Point Motors

[Holby Railway]

recently i purchased several point motors, somebody i knew was going to do the job, over a year later its still waiting to be done, when challenged last week he said it wont be ready to start for at least another year, so i got rid of him.

 

is there anybody on here PLEASE that would be willing to fit them for me, (currently im awaiting their return) they do not have any wiring but, if somebody tells me what wire and how much is needed it can be provided, im not expecting the work to be done free, but i do have a budget, im in Birmingham, anybody feel like helping please, i think there are 28 altogether.....

 

There are many issues why i cant do them

A) i dont do soldering

B) i dont understand electrics

C) i have mobility issues which prevent me standing for any period of time, thats the main reason i need point motors.

D) eyesight no longer sufficient to do this type of work even if i could

 

PLEASE CAN ANYBODY HELP ME ?

 

[GrumpyPenguin]

It would help people understand/appreciate what was involved if you posted some images &/oe details such as type of motor/poiny above/below board stc.

[ITG]

9 hours ago, chiefpenguin said:

It would help people understand/appreciate what was involved if you posted some images &/oe details such as type of motor/poiny above/below board stc.

I agree. People’s experience may be specific to gauge/scale, DC v DCC, solenoid v slow switch etc, under v over board. A few clues may help to motivate potential helpers if they know they would be working on familiar ground.

I hope you find someone local, or what about trying the local club?

Ian

[RexAshton]

49 minutes ago, ITG said:

I agree. People’s experience may be specific to gauge/scale, DC v DCC, solenoid v slow switch etc, under v over board. A few clues may help to motivate potential helpers if they know they would be working on familiar ground.

I hope you find someone local, or what about trying the local club?

Ian

I agree. An email to your local club secretary would almost certainly get a reply.

[kevinlms]

I had a similar request to assist someone to sort out some DCC issues on his layout about 2 or 3 years ago.

 

At the time he was going into hospital for an op, so I understood that he was going to call me later, when he was ready.

However, I was later told that he had moved into an aged care facility and so I presumed that the layout was gone!

 

Last week I accidentally dialled his number and had a conversation with him and I brought up the change of address issue. He told me that there was no way, he was going to one of those places! He also mentioned that a number of people had promised to help him out, but everyone has either not turned up, or looked and abandoned him! It appears that he has 6 loops of track and sidings, but only one loop works - so very disappointing for him.

 

So it looks like a have a task after all!

 

My point of posting, is that communication is the key, to what happens, if indeed anything.

 

I'm not going to volunteer Holby, as a bit far to come!

[Holby Railway]

sorry guys i did not realise i had not posted enough detail, i shall attempt to correct this, firstly i have lived here 40 years so im in no hurry to go anywhere else, im only just 60 so old folks home is not an option, but then, it never will be (i hope).

 

Right basics, HCR (Holby City Railway) is a DC 00 gauge railway (not doing DCC) ideally i would like the motors under the board but will bow to experience if they have to be above then c'est la vie, it is horseshoe shaped, with runround loops at both ends and a passing loop with sidings in the middle, i shall endeavour to attach relevant pics now, as for what type they are, im sorry i dont know, it was a job lot off Flea Bay, 28 in total, im not sure but i think we only require 22 to be connected, once i know how much wire and what sort i would purchase it so other than solder and labour all expenses should covered.

[ITG]

Another key question or two, which will define the nature of the task.

Are your baseboards fixed in position or removable? If removable, how big are the baseboards? If fixed in position, are the cabinets etc below the baseboards removable?

These matters will go a long way to determine if it’s possible to easily access to (a) be able to fit below the board and/or (b) hide wiring and possibly rods if fitting above the board.

If the task becomes fitting above the board, then as indicated above, wiring will still ideally be below the board, but also how are the visible point motors to be disguised in an already existing layout.

Do any of the location for said motors conflict with underboard bracing or other cabling etc?

Had you thought how to control these motors? Switches? Mimic panel? Where would either be located/mounted?

 

It’s important to define what the task actually is, as whoever helps needs to be clear about what is expected. I don’t want to throw cold water on your plans, but I personally would not want to fit 20 odd motors below the board IF the baseboards are fixed.  It’s quite some job, of being bent under looking upwards to some time. But good luck.

Ian

[Michael Hodgson]

Those are Peco solenoid point motors, designed to fit under the point and clip into it, under the moving tie bar.

I'm too far away so I can't give you practical help to install them, but it may help if I explain a few of the options.

To fit them under the board it would be necessary to lift the track and cut a recangular hole to accommodate them.  This might be a bit difficult in a few places as it looks as though some are above a board joint, so there is presumably timber as well as baseboard material to cut.

 

An easier approach would be to use their point motor bases - sorry,  more equipment to acquire, not just wire !

https://peco-uk.com/products/turnout-motor-adaptor-base-with-over-centre-spring

these fit above the board, and you the clip the motor into them. It looks as though you have space to do this at least for some - sometimes other tracks etc make this approach unworkable.  They can be concealed by using somtheing like a lineside hut.

 

You also need a means of operating them.  There are several ways of doing this, individual point switches or levers ("passing contact" type) , perhaps a stud contact system on the control panel, maybe a diode matrix.   They will require a power supply - an auxiliary 16v supply on a power pack may be good enough, and a Capacitor Discharge Unit (CDU) may be helpful.

 

As regards the wire, each point is fed by three single core wires, one connecting each side to its controlling switch, the other side of which is connected to one side of the power supply, and the third wire is a common return which goes from all point motors to the other side of the power supply.   The total length would depend on the routing of the wires,

 

PS - it may be convenient to mount some above and some below the board, depending on practical issues such as baseboard framing problems.

Edited March 13 by Michael Hodgson

[Phil Parker]

Step 4 in this series might help you - https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/techniques//building-a-micro-layout-step-by-step

[Michael Hodgson]

8 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

Step 4 in this series might help you - https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/techniques//building-a-micro-layout-step-by-step

 

Good explanantion of how they fit below the board.  Unfortunately the motors photographed by the OP have much shorter actuating rods, so to use them the rods would have to be extended - this can be done by soldering on an extension, connecting it by means of a short piece of brass tube with the right inside diameter to take the rods.

[Holby Railway]

1 hour ago, ITG said:

Another key question or two, which will define the nature of the task.

Are your baseboards fixed in position or removable? If removable, how big are the baseboards? If fixed in position, are the cabinets etc below the baseboards removable?

These matters will go a long way to determine if it’s possible to easily access to (a) be able to fit below the board and/or (b) hide wiring and possibly rods if fitting above the board.

If the task becomes fitting above the board, then as indicated above, wiring will still ideally be below the board, but also how are the visible point motors to be disguised in an already existing layout.

Do any of the location for said motors conflict with underboard bracing or other cabling etc?

Had you thought how to control these motors? Switches? Mimic panel? Where would either be located/mounted?

 

It’s important to define what the task actually is, as whoever helps needs to be clear about what is expected. I don’t want to throw cold water on your plans, but I personally would not want to fit 20 odd motors below the board IF the baseboards are fixed.  It’s quite some job, of being bent under looking upwards to some time. But good luck.

Ian

Boards are fixed, they are more like shelves held up by brackets, everything under the boards can be moved, Station 1 is slightly more difficult in that it on a windowsill, built up (dont know how) underneath is accessible but the front of the board (blanking boards) need to be unscrewed for access then replaced, control is by switches, a box has been built (i do not have pics) and as far as i know the box is already prepared, switches in place and wired in, power will be provided by the controller, and has been tested once to be sure all was in working order, some adjustments to the railway may be possible to accommodate motors, but that is not something assessed so far - whoever does it, will be able to say what needs to happen or not as it goes, and will find everything easily discussed and then any issues can be resolved, they will find that much groundwork has been achieved so far but now things have reached a halt

[Holby Railway]

3 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Those are Peco solenoid point motors, designed to fit under the point and clip into it, under the moving tie bar.

I'm too far away so I can't give you practical help to install them, but it may help if I explain a few of the options.

To fit them under the board it would be necessary to lift the track and cut a recangular hole to accommodate them.  This might be a bit difficult in a few places as it looks as though some are above a board joint, so there is presumably timber as well as baseboard material to cut.

 

An easier approach would be to use their point motor bases - sorry,  more equipment to acquire, not just wire !

https://peco-uk.com/products/turnout-motor-adaptor-base-with-over-centre-spring

these fit above the board, and you the clip the motor into them. It looks as though you have space to do this at least for some - sometimes other tracks etc make this approach unworkable.  They can be concealed by using somtheing like a lineside hut.

 

You also need a means of operating them.  There are several ways of doing this, individual point switches or levers ("passing contact" type) , perhaps a stud contact system on the control panel, maybe a diode matrix.   They will require a power supply - an auxiliary 16v supply on a power pack may be good enough, and a Capacitor Discharge Unit (CDU) may be helpful.

 

As regards the wire, each point is fed by three single core wires, one connecting each side to its controlling switch, the other side of which is connected to one side of the power supply, and the third wire is a common return which goes from all point motors to the other side of the power supply.   The total length would depend on the routing of the wires,

 

PS - it may be convenient to mount some above and some below the board, depending on practical issues such as baseboard framing problems.

Boards are fixed, they are more like shelves held up by brackets, everything under the boards can be moved, Station 1 is slightly more difficult in that it on a windowsill, built up (dont know how) underneath is accessible but the front of the board (blanking boards) need to be unscrewed for access then replaced, control is by switches, a box has been built (i do not have pics) and as far as i know the box is already prepared, switches in place and wired in, power will be provided by the controller, and has been tested once to be sure all was in working order, some adjustments to the railway may be possible to accommodate motors, but that is not something assessed so far - whoever does it, will be able to say what needs to happen or not as it goes, and will find everything easily discussed and then any issues can be resolved, they will find that much groundwork has been achieved so far but now things have reached a halt

 

 

Model Railways...... theres not much else is there ?  🚂

 

 

[ITG]

 

3 hours ago, Holby Railway said:

Boards are fixed, they are more like shelves held up by brackets, everything under the boards can be moved, Station 1 is slightly more difficult in that it on a windowsill, built up (dont know how) underneath is accessible but the front of the board (blanking boards) need to be unscrewed for access then replaced, control is by switches, a box has been built (i do not have pics) and as far as i know the box is already prepared, switches in place and wired in, power will be provided by the controller, and has been tested once to be sure all was in working order, some adjustments to the railway may be possible to accommodate motors, but that is not something assessed so far - whoever does it, will be able to say what needs to happen or not as it goes, and will find everything easily discussed and then any issues can be resolved, they will find that much groundwork has been achieved so far but now things have reached a halt

The combinations of all the mentioned factors (fixed boards, pre laid track, board joints, type of motor etc) suggest this isn’t a job for an odd day.  The need to assess each point location and its own peculiarities concerning the various factors, and then to implement the solution doesn’t indicate a production line approach; rather a solve and fix one at a time approach. I can’t help but feel your best bet, as mentioned previously, is to approach your local club, as if they have the will, they can share the task amongst more than one pair of hands. Some club members may not have much space for their own layout at home, and thus may welcome the opportunity to have a go.

Again, I wish you well, but as I’m some distance away and am working on my own layout at present, time is not on my side, so, as they say in Dragons Den, I’m out. Sorry.

 

PS. An after thought…. I wonder if an alternative point motor would ease the accessibility and effectiveness of the task. I’m thinking MTB MP1s. They may, in my experience, be easier to fit above board, and the way in which a rod from the hidden motor to turnout can be shaped may also help disguising. But they aren’t cheap. Sorry if that’s way off your agenda, but hopefully worth a mention.

Ian

[Holby Railway]

looks like im gonna selll up then

 

nobody anywhere willing to help, thanks guys

 

HCR is no more......

[kevinlms]

29 minutes ago, Holby Railway said:

looks like im gonna selll up then

 

nobody anywhere willing to help, thanks guys

 

HCR is no more......

A disappointing view, after some good advice.

[DCB]

28 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

A disappointing view, after some good advice.

The guy needs actual physical help not armchair advice.   He wants someone to FIT the point motors,  Its line 3 of the original post.    There must be someone in Birmingham who can give him a hand surely. 

[kevinlms]

3 hours ago, DCB said:

The guy needs actual physical help not armchair advice.   He wants someone to FIT the point motors,  Its line 3 of the original post.    There must be someone in Birmingham who can give him a hand surely. 

You're closer than me!

[ITG]

5 hours ago, Holby Railway said:

looks like im gonna selll up then

 

nobody anywhere willing to help, thanks guys

 

HCR is no more......

But have you tried the local clubs as suggested?

[Graham108]

16 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

Good explanantion of how they fit below the board.  Unfortunately the motors photographed by the OP have much shorter actuating rods, so to use them the rods would have to be extended - this can be done by soldering on an extension, connecting it by means of a short piece of brass tube with the right inside diameter to take the rods.

PECO sell (or used to) the relevant extension bits

[Harlequin]

6 hours ago, Holby Railway said:

looks like im gonna selll up then

 

nobody anywhere willing to help, thanks guys

 

HCR is no more......

It's less than 24 hours since you posted photos, way too soon to give up!

 

Give it time and try to contact a local club, as advised.

 

[Phil Bullock]

And Birmingham covers a large geographical area… a more specific location might help

[Phil Parker]

7 hours ago, Holby Railway said:

looks like im gonna selll up then

 

nobody anywhere willing to help, thanks guys

 

HCR is no more......

 

That's your choice, but you need to be realistic - what you are asking is for someone to come along, fit the point motors (and relay the track if there isn't a slot for the point motor arm) and then wire up the whole significant sized layout up. That's a massive commitment - even a professional would be looking at a couple of weeks full-time.  Perhaps it's time to start asking for recommendations in that direction if your budget will stretch?

 

If you want hobbyists, then it's more likely to take 6 months of their spare time.

 

My suggestion - JOIN a local model railway club. Enjoy running on their layouts and use your skills to do the bits you can do. That way, you make local friends who might be persuaded to work on your project too.

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

It's less than 24 hours since you posted photos, way too soon to give up!

 

Give it time and try to contact a local club, as advised.

 

Waited a year for some previously offered help, comes on here and in just over 2 days gives up!

[Holby Railway]

im in B16

Tried MRC at Bournville, Solihull & Warley no response after 2 wks that why i posted on here,

 

Wiring is not as complicated as you may think being DC its just 2 wires, obviously point motors need to wired, if anybody wants to be part HCR that can be done, i have ideas that are parked for now but, of somebody came onboard (not with money) then maybe they could be looked at again

[Phil Parker]

11 minutes ago, Holby Railway said:

Tried MRC at Bournville, Solihull & Warley no response after 2 wks that why i posted on here,

 

When you say "tried", did you just email them the same appeal for help, or actually go down and meet them? If it's the former, most clubs receive a few of these a year and so they tend to be ignored as the members have joined to work on their own, or club projects. That's not to say some won't help, I know people who have done just that, but it helps to get to know people.

 

14 minutes ago, Holby Railway said:

Wiring is not as complicated as you may think being DC its just 2 wires, obviously point motors need to wired,

 

Looking at the plans, your stations will require multiple feeds and some isolation gaps. Not rocket science, but more than 2 wires. There are a lot of point motors though, so a lot of wire!

 

Good luck with this.