Peterborough North

[Mallard60022]

Looking more closely at a 1904 map (it is hard to read even with a magnifying glass) and observing the brickwork.  I think the building with the tower is the oldest with the yellow brick and the section with blanked off windows and chimney is an extension to it.

 

On the map below, number 4 reads, as best as I can see, "Mess House"

There are four other small buildings around it, the small building just to the right of my number 4, attached to the 'mess House' is IMO the bell tower.

 

1 = Wagon Repair Shop

2 = Carpenters Shop

3 = Ladder Shop

4 = Mess House

5 = Engineers Offices

 

plan1904.jpg

 

edit: to change numbering on plan

So a 'come to cookhouse door boys' bell then? Anyhow, look what is lurking to the left of those buildings and directly above the bloke, with the beret, on the bike ! Another 'beast' but with double pole. Ar$e.

I also hope those wagon turntables had gone by 1958?

Duck.

[Donington Road]

So a 'come to cookhouse door boys' bell then? Anyhow, look what is lurking to the left of those buildings and directly above the bloke, with the beret, on the bike ! Another 'beast' but with double pole. Ar$e.

I also hope those wagon turntables had gone by 1958?

Duck.

 

Its the time office, the bell being rung for start of shifts/breaks.

 

Plenty of beasts to keep you occupied for a lifetime, they went to Werrington Junction and beyond.

[The Stationmaster]

Herbert Nigel - it was a spoof!

 

The truth it that apart from passing through there in an HST 20 odd years ago, I've never actually been to Peterborough as far as I can recall, and I even remember going to places as diverse as Bridlington and Beverly!

 

The tongue in cheek response was spoofing a typical local newspaper piece but it also shows how these things are often amazingly convincing, yet works of total fiction. As a former journalist that still occasionally gets published in print I always advise people to consider carefully what you  believe that you read in the press, and even more so on the Interweb.

 

The clue to the spoof was in the date of the article - April 1st.

 

Apologies to anyone who has spent much time researching the local geography! and hope you all have a very Happy Christmas  (and that you can believe:-))

The giveaway was the bit about ringing the bell to warn of air raids

[St Enodoc]

 That isn't me.   Not even me thirty years ago. It is the lady who haunted my dreams back in the 60s, and who came back into memory when I saw an old clip on TV. And so, inspired by the example of one of our most regular contributors, whose avatar frequently pays homage to a particular lady, I decided that I'd like to see Jane more often. Much better than my photos too. Alas I can claim no credit for its creation - I wouldn't have a clue where to start. An appeal to our glorious leader was swiftly answered though.

Ah yes - I close my eyes and visualise her in Blow-Up...

[Herbert Nigel]

The giveaway was the bit about ringing the bell to warn of air raids

Actually the first give away is the suggestion that "Anglo Saxons" built a warning tower in the 8th century to protect against Vikings. By this point of our island's history, the Vikings already ruled East Anglia and most of the rest of what later became England. Unfortunately journalists (as Bigwordsmith seems to acknowledge) rarely actually check such detail. It spoils the story.

[rockershovel]

Which makes sense in that the bell would, presumably, be rung by the Time Office staff to denote meal breaks, and the large windows would provide light and ventilation and additionally, allow supervision from outside.

 

I see also that there was once a small porch or similar structure where the door now stands, on the side nearest the railway, which accounts for the obvious later alterations.

 

I see I was also mistaken in assuming Bourges Boulevard runs approximately N - S

[rockershovel]

Actually the first give away is the suggestion that "Anglo Saxons" built a warning tower in the 8th century to protect against Vikings. By this point of our island's history, the Vikings already ruled East Anglia and most of the rest of what later became England. Unfortunately journalists (as Bigwordsmith seems to acknowledge) rarely actually check such detail. It spoils the story.

Surely the FIRST "give-away" is being dated 1st April?..

[Richard E]

A, I see we now agree on my suggestion of it being a 'shift' bell

[stewartingram]

Just to clear up a point about the Fire Station. Its present site is only relevant to the rebuilding in the area, & nothing to do with the railway; prior to this rebuilding it was located elsewhere. I can't find a reference to this anywhere, but remember reading of it on a notice internally in the station when I was a radio engineer for the Fire Service. Incidentally, this is the last remaining Volunteer brigade in the country. Acting just like the many retained stations around the country, it has a special contract with the Cambridgeshire Fire Service, making it another retained station, but the men are entirely unpaid. Let us not forget the valuable service these dedicated guys do.

 

Stewart

Edited December 23, 2015 by stewartingram

[great northern]

Looking more closely at a 1904 map (it is hard to read even with a magnifying glass) and observing the brickwork.  I think the building with the tower is the oldest with the yellow brick and the section with blanked off windows and chimney is an extension to it.

 

On the map below, number 4 reads, as best as I can see, "Mess House"

There are four other small buildings around it, the small building just to the right of my number 4, attached to the 'mess House' is IMO the bell tower.

 

1 = Wagon Repair Shop

2 = Carpenters Shop

3 = Ladder Shop

4 = Mess House

5 = Engineers Offices

 

plan1904.jpg

 

edit: to change numbering on plan

Many thanks for posting that map Mick. It answers quite a lot of questions, apart from the purpose of the bell. I admit that I fell into the trap of applying present day thinking when trying to work out its purpose, but when you instead apply the technology of the time when it was built, all becomes much more clear. Virtually no-one would have had watches, so some means of informing the workforce when shifts started and finished, plus meal breaks, would have been needed, and a bell would be ideal. I don't know when hooters came in, presumably rather later? The description as the Mess Hall is surely the clincher.

 

Even in the days before Health and Safety, I can't see children being schooled in such close proximity to a very dangerous environment. It would have been a very noisy one too, I would think.

[bigwordsmith]

Never forget Fleet Street's famous motto 'Never let the facts get int he way of a good story'

 

I really should have waited until the end of March to post that one!

[great northern]

Well, another informative discussion, showing RMWeb at its best, IMO. Reasoned debate, sensible suggestions, leaving aside the Vikings, which was nevertheless nice light relief, and eventually the production of documentary evidence which surely gives a definitive answer. Brilliant, and thanks to all who contributed.

 

And so to some more pictures.

Still just playing around with angles here, but visually a very satisfactory result. Buildings which are in the wrong place nevertheless look right.

OK from side on too.Please note that with my customary genius I have succeeded in getting chimneys growing out of both the top feed and the dome. plus a very unusual form of double chimney too. Coachmann will be tearing his hair out.

 

You might be getting a bit of information overload on the DE side by now, so I swung the camera round, and found the Claud still sitting at the Excursion platform.

Looks very nice in black and white too.

[rockershovel]

The buildings may be a distortion of reality, but they are demonstrably relevant and they certainly apply the rules of artistic composition. A good solution, and much better than the previous one.

 

I don't know what the rules would have then been, but surely signalling by means of a steam whistle or hooter in an environment where such devices were all around would have been of little value? A bell makes perfect sense in context.

[coachmann]

Vikings Rule........speaking as a descendant ha ha.....

 

The side view of the Austerity makes a neat change and is likely a lot easier for you with no lattice posts to Photoshop a sky into.

[rockershovel]

Actually the first give away is the suggestion that "Anglo Saxons" built a warning tower in the 8th century to protect against Vikings. By this point of our island's history, the Vikings already ruled East Anglia and most of the rest of what later became England. Unfortunately journalists (as Bigwordsmith seems to acknowledge) rarely actually check such detail. It spoils the story.

Anyway, you can't see The Danish Invader from any part of the ECML, it's in Stamford

 

Oddly enough, you can't see The Silver Jubilee from tne railway either..

Edited December 23, 2015 by rockershovel

[rockershovel]

Vikings Rule........speaking as a descendant ha ha.....

 

The side view of the Austerity makes a neat change and is likely a lot easier for you with no lattice posts to Photoshop a sky into.

One thing I do find a bit distracting about these pictures, is that none of the locos have crew...

 

The Austerity picture, and following image of the excursion, actually highlights a question which had occurred to me but has answered itself in a roundabout way. When I first saw this thread, seeing all the references to professional model making and hand laid track, I did wonder why it wasn't EM. I've come to the conclusion, rightly or wrongly that this is because it is home to a large, miscellaneous fleet of mostly proprietary rolling stock accumulated over a long period of time and so, this would never have been feasible - is this correct?

[coachmann]

While building rolling stock to EM is no different to 00, I imagine Gilbert would have found it rather expensive having to have all his locos converted to EM. And visually, would the extra 1½mm between the rails have made such a great difference to this fine layout?  

[great northern]

The buildings may be a distortion of reality, but they are demonstrably relevant and they certainly apply the rules of artistic composition. A good solution, and much better than the previous one.

 

I don't know what the rules would have then been, but surely signalling by means of a steam whistle or hooter in an environment where such devices were all around would have been of little value? A bell makes perfect sense in context.

Ah yes, I never thought of that.

[great northern]

One thing I do find a bit distracting about these pictures, is that none of the locos have crew...

 

The Austerity picture, and following image of the excursion, actually highlights a question which had occurred to me but has answered itself in a roundabout way. When I first saw this thread, seeing all the references to professional model making and hand laid track, I did wonder why it wasn't EM. I've come to the conclusion, rightly or wrongly that this is because it is home to a large, miscellaneous fleet of mostly proprietary rolling stock accumulated over a long period of time and so, this would never have been feasible - is this correct?

 

Ah yes, I never thought of that.

 

 

While building rolling stock to EM is no different to 00, I imagine Gilbert would have found it rather expensive having to have all his locos converted to EM. And visually, would the extra 1½mm between the rails have made such a great difference to this fine layout?  

You are dead right about the crews, and I've actually managed to get some more. Now it is just a matter of fitting them. It is going to be a long job though, as there are still about 130 to be dealt with.

 

Coachmann is correct so far as EM is concerned. I already had a very large amount of locos and rolling stock from the previous layout, and I could not contemplate converting all of it. I also agree with Larry's last comment. Norman Saunders has done such a fine job that although I'm sure EM would have been "better", the difference would hardly have been noticeable.

[great northern]

I have become aware that there is some kind of "festive occasion" on the horizon. It seems that the staff of New England shed are also aware, and that some of them may view this with a slightly jaundiced eye, as this V2 was spotted running light through PN earlier.

There is of course heated debate as to whether the nameplate should be red backed in December 1958. The staff thought that they had made quite a neat job of this nameplate, but as always the camera is cruel, and does not lie.

[Donington Road]

Just to clear up a point about the Fire Station. Its present site is only relevant to the rebuilding in the area, & nothing to do with the railway; prior to this rebuilding it was located elsewhere. I can't find a reference to this anywhere, but remember reading of it on a notice internally in the staation when I was a radio engineer for the Fire Service. Incidentally, this is the last remaining Volunteer brigade in the country. Acting just like the many retained stations around the country, it has a special contract with the Cambridgeshire Fire Service, making it another retained station, but the men are entirely unpaid. Let us not forget the valuable service these dedicated guys do.

 

Stewart

 

The Volunteer's where located in King's Street and the full time City Brigade was in Queen's Street (near Perkins Engines if I recall)

When Queensgate Shopping Centre was built the the Volunteers moved to their present site.

[rockershovel]

I arrived in Peterborough around the time of the construction of Queensgate, I never knew the "old" town centre

[Richard E]

In 1948 the Volunteers were, indeed, in King Street (now part of Queensgate) but the City HQ was out at Dogsthorpe. The choice had been between the two full time stations in the city, Dogsthorpe and Oundle Road. The former was preferred by the CFO Walter 'Bill' Bunday. Oundle Road was subsequently closed as was Old Fletton. The Volunteer Brigade were housed at Queen Street for two years following the catastrophic fire at Robert Sayles in 1956 which damaged the Volunteer Station in King Street. The insurance claim for that fire was £250,000.

 

The current Dogsthorpe 5 bay station was built in 1964 on the same site as the previous, wartime, Dogsthorpe station.

 

(source: A History of Firefighting in Cambridgeshire. Eddie Baker)

 

Queen Street was the old City Fire Brigade station but I cannot, at present, find out when it closed other than it was some time in the 1940's. I can establish that it was in use as a Fire Station in 1920 though. I'll see if I can find out a bit more tonight.

 

Perkins Engines had their own brigade to cover the factory which was in Queen Street so possibly they took over the old City Brigade station at some point. Baker Perkins also had their own Factory Brigade.

 

Queensgate was opened in March 1982, the current Volunteer Fire Station was built in 1984.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Richard E

[rockershovel]

Where was the Oundle Road fire station? Is it the building now occupied by Tom Russo tyres?

[thegreenhowards]

Easier to reside a Bachmann SO

 

24112011143_a.jpg

 

I think I showed you a picture of this earlier in the year. I've a second set of sides done. Lots more t do though unless Hornby or Bachmann spring a surprise on us! Standard SO/SK along side

David,

 

I've tried both approaches, and one sits on each end of my Talisman rake

 

The first comprises Comet sides on an old Triang Hornby Mk 1 donor and was the first re-side that I attempted. This was cheap and relatively easy, but I feel is a less good end result than the Southern Pride approach. There is still a fair bit of work to do on the roof, and I should have done some mods to the underframe, but I've let that one slip! Of course if I had sacrificed a modern Hornby or Bachmann Mark 1 I might have achieved a better result, but at a significantly higher price than the Southern Pride kit.

 

 

This version is the Southern Pride kit which I'm quite pleased with, although as always the camera show up a few wobbles, particularly in the tables  . I intend to build another couple of these in due course.

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Andy