Peterborough North

[Tony Wright]

The princess coronation and now the streamlined version are retooled. Could the a3 recieve the same treatment for 2019? From a customers point of view it doesn't need it, but neither did either coronation version, but from a manufacturers point of view, they may be looking at simpler assembly techiques.

David,

 

It's a pity the valve gear on Hornby's A3 is not revisited. Apart from its limited load-haulage, that's why I've moved any I had on. From my observations, in just about every position, the front end of the eccentric rod is lower than the end attached to the return crank. This is because the expansion link is too long or its position in the die block is too low. In motion it looks wrong. It can be corrected, but it entails a fair bit of work. 

 

 

This is a Hornby A3 I modified some little time ago (since sold-on). Note the position of the pivot at the front end of the eccentric rod where it's attached to the bottom end of the expansion link. It's below the centre of the driving axles. It should be above them. Have a look at Fig 104 in the RCTS Pt 2A (appropriately showing an A3 at Peterborough North). The rods are just about in the same position as on the model, and the difference in the angle is apparent.

 

The Hornby A4's gear isn't as bad.

 

I thought long and hard about posting this, because I don't want to take up space on Gilbert's (most-interesting) thread, but are all (potential) customers not bothered? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited January 8, 2018 by Tony Wright

[stewartingram]

It was the original Patriot which tempted me Phil, and apparently they were seen on goods trains from Crewe. There will be no cash available for such things now though, as it will have to be devoted to more rolling stock.

For what it's worth, whilst I was still at school in Cambridge I lived alongside the St.Ives loop (Cambridge-St.Ives-March). One foggy afternoon (my trainspotting books would give me the date but it would mean a BIG search),, the LC gates closed, and 45541 came out of the fog on a goods. Not too long after, she returned west with just a brake van in tow. I'd love to know the route, I THINK she was a Nuneaton engine at the time? It must have been through Pb, whether it was East station and the (now) NVR route, or the Oakham direction I just don't know.

And she was absolutely filthy too.

 

Stewart

[great northern]

David,

 

It's a pity the valve gear on Hornby's A3 is not revisited. Apart from its limited load-haulage, that's why I've moved any I had on. From my observations, in just about every position, the front end of the eccentric rod is lower than the end attached to the return crank. This is because the expansion link is too long or its position in the die block is too low. In motion it looks wrong. It can be corrected, but it entails a fair bit of work. 

 

modified Hornby A3 02.jpg

 

This is a Hornby A3 I modified some little time ago (since sold-on). Note the position of the pivot at the front end of the eccentric rod where it's attached to the bottom end of the expansion link. It's below the centre of the driving axles. It should be above them. Have a look at Fig 104 in the RCTS Pt 2A (appropriately showing an A3 at Peterborough North). The rods are just about in the same position as on the model, and the difference in the angle is apparent.

 

The Hornby A4's gear isn't as bad.

 

I thought long and hard about posting this, because I don't want to take up space on Gilbert's (most-interesting) thread, but are all (potential) customers not bothered? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 I can only speak for myself Tony. It is a detail of which I was not aware. I tend to look at things as a whole, and perhaps without sufficient concentration, so I seldom get past my test, which is "does it look like a ........"  To me, the Hornby offering does capture the look of an A3, and so I am satisfied, perhaps too easily. I'm not saying I accept everything, far from it. The earlier Hornby A4 front end always offended my eye, just to give one example. I'll be pedantic about which type of tender an A3 should have too, and quite a lot of other details, but some pass me by.

[Mallard60022]

For what it's worth, whilst I was still at school in Cambridge I lived alongside the St.Ives loop (Cambridge-St.Ives-March). One foggy afternoon (my trainspotting books would give me the date but it would mean a BIG search),, the LC gates closed, and 45541 came out of the fog on a goods. Not too long after, she returned west with just a brake van in tow. I'd love to know the route, I THINK she was a Nuneaton engine at the time? It must have been through Pb, whether it was East station and the (now) NVR route, or the Oakham direction I just don't know.

And she was absolutely filthy too.

 

Stewart

Oh was not that just the pure joy of spotting back in them good old days? Maybe not the fog, however the possibility that something special might turn up.

As far as Pats go, I was on an overnight Plymouth to Newcastle at Temple Meads in 1962, (probably Easter time?), it must have been around midnight. Was watching a dirty Hall slipping wildly and making huge fireworks trying to deal with a long Parcels train and then when I went and looked out the opposite side, there by the Signal Box east of Bath Road Shed  were two of the three Bristol Barrow Road's unrebuilt Pats. Lovely. Godiva and Royal Signals I think it was. Recently I read that they used to work a lot of overnight parcels up to Brum I believe it was. I wonder if those two were about to take over from the Hall? Who knows.

Sorry Gilbert, drifted off into nostalgic history there.

Phil

[Tony Wright]

 I can only speak for myself Tony. It is a detail of which I was not aware. I tend to look at things as a whole, and perhaps without sufficient concentration, so I seldom get past my test, which is "does it look like a ........"  To me, the Hornby offering does capture the look of an A3, and so I am satisfied, perhaps too easily. I'm not saying I accept everything, far from it. The earlier Hornby A4 front end always offended my eye, just to give one example. I'll be pedantic about which type of tender an A3 should have too, and quite a lot of other details, but some pass me by.

Thanks Gilbert,

 

I take your point, but the gear always looks odd to me. 

 

I suppose part of it comes from having built more sets of LNER Walschaerts valve gear than I care to remember, so, perhaps, notice these things. 

 

Another thing I find irritating on the Hornby A3 is how the wiggly smokebox pipes have been duplicated on both sides. The higher one (with a sort of circular 'tap' at the end) should only be on the opposite side to the drive. On a couple I had (though not the one in the picture), I'd carved them off on the nearside (by my period, every A3 was LH drive) and added some real wire (5Amp fusewire). It does make a difference. 

 

 

I think the Markits bogie wheels also improves the look of the front end. Had I been keeping my Hornby A3s, I think I'd have made the semi-circular cut-outs for the bogie wheels smaller as well. 

 

I wonder if one can be too fussy over detail?  

[micklner]

The photo shows (when its not a recent ski ramp version) how good the quality of the detail is on the Hornby A3, whether slightly modified or as supplied . Well done to Hornby !!

[great northern]

Thanks Gilbert,

 

I take your point, but the gear always looks odd to me. 

 

I suppose part of it comes from having built more sets of LNER Walschaerts valve gear than I care to remember, so, perhaps, notice these things. 

 

Another thing I find irritating on the Hornby A3 is how the wiggly smokebox pipes have been duplicated on both sides. The higher one (with a sort of circular 'tap' at the end) should only be on the opposite side to the drive. On a couple I had (though not the one in the picture), I'd carved them off on the nearside (by my period, every A3 was LH drive) and added some real wire (5Amp fusewire). It does make a difference. 

 

Loco improve 07.jpg

 

I think the Markits bogie wheels also improves the look of the front end. Had I been keeping my Hornby A3s, I think I'd have made the semi-circular cut-outs for the bogie wheels smaller as well. 

 

I wonder if one can be too fussy over detail?  

We are all different, thank goodness, so what is acceptable to one person may not be to another. I think it is more important to be tolerant of other's right to differ than to be censorious of that with which we don't agree, or can't see the point. I'm not overly fussy about some aspects of model railways, but I'm very fussy, for example, about people who use mobile phones while driving. I don't think people's right to differ allows them to ignore laws or rules they don't want to observe, but there are a lot of people who don't agree with me!

[great northern]

Back to 1958 now, a time before mobile phones, tweets and other such things. Here's a view of Crescent Bridge box, from which the sound of bells could often be heard, but for a vital purpose.

Not bedded in yet, so please ignore the gap. I think I shall intersperse these photos in which nothing happens with a view of a train every time, so here is a closer look at 60056.

Tomorrow I shall post shots of the full formation, as it is another interesting one.

[Woodcock29]

David,

 

It's a pity the valve gear on Hornby's A3 is not revisited. Apart from its limited load-haulage, that's why I've moved any I had on. From my observations, in just about every position, the front end of the eccentric rod is lower than the end attached to the return crank. This is because the expansion link is too long or its position in the die block is too low. In motion it looks wrong. It can be corrected, but it entails a fair bit of work. 

 

modified Hornby A3 02.jpg

 

This is a Hornby A3 I modified some little time ago (since sold-on). Note the position of the pivot at the front end of the eccentric rod where it's attached to the bottom end of the expansion link. It's below the centre of the driving axles. It should be above them. Have a look at Fig 104 in the RCTS Pt 2A (appropriately showing an A3 at Peterborough North). The rods are just about in the same position as on the model, and the difference in the angle is apparent.

 

The Hornby A4's gear isn't as bad.

 

I thought long and hard about posting this, because I don't want to take up space on Gilbert's (most-interesting) thread, but are all (potential) customers not bothered? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

Tony

In my view the expansion link is too long and the die block might be marginally too low (on the Hornby A4s the die block is set much higher up). I've been thinking about modifying mine by shortening the expansion links but as I have 9 (3xLNER A1,1xLNER A3 and 3xBR A3s) its not a small task.

 

The Hornby B17 also has expansion links that are too long. On my LNER one I shortened the section at the bottom, which interestingly also was angled forward when it should have been backwards. I actually changed the expansion links from one side to the other to correct this aspect as well. It looks so much better now, but did entail dismantling a fair bit of the valve gear bug then I've always loved playing around with valve gear. The photo shows I need to complete the weathering of the valve gear and chassis!

Andrew

[great northern]

So now to the formation of the 6.35 Hull.

BZ BG

TSO TSO*

TSO* FK*

BSO* RF

RF(again) FO

BG at rear.

 

Why the catering is sandwiched between two brakes, I cannot fathom. I've checked the book, and though it is marked to come off at Doncaster and later be forwarded to Leeds, there is nothing to say it is locked and out of service until it gets there. I've also seen an RK rather than an RF in the formation,which also seems a bit strange. It belatedly occurs to me that it would be much easier to remove the last three at Doncaster if so placed, rather than have more complicated shunting to take them out of the middle.

 

I'll move on the something more simple, namely another still life scene.

[great northern]

Not much to report really. A damp grey dismal day, and golf to match. Back to 1958 hurriedly then, and another look at 60056. This is a relatively short train, and the loco won't need to take water, so it can stop further down the platform, thus avoiding being obscured by water cranes and such like. Despite all entreaties though, the spotters refuse to get out of the way. Shouldn't they be at home getting on with homework anyway?

then some more still life, this time looking North.

[great northern]

Visitors today, duck and Steve, and an appontment first, so I must get on. A view from Platform 2 shows 60056 standing patiently, while in the distance another WD is about to clank by on the Up.

That Kirk TSO doesn't look very good, does it?

On the still life side, we have a monochrome view from the forecourt and along Station Road.

This kind of shot reminds me how much still needs to be done. No wonder model railways are never finished.

[stewartingram]

Not much to report really. A damp grey dismal day, and golf to match. Back to 1958 hurriedly then, and another look at 60056. This is a relatively short train, and the loco won't need to take water, so it can stop further down the platform, thus avoiding being obscured by water cranes and such like. Despite all entreaties though, the spotters refuse to get out of the way. Shouldn't they be at home getting on with homework anyway?

56.JPG

then some more still life, this time looking North.

DE 1.JPG

I thought you said it was August, so school holidays & no homework?

 

Stewart

[great northern]

I thought you said it was August, so school holidays & no homework?

 

Stewart

Latest score:- Stewart 5 Gilbert 0.

[great northern]

A happy three hours or so spent with Phil and Steve, some talk about strange things called Maunsells, discussion of LNER buffet cars, and other matters. Then a meeting to chair this evening, but a short one for once. No trains ran today, so its a good job there are some in store. We'll start with the WD again, though it has now crept considerably closer.

and for variety another shot taken from the hotel garden, but on a different angle.

[petrovich]

A happy three hours or so spent with Phil and Steve, some talk about strange things called Maunsells, discussion of LNER buffet cars, and other matters. Then a meeting to chair this evening, but a short one for once. No trains ran today, so its a good job there are some in store. We'll start with the WD again, though it has now crept considerably closer.

WD close.JPG

and for variety another shot taken from the hotel garden, but on a different angle.

across garden.JPG

The second image (the sepia one or similar too ) is very good.

 

Regards

 

Peter

[great northern]

I'm resolved to have a nice quiet day today, no deadlines and nothing to be done in a hurry. The featured train this morning certainly wasn't in a hurry either. Here is the 8.10pm Grantham, calling at Essendine, Little Bytham and Corby Glen, and allotted 56 minutes for the 29 miles. B1 power is more than sufficient, the formation being the MK1 five set which arrived as the 5.00pm from KX.

 

Next we have a close up of the Parcels office area on the Up side.

[JeffP]

Why does 61113 have two holes in the smokebox?

[cctransuk]

Why does 61113 have two holes in the smokebox?

 

Removal of (model) nameplate for renumbering?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[great northern]

Why does 61113 have two holes in the smokebox?

 

 

Removal of (model) nameplate for renumbering?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Thanks John, that is correct. However, I had myself noticed how prominent those holes look on a close up like this, and so had prepared a press release in case it proved necessary. It goes like this. 61113 entered Plant in March 1958 for a general overhaul, and was returned to traffic in early April. That is why it is rather clean for a New England engine. During the overhaul, the loco received a 100A boiler from a named locomotive. ( All of this is correct up to now, by the way.)  I had hoped to be able to claim that the holes were indeed there because someone had forgotten to fill them in after the plates had been removed from a named B1 which had previously carried this boiler. Sadly, I can't, as the named engine concerned was in fact a B17, 61622 to be precise. It was nearly a good try though, don't you think?

[great northern]

Light is again in short supply in the Nottingham area today, but I did go up to run some trains. The first one was a Class H goods which would use the Down slow. Meanwhile, waiting time at Platform 6 was a 4F with a Leicester train. The loco for the goods was an 02, which set off as instructed. I then became aware that the 4F had also set off, which it had not been asked to do. Very occasionally I have found that a short can cause this to happen, so I spent some time looking for one, with no success.

 

Eventually, the penny dropped. The 02 is 63957. The 4F is 43957. I have given both four digit numbers, the last four. Doh!  I suppose both have never been on the layout at the same time before. Some reprogramming will now occur.

[petrovich]

I'm resolved to have a nice quiet day today, no deadlines and nothing to be done in a hurry. The featured train this morning certainly wasn't in a hurry either. Here is the 8.10pm Grantham, calling at Essendine, Little Bytham and Corby Glen, and allotted 56 minutes for the 29 miles. B1 power is more than sufficient, the formation being the MK1 five set which arrived as the 5.00pm from KX.

1113.JPG

 

Next we have a close up of the Parcels office area on the Up side.

parcels detail.JPG

Again a great image is no. 2 looks almost real, not over weathered as some are. Bye the way image image no.1 is not bad. 

[great northern]

Again a great image is no. 2 looks almost real, not over weathered as some are. Bye the way image image no.1 is not bad. 

That's good of you. I think it says more about Peter Leyland's modelling skills than my photography though.

[great northern]

And so to the evening pictures. The last train on the M&GN is the 8.30pm to Melton Constable, and it is at least possible that until recently it could have been a Claud at the head, as Melton still had one or two. By now though, it should be an Ivatt. On this day though, there was a March Claud at Peterborough which needed to get home, and so it was put on this train to get as far as South Lynn. From there it could reverse to Kings Lynn, and get home via the GE. From what I have read, engines were always changed at South Lynn anyway, so I've decided that I can get away with it, which is all that matters really. It has backed down quite a long time before departure, so there is plenty of time to admire it.

Then there is another elevated view into the DE area, but as usual we won't ask questions as to how the photographer got to this elevated position.

Quite striking, actually.

[cctransuk]

 

 

Not meaning to be picky - but when was the general use of barrels superceded by steel drums?

 

Oil drums and 'Jerry' cans were in general use in WW2 - surely barrels were more associated with pubs and breweries in the postwar period?

 

... or are we looking at the Railwaymen's Social Club here?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.