Network Rail test trains

[nightstar.train]

Why are all the NR test trains painted in two different shades of yellow? I assume it must be a rule that the front of a train is a specific shade of yellow, but why then isn't the entire test train painted that colour? Or conversely why can't the front be in the shade the rest of the body is? It's very very hard to tell the difference between the two shades, you have top really look for it, so why bother? And if it is a rule about the shade used on the front why can't NR exempt themselves from it? After all they own the railways, and with a whole train painted yellow, and fitted with the requisite lights it's hardly inconspicuous.

[Glorious NSE]

I assume it must be a rule that the front of a train is a specific shade of yellow

 

Yes

 

but why then isn't the entire test train painted that colour?

 

You would have thought there would be some logic to that, certainly - i've no idea why they didn't though!

 

Or conversely why can't the front be in the shade the rest of the body is?

 

Because that's not the right colour.

 

And if it is a rule about the shade used on the front why can't NR exempt themselves from it? After all they own the railways

 

They own the track, but they don't make the rules and aren't allowed to just make it up as they go along. I believe the yellow is dictated in something called "Group Standards" which is outside NR's remit?

[Ragtag]

a whole train painted yellow, and fitted with the requisite lights it's hardly inconspicuous

 

I believe the argument has also been made elsewhere on these boards that a train with yellow panel has better visibility than an all-yellow end/train.

 

As for why the entire train isn't warning yellow, I've often wondered that myself.

[Guest stuartp]

Good question.

 

The shade and area of the yellow on the front is indeed mandated by a Railway Group Standard (GM/RT2483 if you want to look it up at RGS Online), Network Rail are bound by Group Standards as for any other TOC. It's not their standard, it's set by the Rail Safety and Standards Board, and even if you take the view that RSSB and Network Rail are merely bits of the former Railtrack with new notepaper, they'd look a bit silly exempting themselves from their own standard. They can get a derogation from a standard if there's a good reason but 'it clashes' isn't a good reason.

 

As for why the rest of the train can't be the same colour, I've no idea. I'd guess either a designer did it because they could, or because somebody thought the slightly richer RGS yellow looks cack on such a large area. They both look the same covered in brake dust and dead flies though.

[Edwin_m]

But unless the flies are unusually suicidal they only end up on the end...

[Glorious NSE]

Ah but some things do have a yellow panel on the yellow end, hence both getting flied-up

 

It is rather silly...

[Pugsley]

They can get a derogation from a standard if there's a good reason but 'it clashes' isn't a good reason.

It's funny how Freightliner managed to get a derogation for their original yellow and green livery, but NR either couldn't, or didn't.

[Guest stuartp]

It's funny how Freightliner managed to get a derogation for their original yellow and green livery, but NR either couldn't, or didn't.

 

 

Really ? I'd always assumed FL yellow was ordinary warning yellow just carried round the cab sides. You learn something every day. In that case I really don't have a clue why they've used two different shades then.

[The Fatadder]

It's funny how Freightliner managed to get a derogation for their original yellow and green livery, but NR either couldn't, or didn't.

 

I have a feeling that in the early days post privatisation it was easier to get exemptions from the regulations, these days with the ever increasing H&S etc its not surprising that they are following the rules to the letter

 

Even with Freightliner, it looks like the new livery on the 70s & 86 has the group standard yellow

[The Stationmaster]

Here is the relevant Group Standard 2004 edition thereof. Section C1 on page 7 is the bit that matters - it specifies what yellows are acceptable and the area (basically 1 square metre in total) which is to be painted yellow.

http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Railway_Group_Standards/Rolling%20Stock/Railway%20Group%20Standards/GMRT2483%20Iss%201.pdf

[John M Upton]

Having seen two NR Test Trains in the last week (including a clag-tastic and throaty sounding Class 31 the other night when the platform should have contained my 377/4 going to Littlehampton!! ) the change in shade between the warning panel and the body is obvious on the 31's and the DBSO's when viewed up close but from a distance, especially with fading, muck, weathering etc it is not noticeable at all. Certainly in model form you could get away with a coat all over of one shade of yellow especially if you are then going to weather the model.

 

By contrast however that newly out shopped 73/1 73138 is definitely warning panel yellow all over, there was no join or other demarcation line that I could see on it the other week:

 

 

Just noticed that it has not got any Network Rail markings on it either...

[Bristol_Rich]

I would suggest that the corporate branding was undertaken by a independent design company who had no knowledge of the intricate details of the cab paint scheme specs, or it was their interpretation of warning panel yellow only to find that they'd got their RAL charts mixed up

[PhilJ W]

Could it be that the two yellows were applied at different times and one has faded more, or paint from two different batches/manufacturers/chemical make up.

EDIT Another possible explanation is that the paint used on the ends is of a different specification, being perhaps more durable and therefore more expensive than that used on the sides.

[nightstar.train]

Having seen two NR Test Trains in the last week (including a clag-tastic and throaty sounding Class 31 the other night when the platform should have contained my 377/4 going to Littlehampton!! ) the change in shade between the warning panel and the body is obvious on the 31's and the DBSO's when viewed up close but from a distance, especially with fading, muck, weathering etc it is not noticeable at all. Certainly in model form you could get away with a coat all over of one shade of yellow especially if you are then going to weather the model.

 

By contrast however that newly out shopped 73/1 73138 is definitely warning panel yellow all over, there was no join or other demarcation line that I could see on it the other week:

 

 

Just noticed that it has not got any Network Rail markings on it either...

 

Actually, looking really hard at your photo, and at his one here http://chrisisnewandoldrailpics.fotopic.net/p66634188.html, it looks to me that the front lower half is warning yellow, and the rest of the train including the front upper half is NR yellow. (Or i could be hallucinating, i am full of pain killers the now ). I agree it is hardly noticeable though, but is quite apparent on the DBSOs (which is what i'm modelling).

 

I think i will be painting my train in the two different shades. Even if you can't notice if it was only one shade, I would know and it would bug me.

 

It was easier when it was Railtrack, the difference between lime green and warning yellow is pretty obvious. (And i like the old Railtrack livery, no matter what other people think ).

[96701]

These two class 31s are different yellows. The one towards the rear is paler.

[298]

You can definitely see the difference in this photo:

 

http://chrisisnewandoldrailpics.fotopic.net/p66634188.html

 

You'd have thought in this day and age they'd have found a paint that doesn't fade or weather as much as NR yellow or whatever West Coast Railways use for Maroon in Carnforth...

[newbryford]

 

 

By contrast however that newly out shopped 73/1 73138 is definitely warning panel yellow all over, there was no join or other demarcation line that I could see on it the other week:

 

 

 

 

Some of the recently repainted test coaches appear to be warning panel yellow, rather than the slightly "lemon" shade normally used by NR.

http://modernrailways.fotopic.net/p64223431.html

However, as stated elsewhere, yellow does seem to fade more than *most* other colours and there is a reasonable variation of shades due to weathering across the NR fleet.

 

 

Cheers,

Mick