Are we too defensive about our hobby?

[great northern]

Yesterday I was sitting in the bar at my golf club. Nothing unusual about that.I'm very good at it. But then I was given a copy of BRM with my article in by one of our barmaids! Immediately one of the younger members of our group began talking loudly and disparagingly about "Toy trains". Someone else then asked to look at the mag,and eventually it got passed round the table. Several people spent quite a time looking through it- not just at my article. Two asked if they could borrow it to read at leisure. There were many positive comments, and intelligent questions. Then the people at the next table asked if they could have a look. Same result. Genuine interest and positive reaction. If anyone had any negative thoughts they kept them to themselves. General reaction was "I had no idea that model railways were so real looking". And the guy who was so negative? Well he looked at it too, and went very quiet. Then he said " I'm stunned- I had no idea- this isn't a train set, it's real". Later, he asked to have another look, and when he left he was still shaking his head and saying he couldn't believe what he had seen. And he asked if he could come and see the new layout when it is finished. First, all credit to him for overcoming his prejudices. Second, if he can do it, would not others behave in the same way? Not all of course, some are beyond reach.

 

So my question is, should we be more positive? We had a long thread recently about coming out or being "outed" as a railway modeller, and clearly some people are concerned about the public in general finding out about their interst in "toy trains". Ignorance will always generate prejudice. My experience yesterday suggests to me that if ignorance can be dissipated we need have no fear. The media it seems, or most of them at least, are content to trot out all the old hackneyed images of anyone who has any interest in trains at all, and sadly it seems very difficult to say the least to get them, supremely idle as most seem to be , to even think of finding out what it's really all about. But should we be at least trying to reach people we know who might at least be prepared to be open minded? I reckon we should.

[coachmann]

If someone saw me reading BRM and said 'toy trains', I'd have no defence...

 

 

Seriously though, I was asked what I did for a living last week by my surgeons assistant. He wasn't from this country and could not be expected to know about Britains railway history and the old carriage liveries, but he grasped what I was saying straight away and added "I haven't come across that one before.....respect!"

 

Maybe he is a railway enthusiast. There are a lot of them about.

[The Stationmaster]

Whenever I had any questionnaire at work about this, that, and everything and it included a section on hobbies (and quite a few of those sort of things did) I always included 'model railways'/'railway modelling'. And wondered who'd be likely to read it or take any notice of it?

[Oldddudders]

Whenever I had any questionnaire at work about this, that, and everything and it included a section on hobbies (and quite a few of those sort of things did) I always included 'model railways'/'railway modelling'. And wondered who'd be likely to read it or take any notice of it?

The standard BR internal application form for a job (many were advertised nationally every week) had a box for stating your leisure interests, which was a bit silly when the interviewer/appointing officer already knew you, and was not about to be swayed by anything you put in there! On one occasion I put "Long Distance Mellodion Playing" and was asked at the interview to demonstrate what this consisted of! I got the job anyway.

[pointstaken]

Unfortunately, the media today deal only in stereotypes, men are supposed only to like football, drinking and watching television. Sample - a recent comment from a female on television - "all men like football !" represents the brainless and ignorant rabble of the sort whose only excitement and horizons in life are focussed on the trivial doings of so-called celebrities. Such types with their limited horizons believe that those who do not conform to this stereotype are decidedly odd, and should be bracketed together with *****iles and others of that ilk. So what if we do like so called "toy trains", it is nothing to do with anyone else, it harms no one, and causes no inconvenience or distress to anyone. I personally couldn't care less about the views of other people, if you don't like my interest that's your problem, not mine !

 

Dennis

[PhilH]

I think a lot depends on the type of person you are - there are those who don't give a fig what people they don't care about think of them. These are the most likely to let others know what their hobbies are and not worry what they think.

 

Then there are the unfortunate souls who worry about what the world thinks of them.....

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

I think a lot depends on the type of person you are - there are those who don't give a fig what people they don't care about think of them. These are the most likely to let others know what their hobbies are and not worry what they think.

 

Then there are the unfortunate souls who worry about what the world thinks of them.....

 

I think I know which category you and I belong to.

 

I am not entirely sure about being defensive but, if asked, I do say what I do for a hobby. I don't think the media see model railways as mainstream, it doesn't attract viewers or readers but then very few hobbies do. I don't consider watching football or any other sport as a hobby anyway.

 

The nearest interface we have with the media continues to be the magazines and, if you look carefully, modelling of railways is the largest part of modelling and the modelling section is large enough to attract uncommitted browsers.

[Andy C]

If someone saw me reading BRM and said 'toy trains', I'd have no defence...

 

 

 

Many a true word spoken in jest!

[Guest Max Stafford]

I've noticed a sea change in attitudes in the last 8-10 years and people are generally more receptive these days. Within that time though, I also sense that railways have re-entered public conciousness in a significant way. This is reflected a little in popular culture if you think about things like the 'train heist' in the final episode of 'Life on Mars', sneaky shots of 66-hauled freights in 'Dr Who' and the St Pancras shoot-out in 'Spooks'.

At work, my colleagues and I have a robust culture of p155 taking and inevitably, I get a few 'Timmy Potter' type insults lobbed my way. After appropriate retaliation in kind ( ) the lads are usually quite impressed when I show them a picture or two of my latest creation.

I tend to get asked the technical railway questions too if they're involved in an enquiry.

As my oppo once remarked; "sometimes, you can actually be useful for something ..."

 

Dave.

[HerbertHopkins]

If someone saw me reading BRM and said 'toy trains', I'd have no defence...

 

 

In fairness, I don't think BRM is the worst offender here. There is one publication I always refer to as 'Train Set Monthly and Narrow Gauge News'. I'll leave you to decide which one it is!

[James Hilton]

Has no one asked what the barmaid was doing with a copy of BRM in the first place?!

 

It's funny - I think we're all guilty of expecting 'normal' people to treat us with ridicule at worst (gentle teasing at best) rather than show a genuine interest.

I've a few good friends who I go mountainbiking with - I used to keep the layout in the garage under dust covers to protect from my cats and general clutter but one time I'd forgotten and it was funny how most of my friends spoke fondly about having a trainset with their Dad's when they were younger - now that could be why we're all Engineers, but I certainly did not receive any jibes or teasing.

 

 

 

 

[Guest Max Stafford]

"It's funny - I think we're all guilty of expecting 'normal' people to treat us with ridicule at worst (gentle teasing at best) rather than show a genuine interest."

 

I wouldn't worry about it, they're muggles. They just don't understand...!

 

Dave.

[Jol Wilkinson]

In a conversation with some fellow railway modellers at the weekend, discussing this very topic, one of them made the comment that model aircraft, model boat or R/C model car enthusiasts don't seem to have the same "negative" image. They are perceived as having a skill and ability worthy of recognition.

 

Perhaps it is the way that a small minority of railway modellers present themselves that creates a stereotype that the media and public like to hang on to - you have only to look at the some of the attendees at the larger shows (where the interface with the general public is at it's greatest) - to see where this comes from. Couple this with the toy like and obvious "it came out of a box" appearance of some layouts and you have an image which isn't worthy of any real respect.

 

I don't think we should be defensive. When people say to me at a show "you must have a lot of patience to do that" I tell them - politely - that patience is what fishermen need; model makers need skill, enthusiasm, dedication, knowledge, etc. If we were a bit more openly confident of what we do, then we might get a bit more respect for it.

[coachmann]

Everyone and his cousin had a trainset. And for most boys and girls that's where it ended, which is why they talk fondly of having such toys as children. Therefore the problem might just lie with us! We're too defensive.

 

People say to me "Are you still doing the trains?". I don't cringe......It's just a job like theirs.

[bike2steam]

Amusing topic, it's only the unintelligent, ignorant few that poke fun at model railways, as it's normal for some to poke fun at what they don't understand, or don't have the ability to do. My recourse is to go eyeball to eyeball, and ask,'do you have a problem with it' - the reply is always the same - 'noooo'.

Oh, and I'm one of those types that likes football, motorcycles, and bodybuilding .

[James]

My recourse is to go eyeball to eyeball, and ask,'do you have a problem with it' - the reply is always the same - 'noooo'.

 

I like that!

[Shamouti Ben Yafo]

I can't agree that modellers of other subjects are seen in a less unfavourable light; I used to model military and aviation subjects, and received endless ridicule (and spiteful, at that) from school fiends (sic) (sic? Sick!) and family (extended and nuclear) alike. So I rarely discuss this pastime outside of my closest aquaintances - my Father-in-Law is a 7mm steam man.

I read a letter in an American (and it really had to be!) magazine once by someone who maintained that modelling was for him a way of life; his hobby was the study of ancient religions. Nearly the perfect opposite of my life, except for the ancient bit; given the choice between an evening's modelling or wrestling with a juicy text (as long as it's in a language I can read) I would choose the latter.

 

As for other interests; I really dislike team sports of all flavours (yep, classic loner, expecting Special Branch/NCS/FBI etc to kick my door in and wave pistols in my face any day now)though I do see the point of individual sports like athletics - and particularly those which can encompass personal development, sport and pastime all at once such as Martial arts. I eat oriental food whenever possible (usually when the wife and daughter are out)and sometimes drink real ale. Waiting for nightfall then nipping out into the garden with my sword for a nice swish about is as close to sport as I get these days - that and cycling about.

[Allegheny1600]

In a conversation with some fellow railway modellers at the weekend, discussing this very topic, one of them made the comment that model aircraft, model boat or R/C model car enthusiasts don't seem to have the same "negative" image. They are perceived as having a skill and ability worthy of recognition.

 

I don't think we should be defensive. When people say to me at a show "you must have a lot of patience to do that" I tell them - politely - that patience is what fishermen need; model makers need skill, enthusiasm, dedication, knowledge, etc. If we were a bit more openly confident of what we do, then we might get a bit more respect for it.

 

 

Well said, Sir!

For my part, i've always been fairly open about my hobby/s (railways real & model, foreign & domestic, cycling, chess & travel!) and rarely received any abuse for it amongst work collegues, only geniune interest - as long as i don't labour the point too much!

I've always explained the railway thing away by saying how it's great not to have to battle traffic or airport queues (prototype) or that i find so little of interest on TV these days, i always wanted to do something creative (model), then i leave it at that. If people then express further interest, i then go on to explain that for example, my modelling has made (caused?/allowed?/) me to learn all about history, geography, economics, mechanics, electricals, woodwork, painting and so forth. This usually generates a lot more interest!

I think that we as a group of enthusiasts, need to restrain ourselves when in 'normal' (non-railway) company - if we start spouting off or frothing in front of non-railway people, we immediately conform to that media stereotype, they switch off immediately having already categorised us a being a crank! Thanks 'Coronation Street' and Roy Cropper!

I do this myself when in the company of one or two computer 'geeks' that i know - while talking about 'normal' conversations for us, cars, films etc great! everything is fine.

As soon as one or the other of these guys starts on about computers, i glaze over and switch off - i cannot understand what they are going on about, it's a different language to me and i'm not interested and i don't want to be!

This is how non-railway people are with us, i believe.

The best change of attitude i ever had was from a long time cycling buddy who had always been completely scathing of my models (he was into football, sun reading, drinking and obviously, cycling!) for years - until one day when he was at mine with a cycling problem which i fixed by using some of my modelling tools!! He was then fascinated when i eplained that i actually did build and paint (etc) some of my models - the occassional jibes then stopped!

As others have already mentioned, it is slowly becoming slightly more acceptable these days - possibly thanks to the like of certain celebrities from the music world openly admitting they are into railways!

IMHO, we should try to be more like Rod Stewart or Pete Waterman rather than Roy Cropper!!!!

Cheers,

John E.

[Guest Max Stafford]

I'm all for that John, as long as I don't have to adopt Rod's taste in swimwear...!

 

Dave.

[Captain Kernow]

There have been various portrayals of model railway enthusiasts in the media over the years. One I particularly remember was the BBC Play for Today 'Schmoedipus' from 1974 - link here: http://www.yorksj.ac.uk/potter/schmoed.htm

 

Anyone remember that one?

[The Stationmaster]

There have been various portrayals of model railway enthusiasts in the media over the years. One I particularly remember was the BBC Play for Today 'Schmoedipus' from 1974 - link here: http://www.yorksj.ac.uk/potter/schmoed.htm

 

Anyone remember that one?

 

I think I was doing out-of-hours signalbox visits that night

[steve1]

Well, this weekend, Hull MRS members are putting themselves directly in the firing line, so to speak, with a public display at Hull (Paragon) station. Iy will be interesting to see what sort of reaction we get there.

 

In a similar vein, recently I was part of a group of modellers who were exhibiting at a local fete. We had quite a bit of polite interest and nobody was rude or laughed at us. Events like these can help spread the message that not only are we not strange but also we may actually get a newcomer interested.

 

steve

[sn]

There have been various portrayals of model railway enthusiasts in the media over the years. One I particularly remember was the BBC Play for Today 'Schmoedipus' from 1974 - link here: http://www.yorksj.ac.uk/potter/schmoed.htm

 

Anyone remember that one?

 

I remember that! The layout was a freight only layout (LMS I think!) laid with Formoway track. At work he pretended to be a loco and turn himself on a big round circular inlay on the floor!

 

What a thing to remember?!!

[Barry Ten]

There have been various portrayals of model railway enthusiasts in the media over the years.

 

One of the more positive ones would be Ken from Early Doors - he's easily the hero of the series, kind to his regulars

and with a brilliant line in dry wit. We never see his train set as far as I remember but it's mentioned in one of the early

episodes ("it's a proper Hornby"!) and there are railway paintings on the walls of his pub/house.

 

Remember though: crime can't crack itself.

[bradfordbuffer]

Hi all, I am a train driver and i am not secretive about my hobby at work I AM PROUD TO BE OUT! (just don’t get caught being a bus spotter though) at the depot i work at least 10 out of the 40 drivers have a ‘active’ interest in models or prototype... public think of models as toys....and adults playing with toys gets a cheap laugh... no worse than holding a stick over water drowning a worm at least when they take the P**s out of my hobby they leave my ginger hair alone... railway modeller and ginger.... i am dammed!!!!!!!