Peterborough North

[great northern]

Two reasons for posting this image, courtesy of peterboroughimages.co.uk. The first is to show where that ground disc actually was on the real thing. I'll have to ask Peter Leyland why we put it where it is. It is also an example though to show that real firemen didn't always get lamps on straight either.

That disc looks very close to the running lines. Perhaps that is why we put it further away. And sometimes I manage to get the bridge to look as though it is sloping down as well.

[New Haven Neil]

Quite right. Decisions, plural. Both.

 

Ah, I'm still married.....but....

[FPH 603]

Two reasons for posting this image, courtesy of peterboroughimages.co.uk. The first is to show where that ground disc actually was on the real thing. I'll have to ask Peter Leyland why we put it where it is. It is also an example though to show that real firemen didn't always get lamps on straight either.

60003-0861.jpg

That disc looks very close to the running lines. Perhaps that is why we put it further away. And sometimes I manage to get the bridge to look as though it is sloping down as well.

Nice picture, I wonder how that'll look if you were to recreate it on your layout!

[great northern]

Nice picture, I wonder how that'll look if you were to recreate it on your layout!

I've done quite a lot that look something like it, but I can have a go at this one. I don't have any MK1 Pullmans though.

[great northern]

More fish tonight, as 61200 spreads that lovely scent behind it. One of the advantages of a 20mph speed limit would be that you'd get the full benefit, and trapped under the roof as well, what an experience.

and the vans trailing off into the distance.

[stewartingram]

But that would also be mixed with the aroma from the local brickworks too!

 

Stewart

[Northroader]

The best place for a railway “smell” was Inverness in the ‘fifties. You had the low overall roof with a deadend wall trapping the air movement, then it was a mix of sulphur coal smoke, fish, and mailbags, lovely!

[great northern]

The camera has been at it again.   Just look at the ploughed field it saw on the platform in this shot.

 

and what did I see when I went up to clear this mess? Virtually nothing at all. What there was has now gone. There is a KX Goods- Dringhouses Class C on its way through next.

 

More heavy rain, no golf, and very little daylight, so probably no more photography either.

Edited January 2, 2018 by great northern

[great northern]

As predicted, no light, so no photography. I did find out though why I've been getting blurred vision. It's not too much red wine, it's all to do with a capsular bag. Apparently I have one in my eye, and it has misbehaved since my cataract operation. Nothing that five minutes of being zapped with a laser won't cure. I'm told. I bet it will be a lot longer than five minutes before it gets done though.

 

60862 on that Class C is out first image tonight.

then, some seven minutes later, in comes the 5.35pm Newcastle, frequented by the posher Tyneside types who were too tight fisted to pay a Pullman supplement.

Although Grantham lost all of its A1s in 1956, its engine crews retained their long standing high reputation, and even with single blast A3s still had quite a lot of work of this quality.

[jukebox]

I must say that second shot, looking through under the bridge works very well, Gilbert.

 

Nicely done!

 

Scott

Edited January 2, 2018 by jukebox

[great northern]

It is now 6.54pm at PN, and the low angled sun in the West shines on the side of Persimmon, as it slows for the stop.

The 5.35 Newcastle is shown as stopping to pick up passengers only. I've often wondered how that worked in practice. It was an 11 coach formation, so how could the station staff stop people getting off? They could, I suppose, be dissuaded from getting on at KX, but if they were determined enough, how could it be prevented? Anyway, having picked up only, as prescribed by the WTT, Persimmon now heads on towards Grantham, where no such restrictions regarding getting on or off applied, although only one minute more was allocated for the stop. Most trains that changed engines at Grantham were allowed six minutes for that purpose, but this one only got four, so Persimmon may well have carried on to the next stop at York, or even all the way to Newcastle?

[31A]

 

 

The 5.35 Newcastle is shown as stopping to pick up passengers only. I've often wondered how that worked in practice. It was an 11 coach formation, so how could the station staff stop people getting off? They could, I suppose, be dissuaded from getting on at KX, but if they were determined enough, how could it be prevented? 

 

 

 

I imagine the Peterborough stop would not be shown on the departure boards, timetable posters etc. at King's Cross, so that to all intents and purposes it appeared to be first stop Grantham.

 

Of course anybody who consulted the timetable book would realise what was going on (but could also read the footnote), but remember also tickets would be checked at the barrier at King's Cross and presumably anyone with a Peterborough ticket would be directed elsewhere.

[The Stationmaster]

I imagine the Peterborough stop would not be shown on the departure boards, timetable posters etc. at King's Cross, so that to all intents and purposes it appeared to be first stop Grantham.

 

Of course anybody who consulted the timetable book would realise what was going on (but could also read the footnote), but remember also tickets would be checked at the barrier at King's Cross and presumably anyone with a Peterborough ticket would be directed elsewhere.

 

That was of course the theory but in practice some people found out what was happening and took advantage - it used to happen quite a lot with various evening peak trains from Paddington which were advertised 'u' stop only at Reading.  There was one very simple remedy to this in the shape of Travelling Ticket Inspectors who could, and did, quite legitimately excess (fare) anyone travelling to Reading by adding on the difference in fare to the station at which the train was first booked to set down after leaving Paddington (in one case that happened to be Bristol Parkway while in another it was Westbury.

 

The more nasty solution, although only practicable when timetable alterations were required for Bank Holidays etc, was to take out the 'u' stop and that could have some very interesting effects on the regular dodgers of the procedure and meant they tended to get home somewhat later than they thought they would.

[great northern]

That was of course the theory but in practice some people found out what was happening and took advantage - it used to happen quite a lot with various evening peak trains from Paddington which were advertised 'u' stop only at Reading.  There was one very simple remedy to this in the shape of Travelling Ticket Inspectors who could, and did, quite legitimately excess (fare) anyone travelling to Reading by adding on the difference in fare to the station at which the train was first booked to set down after leaving Paddington (in one case that happened to be Bristol Parkway while in another it was Westbury.

 

The more nasty solution, although only practicable when timetable alterations were required for Bank Holidays etc, was to take out the 'u' stop and that could have some very interesting effects on the regular dodgers of the procedure and meant they tended to get home somewhat later than they thought they would.

That was what I anticipated Mike. There are always people who will find a way to take advantage. It is nice to know that they got caught sometimes. As a matter of interest, and taking into account the extra cost which policing this must have caused, why was this restriction applied in the first place? It can't have saved very much on the schedule, surely?

[great northern]

OK, I was up for the challenge of reproducing this picture.

Courtesy of peterboroughimages.co.uk as stated further up this page. I suspected that it couldn't quite be done before I started, but had a go anyway, not helped by the sun coming out and going in again every couple of minutes. I tried two slightly different angles, but there is no way that I can get around the very tight curve under the bridge. I couldn't be bothered to go further than finding a convenient and detachable tender, and the same goes for the carriage behind it. This is what I came up with.

The original was up in the red spectrum so far as colour saturation and tint is concerned, so I tried, not very successfully, to do the same, but I can't make Hornby green into something it isn't, though Tim will deal with that eventually, and my attempts to get a similar sky were frustrated because I lost all the subtleties of the original when lightening it. It's not bad though, and my lamps are straighter than on the original. As usual, I have no idea how the camera makes the loco's nameplate look as though it is in four jagged pieces. It isn't. it was fun trying to do this which is what matters.

[The Blue Streak]

That looks like a fine effort at reproducing the picture Gilbert.

 

Congratulations on PN making the Final few up for vote in the British Model railway Awards.

[great northern]

Another M&GN local from Kings Lynn means another Ivatt 4, captured on the last lap of its journey.

From the South comes the 5.00pm from KX. This was the slightly more upmarket version of the usual five set, all MK1, and with an FK, rather than a CK in the centre of the formation. Dante on duty today, but the HMRS Journal now tells me it was a 34A turn, and that in that week in July 58 when the survey took place 60015 and 60109 both appeared. 60015 came through only a little while back, so it couldn't be used, and I can't find 60109. I think it must have gone to be "Timmed".

Wonky lamps yet again, I'm afraid. How do they move between the fiddle yard and here? The Ivatt is already removing its stock, the Up main being needed very shortly.

[great northern]

It's raining again. Meanwhile, nearly sixty years ago, Dante is moving off towards its home shed, and meets another Grantham local as it slows to terminate .

Hard on the heels of Dante comes a J6, returning from afternoon duties on the Ramsey branch with the Holme pick up.

The full impact of what I just typed has only just sunk in. Nearly sixty years ago.

[The Stationmaster]

That was what I anticipated Mike. There are always people who will find a way to take advantage. It is nice to know that they got caught sometimes. As a matter of interest, and taking into account the extra cost which policing this must have caused, why was this restriction applied in the first place? It can't have saved very much on the schedule, surely?

 

The idea was usually to stop people using that particular train to travel to the station with the 'u' stop - which could potentially deprive longer distance passengers of the chance of getting a seat.   A 5.35pm departure would be a nice convenient time for people returning to Peterborough after a day trip to London, for whatever reason, but it was also a convenient departure for longer distance travel - hence keep the Peterborough folk off.

 

Normally the policing would probably be on teh train in any case although no doubt the Eastern did the same as the Western and had a 'go anywhere' gang of Ticket Inspectors who could occasionally (or frequently when not on other tasks) be put on a job like this as a deterrent (which would sometimes pay for itself with Excess Fares taken).

Edited January 4, 2018 by The Stationmaster

[Tony Wright]

Happy New Year, Gilbert (apologies for my greeting being a bit late).

 

Is the L1 on the all-stations Grantham-Peterborough stopper a Grantham loco? 

 

The reason I ask is that having given several talks now to retired Grantham railwaymen, they inform me that in their experience (they were all fireman at the time, any drivers having now died) their L1s only ever worked as far south as High Dyke. Yet, Ian Wilson informs me that he 'copped' at least two of Grantham's L1s at Peterborough North, so how did they get there I wonder? This was in 1958, before the intermediate stations were closed. Yesterday, he handed me a print of OWEN TUDOR on just such a parly at Stoke. 

 

I've never found a picture on an L1 on such a train, but have several showing A5s, B1s, B12s and K3s on these workings, as well as (even more numerous) shots of V2s and the Pacifics, either on running-in turns or saving a light engine path to get to either Grantham or Peterborough to pick up their next Class One workings. 

 

Rather than clutter up your thread with my pictures, I've put some L1 shots on Wright Writes working on Little Bytham. If you're wrong, then I'm wrong too regarding L1s working south of Stoke. 

[great northern]

The idea was usually to stop people using that particular train to travel to the station with the 'u' stop - which could potentially deprive longer distance passengers of the chance of getting a seat.   A 5.35pm departure would be a nice convenient time for people returning to Peterborough after a day trip to London, for whatever reason, but it was also a convenient departure for longer distance travel - hence keep the Peterborough folk off.

 

Normally the policing would probably be on teh train in any case although no doubt the Eastern did the same as the Western and had a 'go anywhere' gang of Ticket Inspectors who could occasionally (or frequently when not on other tasks) be put on a job like this as a deterrent (which would sometimes pay for itself with Excess Fares taken).

 I hadn't looked at it from that point of view Mike, but it now makes perfect sense. It would indeed have been a very convenient time, and a great temptation, for Peterborough passengers.

[great northern]

Happy New Year, Gilbert (apologies for my greeting being a bit late).

 

Is the L1 on the all-stations Grantham-Peterborough stopper a Grantham loco? 

 

The reason I ask is that having given several talks now to retired Grantham railwaymen, they inform me that in their experience (they were all fireman at the time, any drivers having now died) their L1s only ever worked as far south as High Dyke. Yet, Ian Wilson informs me that he 'copped' at least two of Grantham's L1s at Peterborough North, so how did they get there I wonder? This was in 1958, before the intermediate stations were closed. Yesterday, he handed me a print of OWEN TUDOR on just such a parly at Stoke. 

 

I've never found a picture on an L1 on such a train, but have several showing A5s, B1s, B12s and K3s on these workings, as well as (even more numerous) shots of V2s and the Pacifics, either on running-in turns or saving a light engine path to get to either Grantham or Peterborough to pick up their next Class One workings. 

 

Rather than clutter up your thread with my pictures, I've put some L1 shots on Wright Writes working on Little Bytham. If you're wrong, then I'm wrong too regarding L1s working south of Stoke. 

 And a Happy New Year to you also Tony. We've had this discussion on here before, and our friend Derek, (Cutler) also does not recall L1s on the stoppers. However, in Summer 58, apart from A3s, Grantham had but two B1s, two J6s two A5s and a few L1s on the passenger side. By then, the B12s had all gone, Jan 57 saw the last of them, though they look to have been regulars on these trains until then. I can't find a photo of a Grantham L1 at Peterborough either, but having said that I've only seen one photo of an A5 there either, plus the one you know about on Stoke bank.

 

On my visits to Grantham around this time I remember the A5s being used a lot on the Nottingham/Derby turns, together with many Colwick engines, and L1s from both there and Grantham. I agree that Pacifics and V2s were used, though I suspect many were on the KX- Grantham trains rather than the ones running only Grantham- Peterborough. Unless those duties were nearly all New England diagrams, which seems doubtful, it seems to me that any of Grantham's very small stud of passenger locos of Class 5 or below must on occasions have hauled these trains.

 

Anyway, it seemed rude not to support Hornby and encourage them to keep doing Eastern engines, so mine, which was a Grantham engine for quite a time, doubles up as both a Hitchin loco on the afternoon Hitchin - Peterborough turn, and as a Grantham loco as depicted. It left Grantham for 34A in April 58 and didn't return till 1960, but I've ignored that inconvenient fact.

[great northern]

We went for a paddle today, but didn't have to go anywhere near the seaside in order to do it. Some bracing fresh air was to be had though, which was rather nice. As to railway happenings, we now have another of those FO workings, this one a Leeds/Bradford, hauled appropriately by a Copley Hill A1.

We had arrived at a conclusion that the Newcastle reliefs had end door stock and four compartment brakes, whereas the West Riding ones had all door seconds and three compartment brakes. Then along comes this one.

 

All formed from loose stock, and correct save for the second CK, which should be another Thompson. I do have one, but coupling incompatibility meant I couldn't use it. It all adds to the variety though, doesn't it? And not a MK1 to be seen.

[CUTLER2579]

 Gilbert/Tony

 

I have a Model Railway magazine from the 80's with an article about the "High Dyke" layout built by Roy Jackson, John Phillips & Geoff Kent and one Photograph shows such a working at High Dyke heading south. In those days Roy was adamant that it was a legitamate working, but I don't ever recall seeing an L1 on such a working.

 

They regularly worked from Grantham to High Dyke either on their own or  in Tandem with 02's.and in both cases with a brake van or two for transferring crews, both going on duty and finishing their shift.. One such working was soon after lunch which was always topped off with a Lyons Individual Fruit Pie..

 

Regards,Derek

 

[great northern]

 

 Gilbert/Tony

 

I have a Model Railway magazine from the 80's with an article about the "High Dyke" layout built by Roy Jackson, John Phillips & Geoff Kent and one Photograph shows such a working at High Dyke heading south. In those days Roy was adamant that it was a legitamate working, but I don't ever recall seeing an L1 on such a working.

 

They regularly worked from Grantham to High Dyke either on their own or  in Tandem with 02's.and in both cases with a brake van or two for transferring crews, both going on duty and finishing their shift.. One such working was soon after lunch which was always topped off with a Lyons Individual Fruit Pie..

 

Regards,Derek

 

 Do you remember what actually did work these locals Derek? I can't see that Pacifics and V2s would have been used on the five coach and less trains on a regular basis. They were ideal for the B12s, but what took over after they had gone?