Building a Judith Edge loco kit

[TravisM]

I’m thinking of buying a OO/4mm Judith Edge 50t Hunslet kit for my Sellafield layout, and I was wondering if anyone has any experience of building this kit?

 

As I’ve never built a brass etch kit in my life, I’m finding the thought of building it a little intimidating, to say the least.  Any tips or advice would be very welcome.

[doilum]

Start with a wagon.

[Phil Parker]

18 minutes ago, doilum said:

Start with a wagon.

 

Or a building. Severn Models have several that would make good starters. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Start at the very beginning, get some scrap etch or some brass of some variety and get the feel of how to "stick" things together with an iron.

 

Mike.

[Bucoops]

Whilst I agree with the above, I've only heard good things about Edge kits for buildability so a good introduction to locomotives when you are ready.

[Mol_PMB]

Agree with all the above. 

Also, make sure you have the right tools and supplies. For soldering itself, you'll need to choose your solder, soldering iron, flux, cleaning tools etc. You may also need some means of folding and curving the etched sheet, pressing out rivets, cutting items from the fret, cleaning up edges etc. In all cases, there's a range of approaches, qualities and prices and whilst you don't need all the premium equipment there are some things that can make the job a lot easier or achieve a better finished product. 

[Battledown]

I agree with all of the above but would also recommend Etched Locomotive Construction, an excellent book by the late Iain Rice that is long out of print but available from various online second hand and railway booksellers. It is very readable and covers all the basics really well, even though it was written in the 1980s and kit technology has moved on a lot since then.

[Barclay]

9 hours ago, TravisM said:

I’m thinking of buying a OO/4mm Judith Edge 50t Hunslet kit for my Sellafield layout, and I was wondering if anyone has any experience of building this kit?

 

As I’ve never built a brass etch kit in my life, I’m finding the thought of building it a little intimidating, to say the least.  Any tips or advice would be very welcome.

I strongly recommend Iain Rice's books on etched loco construction and etched chassis construction. The motor and gearbox bit is understandably rather out of date but otherwise they are an excellent grounding in the subject.

[fulton]

Lots of good advice above, some skill is required to have a reliable, smooth running locomotive, you will obtain those skills by reading up and practice, take easy steps, I would say I am an experianced modeller, but I still find loco kits etched or white metal hard work, but rewarding in the end, good luck.

Edited March 20 by fulton
Correction

[decauville1126]

Buy a cheap gash etched loco/wagon/whatever kit from ebay and practice on that. You'll learn very quickly and at very little cost. Also cheap etched kits/bits can be found at local model railway exhibitions and swapmeets. Don't rush!

[Steamport Southport]

I would start here....

 

 

 

 

Jason

[doilum]

3 hours ago, Bucoops said:

Whilst I agree with the above, I've only heard good things about Edge kits for buildability so a good introduction to locomotives when you are ready.

Perhaps I should have said this first time. If the 4mm kits go together like the 7mm versions you will have no complaints. That said, everything in 7mm is that bit larger and easier to assemble. The Hunslet 15&16” locomotives were most straightforward to build.

[nberrington]

The Judith edge kits are a treat to build. They are also not overly expensive. I would suggest dropping Mike an email and ask him  for a recommendation as a starter. He is super helpful and can guide you through any glitches you encounter.

 

I’ve built a few and they are logical and make delightful models. Choose a simple one!

[nberrington]

Here’s a fun one - the Ruston 88DS - just the gearbox is a fiddle. Just started it recently - wickedly clever design.

 

 

[Phil Parker]

11 hours ago, decauville1126 said:

Buy a cheap gash etched loco/wagon/whatever kit from ebay and practice on that. You'll learn very quickly and at very little cost. Also cheap etched kits/bits can be found at local model railway exhibitions and swapmeets. Don't rush!

 

Hmmm. Trying to assemble and old, badly designed kit will put you right off. That's why I suggest something from Severn Models, it won't be covered in old solder. 

[Dave John]

The above is all good advice. 

 

My biggest error early on was not realising just how clean you need to get the brass to make a really good soldered joint. 40 years later I do. 

 

Out of the box etches look clean but they have a surface of etch resist that needs to come off. Get some fine emery, some pcb cleaner blocks, some fibreglass brushes and some brass and steel minidrill wheels. Keep cleaning as you go .  Wash the flux residue off , clean it all again. 

[Steamport Southport]

Also some good advice of Jim McGeown's website.

 

http://www.jimmcgeown.com/Questions.html

 

Pity he doesn't do the 4mm kits anymore as some of the wagons were good beginners kits.

 

 

Jason

[TravisM]

Thanks for all the input guys, all very useful and I’ve been watching Tony Wright’s YouTube video’s as well.  Obviously, the key thing I’ve learnt is preparation, which is far more critical than on say a plastic or white metal kit.  Also, take your time and don’t rush.

[TravisM]

13 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

I would start here....

 

 

 

 

Jason

I’ve been watching this series and it’s very informative.

[ColinK]

8 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Also some good advice of Jim McGeown's website.

 

http://www.jimmcgeown.com/Questions.html

 

Pity he doesn't do the 4mm kits anymore as some of the wagons were good beginners kits.

 

 

Jason

Agree, for my first etched brass attempt I built one of his wagon kits, it went together well and the extra instruction book he sent me was a great help.  Almost worth building one as a learning experience.

 

While I’ve soldered electrical joints for a very long time, soldering brass kits is different. I went to one of the Merseyside 009 meetings (open to all) where the chap from Worsley Works showed me how to solder brass kits successfully.

 

[Daddyman]

9 hours ago, Dave John said:

The above is all good advice. 

 

My biggest error early on was not realising just how clean you need to get the brass to make a really good soldered joint. 40 years later I do. 

 

Out of the box etches look clean but they have a surface of etch resist that needs to come off. Get some fine emery, some pcb cleaner blocks, some fibreglass brushes and some brass and steel minidrill wheels.  

Sorry to contradict you, but I don't bother with this - never have in nearly 20 years of building etched kits - and I think Mike Edge himself says the same: there's no need to clean etches as the flux that you apply when soldering will do it for you. Far more important is a clean bit on the soldering iron - the OP would do well to buy a suede brush for this purpose. 

 

Brass is always harder to solder than N/S, but most newer JE kits are, I believe, N/S. I was surprised a few years ago just how much harder brass is to solder when I started a JE 06 (which was and possibly still is brass) after years of working mostly in N/S. The answer is a 50W temperature adjust iron, always turned up to at least double the nominal temperature of the solder you're using (good advice I picked up at Missenden; a common error with newcomers is not getting the solder flowing, due to not getting it hot enough). (I use a 2.3mm bit for everything, which seems to be the consensus among fellow modellers in the Scalefour Society Virtual Group, and London Road Models flux, which is cheap, doesn't rot your tools or the bit of the iron, and is easy to clean off; avoid Carr's Yellow!). 

 

As for cleaning as you go along, yes, good advice, but I know myself and it's not going to happen - and for all those ten minutes you spend at the end of each session cleaning up, you might as well add them all up and clean every two weeks or when you absolutely have to. 

 

Finally, you're going to struggle with motivation, which is why I wouldn't recommend a prolonged or regular cleaning process - you're using up your energy beans. There was a chap on here a few years ago who spent two weeks (sic) detailing how he meticulously cleaned all the etches for his kit. After two weeks he lost interest, and the loco never got built. For the same reason (motivation) I wouldn't recommend a wagon or a building: build what you want to build in order to maintain motivation. There's nothing in a wagon that's inherently easier - you're only ever soldering two parts together (OK, sometimes three), whether they come from a wagon kit or a loco, so you might as well start the loco. True, there are more likely to be parts to bend on a loco, but you can practise on a piece of scrap, or get someone to help you with it. 

 

Edited March 21 by Daddyman

[Marshall5]

Sorry but I can't agree with much of the above.  I  always clean the area of the etch where I am going to solder with a fibreglass brush or wet & dry and pre-tin before making the joint.  There seems to be a perception that soldering is some sort of 'black art' requiring all sorts  of fancy gear.  I have been building 7mm scale kits for 40+ yrs. and my 'go to' iron is a simple 40W with a 1/4" chisel bit. IMO people make too much of a song and dance over "temperature control" -  to me the amount of heat available is more important and the bit holds that reserve of heat which it transfers to the metal and allows the solder to flow freely. I have always used a corrosive flux and make a point of thoroughly cleaning up after every soldering session.  IMO the small amount of time it takes makes the next session much easier.

Ray.

[doilum]

Perhaps the only time I would disagree with Mr Edge but in the land of solder cleanliness IS godliness. Nickel silver isn’t quite so fussy but having prepped brass properly half an our previously it gets a quick kiss from the fibreglass pencil immediately before soldering.

Not sure if you are aware but most of the assembly is done with 145 degree solder. Save the electricians solder for wiring or attaching a small item that might be disturbed by future soldering.

[Bucoops]

I only clean the material if it's really manky. Otherwise I just let the water based flux do its job. Most of the kits I have are well over 20 years old.

[doilum]

I forgot to add that it is much easier to clean up tarnished parts whilst they are still flat / attached to the fret. A bonus also being that after a quick wash the finished model is ready for a coat of etch primer. Paint. Now THAT is another can of worms.........

We all have our own favoured approach. The key is to be open to advice and new ideas but default to what experience tells you works best for you and the tools available.