edited December 14, 2011 by CUTLER2579

[Guest Tom F]

 

Tom,

your report from me would be much like my old school reports :- Could do much better. It is in fact the Up Tees-Tyne passing through Little Bytham travelling in a Southerly Direction. Hence a Gateshead turned out Engine,not our Beloved Top Shed.

As for "Landscapes" I will not be rude to him as I don't know him personally and he did allueded to the possibility of it travelling towards London.

However,as for you young Tom I can see you being late out of school a few evenings if you persists in concocting these stories,which are clearly factually wrong and misleading and an appointment with the Headmaster looms on the horizon if there is no rapid improvement. .

Kind Regards,

Derek.

 

 

But please Sir....I was almost right Sir....I did say a 52A loco Sir...and would never suggest a Top Shed A4 would be so grubby Sir!

 

May I go trainspotting now sir?

[Colin parks]

I've just seen the superb photos of little Bytham. The thing that impresses me most about both Little Bytham and Peterborough North is the flowing trackwork/pointwork.

 

There is hope for 00 modellers then!

 

Colin

[great northern]

Yet another knock on the door this morning, and another parcel of goodies. I'm beginning to think that this may be associated with my constant falling into temptation and ordering yet more stuff. This time it's another carriage......

 

 

 

It satisfies several of my wants. First, I want to have at least a few pre grouping vehicles, second I wanted something rather different and which I've rarely if ever seen modelled, and third I wanted one of Coachmann's eye watering range of bespoke coaches. So I now have an ex Midland Railway TK to Dia 1282, which will go into the set that plies its trade between Peterborough East and Leicester. Many thanks to Larry for this lovely piece of workmanship. I now have a complete ex LMS four coach train, so I don't need any more of these, do I?................Incorrigible? Moi?

[KevinWalsh]

That is some seriously tasty work (just wish I had a tenth of the skill required)

Edited December 16, 2011 by KevinWalsh

[great northern]

 

Tom,

your report from me would be much like my old school reports :- Could do much better. It is in fact the Up Tees-Tyne passing through Little Bytham travelling in a Southerly Direction. Hence a Gateshead turned out Engine,not our Beloved Top Shed.

As for "Landscapes" I will not be rude to him as I don't know him personally and he did allueded to the possibility of it travelling towards London.

However,as for you young Tom I can see you being late out of school a few evenings if you persists in concocting these stories,which are clearly factually wrong and misleading and an appointment with the Headmaster looms on the horizon if there is no rapid improvement. .

Kind Regards,

Derek.

 

You boy! Yes you Cutler - Headmaster's study at once, and don't try the old trick of stuffing a magazine down your trousers to soften the blows. TW is flexing his cane, and knows all the schoolboy tricks.

 

This reply received from Tony this morning. " A4 60030 Golden Fleece ( SE Finecast kit built by TW, painted by Ian Rathbone) has charge of the Up Tees Tyne Pullman (modified Hornby and Bachmann cars) passing an 02/2 (built by Alan Hammet, painted and weathered by TW). The comments regarding a filthy A4 on a prestige working are amusing. If you look closely, it can't be a 52a A4, because its got a corridor tender - beading and no soleplate flange. In reality, the model isn't quite as dirty as it appears .....( Tony puts this down to the "limitations of his photography).".....and its condition is based on personal experience. TW saw 60030 at Retford in exactly that condition, on an Up express(admittedly not the TTP.)"

 

I put the bit about the A4 in bold, not TW. I think from this you can see that his old self is beginning to surface, thank goodness. Tony goes on to cite no less than 18 photos from Peter Coster's Book of the A4's published by Irwell Press showing A4's in less than pristine condition, many of those shots being on Top link jobs. I've paraphrased this a bit- hope TW won't mind. He sent me a set of captions for all the latest photos, and I sat down this morning and added them all using my typing digit. Sadly when I tried to post the edited version it did not appear. My finger says it doesn't want to type it all again at present.

 

Seriously, I agree with Tony that even in Peter Townend's day not all KX A4's were spotless all the time. In practical terms an engine that went to Newcastle in bad weather and returned that day or the next also in bad weather would be quite dirty by the time it got to Bytham and Peterborough, however well cleaned it had been before starting out. I also know TW's Golden Fleece isn't as dirty as the photo suggests- it's a brave man that weathers a Rathbone paint job at all, let alone concealing it under a coating of grime. He does have Sparrow Hawk, which is suitably grubby.

[micklner]

I have seen lots of photos of A4's in LNER days in far from pristine condtion. In particular the area either side of the cylinders valance joints are generally straeked Black/Oil shades. I doubt very much if BR ever kept them much cleaner either !!

[Pete Harvey]

I'm looking forward to the 20th Christmas will be coming a few days early for you Gilbert.

 

Pete

[tetleys]

Gilbert,

 

As you can see, I took your advice, nice to see Tony is back on 'The Main Line' and since I've got a couple of days enforced rest from building the new railway room and if I need to hide from the grandkids I'll back track through your post to get the steam oil coursing through my viens again.I feel the urge to buy some sheets of Birch ply.

[CUTLER2579]

Oh, Gilbert what if young Tom finds out,but he won't he's not that keen on the Eastern Region !! I am pleased to say Tom entered into the spirit of things and will no doubt be having a good old chuckle at my expenes.

I must admit I didn't notice the Tender or for that matter the particular O2/2 in question,which I should have done as TW will explain to you. Its so good to see that Tony is making progress at last its been a long time,but thats what it takes sometimes. These things can never be rushed and I regretably speak from personal experience.

Weathering a Ian Rathbone painted Locomotive is almost beyond my comprehension,its almost like you Weathering Coachmans work. Mind you SOME people do have the skills to do it correctly unlike myself. (No Reference to your skills you note Gilbert). That teacher" Wrighty" is to wise by half , that was always worth a try,but seldom was it a success.

Kind Regards,

Derek.

Edited December 17, 2011 by CUTLER2579

[great northern]

First train on the sequence today turned out to be the 1720 Peterborough East- Leicester local, which gave me the opportunity to give my latest Coachmann special its first run in revenue service. Here's the train at Platform 6, headed by a Standard class 4(75060 for the spotters ). Leicester Midland shed got a few of these new in 1957, and I have several photos of them on duties such as this.

 

 

Behind the tender is a "Porthole" BSK. I acquired this a few years ago. It's beautifully built and painted, though unfortunately there's nothing to show who did it. Of course Bachmann are going to produce one soon. Probably much too new and smart a coach for this sort of train, but there we are.

 

 

Next one gives me a problem, as it's a Mainline CK from many years back. I remember being very impressed when these first appeared way back in the '70's, but it is now very much shown up by the other coaches in this rake. I wonder if Coachmann has got any CK etches in stock?

 

 

Next is a BSK, from the Ian Willets/Dave Studley stable. It's surprising how often photos show that brake coaches were not always at the end of formations as they were supposed to be.

 

 

And last but by no means least is Coachmann's superb Midland Railway TK. Most photos show a coach very similar to this either at the head of or bringing up the rear of one of these four coach formations.

 

 

This is very nearly an extremely nice rake now, but I must do something about that composite. The other significant thing about the shots of the coaches is that in less than 48 hours from now it will no longer be possible to take them.

[S.A.C Martin]

From that angle, I hope, and not permanently?! I trust this is because a pre-fabricated construction will be going up soon in that space...!

 

All looking terrific Gilbert.

[great northern]

I've just realised that I have been extremely remiss. Several days ago Tony W e-mailed me the following which he asked me to put on the thread .

 

"Tony is keen to stress that he's not intending to hijack this Peterborough thread, and thanks all those RMWeb members who've expressed their support during his chronic illness."

 

I'm delighted to be able to show these lovely pictures of Little Bytham, so there's no hijacking going on. Just keep on getting better Tony - we've all missed you more than you could realise.

Edited December 18, 2011 by great northern

[great northern]

From that angle, I hope, and not permanently?! I trust this is because a pre-fabricated construction will be going up soon in that space...!

 

All looking terrific Gilbert.

 

Yes Simon, the view from there will soon be obstructed. As usual I didn't express myself very clearly.