EFE Rail GW Bloater fish van

[hmrspaul]

Some of these had longer lives after conversion or transfer to the engineers. DW150120 remained in reasonably original condition https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrvans/ec6e08ff apparently cond during 1973 https://www.departmentals.com/departmental/150120

 

Others had longer lives but were heavily modified for use by Pooley, Easiest found on my site in https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/pooley

 

The Departmentals.com will give information on their subsequent lives, condemnation etc. The underframe and brake rigging should be a good start for one of these conversions. Unfortunately, I don't know of any drawing of these. 

 

Paul

[Garethp8873]

Whilst I am impressed and looking forward to seeing these eventually appearing in my rolling stock, I do have to say that the font used for running numbers, "FOR FISH TRAFFIC" and "BLOATER/BLOATER A" on the GWR examples just doesn't look right when compared to photographs of them in their GWR days.

[57xx]

6 hours ago, Garethp8873 said:

Whilst I am impressed and looking forward to seeing these eventually appearing in my rolling stock, I do have to say that the font used for running numbers, "FOR FISH TRAFFIC" and "BLOATER/BLOATER A" on the GWR examples just doesn't look right when compared to photographs of them in their GWR days.

 

Something looks odd about the G on the GW versions too.

 

For anyone who is strict with their timescales, the XP on the shirt button livery is (if I've interpreted information in Atkins et all correctly) only valid for after 1938 when the XP branding was introduced. If you model anywhere between 1934-38 you'll need to get the fibreglass pencil out.

[37079]

8 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

Unfortunately, I don't know of any drawing of these. 

There is a composite drawing covering all 4 diagrams in as built condition in Historic Carriage Drawings vol 3 (Tatlow).

 

Mike

[hmrspaul]

2 hours ago, 37079 said:

There is a composite drawing covering all 4 diagrams in as built condition in Historic Carriage Drawings vol 3 (Tatlow).

 

Mike

I wasn't talking about the Bloater I was referring to the Pooley conversions. As mentioned very early on in this topic these ceased being used as Fish vans early in BR days 60 - 70 years ago. The engineers conversions extend the time use of the underframes right up to today (Heritage railway use). 

 

Paul

Edited May 2 by hmrspaul

[stevetreble]

While delighted to see Bachmann release these models they all appear to have the same buffers which don't appear to be for correct any of them which seems a shame considering they have gone to the trouble of fitting them with sprung buffers.  On the https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh3062.htm link it says:

 

The vans all had .... sprung rod (diagram S8) or self-contained (diagram S9-11) buffers.

 

GWR Goods Wagons by Tourret et al says on pg 345 "The first to be built were 75 BLOATER Diagram S8 vans on carriage Lot 1258 built between Feb 1916 and May 1919 and numbered 2139-2213." Then on pg 346 they go on to say: "The next to be built were 25 BLOATER A Diagram S9 vans ..... numbered 2114-38.   These differed from S8 in being dual braked,  and having self contained buffers."

 

On that basis Bachmann's model of 2123 is a S9 and should have self contained buffers.  Number 2168 is a S8 and while difficult to make out what type of buffer Bachmann has put on these models it appears to be a ribbed buffer rather than the correct type as seen in the photo of 2207 at https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh3062.htm 

 

 

[Fredo]

Hi, did some of these vans still work on fish trains in the early 60’s? Also do you think EFE may do a tool van conversion? Thanks Fred

[hmrspaul]

1 hour ago, Fredo said:

Hi, did some of these vans still work on fish trains in the early 60’s? Also do you think EFE may do a tool van conversion? Thanks Fred

If you look at your copy of Longworth's book you will see the condemnation dates. 

 

Paul

[The Stationmaster]

On 01/05/2024 at 12:46, Cwmtwrch said:

The Y11 Fruit D had the same wheelbase but different brake gear, spring suspension and steps.

 

Some were converted to parcels vans circa 1948, but with the bodies substantially rebuilt; any survivors would not have been in fish traffic in the 1960s. Even the modern InSixFish had been transferred away from the WR, and photographs suggest what limited fish traffic there still was on the WR was in BR 4-wheel lwb insulated vans.

 

 

Insixfish vans were still in use on the WR in 1963 according to a photo taken by George Heiron.   The loco hauling the train in that photo didn't enter traffic until November 1962 so there's no substantial reason to be doubtful over the date stated in the photo caption.    Several sources suggest that the vehicles were transferred away from the WR c.1962-64 and seemingly mainly in 1963.   Some remaining Fish Traffic on the WR was carried in insulated containers but fish had disappeared as tail traffic by c.1966/67.

[Mr chapman]

I'll be grabbing at least one. Pricing in this range is to be keenly encouraged! 

[NXEA!]

Not a Western modeller but these look great. After they stopped being used for fish traffic (around late 50’s/early 60’s by the looks of comments on here, correct?), other than departmental, what sort of work were they cascaded on to? And how far did they travel, are there any photos of them miles away from the Western region? Thanks in advance. 

[Michael Hodgson]

7 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

 Several sources suggest that the vehicles were transferred away from the WR c.1962-64 and seemingly mainly in 1963.   Some remaining Fish Traffic on the WR was carried in insulated containers but fish had disappeared as tail traffic by c.1966/67.

Fish in vanload quantity may have disappeared by then, but fish by rail still existed. 

 

In the early 1970s I bought a 7-day all Wales railrover making as much use of it as possible.  On its last day of validity I travelled from Pembroke (or Fishguard?) on the last train of the day.  This was an overnight train to Paddington via Gloucester calling at Chepstow a few minutes before midnight.  The Guard had inspected tickets just after Cardiff, and presumably checked the few had boarded at Newport.  I was the only passenger to alight at Chepstow where nobody was waiting to board.  So he was very surprised to see me as he hadn't seen a ticket "to Chesptow" and he told me that the train didn't normally stop (although it was advertised as a normal stop in the public titmetable) but had done so only because he had to collect a crate of fresh salmon for Billingsgate that had been caught in the Wye.  It had been left unattended on the platform and was apparently a regular if intermittent traffic flow.

[Dunsignalling]

5 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Fish in vanload quantity may have disappeared by then, but fish by rail still existed. 

 

In the early 1970s I bought a 7-day all Wales railrover making as much use of it as possible.  On its last day of validity I travelled from Pembroke (or Fishguard?) on the last train of the day.  This was an overnight train to Paddington via Gloucester calling at Chepstow a few minutes before midnight.  The Guard had inspected tickets just after Cardiff, and presumably checked the few had boarded at Newport.  I was the only passenger to alight at Chepstow where nobody was waiting to board.  So he was very surprised to see me as he hadn't seen a ticket "to Chesptow" and he told me that the train didn't normally stop (although it was advertised as a normal stop in the public titmetable) but had done so only because he had to collect a crate of fresh salmon for Billingsgate that had been caught in the Wye.  It had been left unattended on the platform and was apparently a regular if intermittent traffic flow.

 

IIRC, there was, for a while, some revived fish traffic up from the West Country, carried in the vans of HSTs. 

[The Stationmaster]

7 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

IIRC, there was, for a while, some revived fish traffic up from the West Country, carried in the vans of HSTs. 

The most 'noticeable' reintroduction of fish traffic on the WR was the stuff originating from Falmouth loaded in air-braked opens.  The fish was intended for industrial processing, not human consumption and teh traffic didn't last very long - which was probably just as well as teh train it ran as part of recessed at Bristol TM and the smell of fish reputedly hung around the station for days.

 

And yes, I know that fish as parcels traffic did continue for some years - off & on - but as i noted - fish conveyed as tail traffic had vanished on the WR by 1966/7.   Part of the reason for that was that by then almost all of the long distant passenger services had been accelerated accelerated following dieselisation and were classed as 'Two Spade' trains which in turn restricted what vehicles could bu e used for tail traffic even if they were within the train's load limits.

[Miss Prism]

Boxes (for I assume fish) on the goods platform at St Ives, 1950s. I wouldn't be surprised if a Fruit D or two weren't part of the traffic.

 

 

[Pteremy]

8 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

Boxes (for I assume fish) on the goods platform at St Ives, 1950s. I wouldn't be surprised if a Fruit D or two weren't part of the traffic.

 

 

 

Copied from my post in the KR Models Mica B thread

 

I have managed to track down a couple of references from old RMweb threads.

 

The first is a Mica B at St Erth in 1960. This is on page 113 of Welch's 'Western steam in Devon and Cornwall'. It isn't a close up shot but it is clear enough to see that it still has end roof vents, 2 handrails on the ends, the end steps (including the latterly added central one at the top) and is in a relatively clean white livery. In a different thread there is a suggestion that the St Ives Branch generated traffic for other types of refrigerated van, possibly fish.

 

Update: there is an article in GW Journal 97 which says that during the 1950s two traders in St Ives sent fish away by rail. The article mentions a Bloater attached to the rear of a midday passenger train. But perhaps insulated vans were also used at other times, particularly as the Bloaters were withdrawn over the course of the decade.

[Wickham Green too]

21 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Insixfish vans were still in use on the WR in 1963 ... sources suggest that the vehicles were transferred away from the WR c.1962-64 ...

At least one was among the many, many vehicles sold off from Inverurie Works and ended up grounded in a local farmyard - so, presumably  it ( & others ? ) spent time operating in Scotland before withdrawal.

[Cwmtwrch]

It's not particularly conclusive, but a rather random selection of photographs of identifiable fish vans in S Wales in the late 1950s and early 1960s show numerous ex-LNER vans, both original uninsulated and insulated conversions, several BR 1/800, one BR 1/801 and one Insixfish [dated Sept 1962], but no Bloaters.

[Liam]

Pre-ordered my E87061 from Kernow the other evening.

 

I’m optimistic that it can be run on a layout centred around a wagon works just outside Swindon, but if that fails then I don’t regret my order as it’s a lovely model at an astonishingly low price.

[57xx]

Based on discussions around the Fruit D  and on brown stock livery elsewhere, pretty sure the ends should be black too.

[gwrrob]

39 minutes ago, 57xx said:

Based on discussions around the Fruit D  and on brown stock livery elsewhere, pretty sure the ends should be black too.

The Hornby horse box thread too but it’s not conclusive.

[57xx]

20 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

The Hornby horse box thread too but it’s not conclusive.

 

What bit isn't conclusive, given the amount of pictorial evidence?

[Fredo]

Hi, are the new GWR fish vans coming this week, and if not do we know when? Thanks Fred

[Paul.Uni]

According to the Bachmann newsletter these are due to arrive next week.

[Jon Harbour]

They really have turned up quickly! Bit of a surprise!