Warley NEC 2010

[Chris Nevard]

Yes it was, albeit without glazing and in primer. The coupling mechanism was curious and rather neat with power connection going between both cars for pickup purposes I guess. Sorry, can't show any pics because my editor will shoot me

[RThompson]

Yes the kits will be added to the website slowly once they have been upgraded as theres only a few left each of the original kits.

 

The other new release timed for the show was my latest 4mm scale, 009 gauge loco body kit of Drewry "Chattenden".

 

Again over the next few weeks the website will be updated with ALOT to be added but it is also being changed slightly at the same time.

 

It was good to meet people there and put faces to names as well.

 

Regards Robert Thompson

RT Models

www.rtmodels.co.uk

 

 

Probably a bit obscure for most but RTmodels are re-introducing some steelworks kits, I came away with a slag ladle wagon and a Skinninggrove mill roll wagon, both in w/m and both were previously sold by another company. Far more interesting to me than anything that the big boys are releasing!

[steam-driven boy]

Hi,

I'm finally sorting/editing my happy-snappery from Sunday, I've tried to avoid too much duplication from previous posts so it's by no means extensive but I hope they are of some interest

Aberdare

Bath Queen Square

Copenhagen Fields

Liverpool Crown Street

Midland Sidings

Myrtle Avenue

Thurston

Westcliff

Ynysarwed Sidings

 

I'd bought a two day ticket in advance but with my very recent move I was too exhausted Saturday to make the trip so I only took in the layouts - I'm still surrounded by boxes to unpack as it is! I would have given the trade stands suitable attention if I had been able to make both days.

I made regular use of the improved (over previous visits) level of seating and always managed to find a seat easily throughout the day B)

 

Regards, Gerry.

[Jol Wilkinson]

We experienced this problem too, especially on Sunday when we were down to four staff! Our response was to have one guy posted at the back door to the stand, at least one behind the counter and another in front, watching the exit and the queue; if punters were queuing with no obvious product to buy, they were approached and, if necessary, taken from the queue to discuss their question!

 

If caught behind the counter when such visitors 'started off', I excused myself whilst coming off the stand to get him out of the stream, effectively swapping roles with my off-stand colleague! Seemed to work OK!

 

John,

 

we have two "staff" for an 8' counter, so for one to "move out" during busy periods - thats when the "enthusiasts" usually turn up - isn't usually practical. I usually say "excuse me, this customer looks like they want to buy something" when someone else appears, but if the talker is in full flow, they don't appear capable of realising there are other people in this world.

 

I find it's different when exhibiting the layout to being behind the trade stand. In the first case visitors seem to be happy to attract your attention to ask a question. At a trade stand, they sometimes seem to be more reluctant to do so and if you don't pick them out for attention will walk away. Perhaps a different perception of the relationship between the exhibitor and the trader?

 

A final thought. Do customers form groups to descend en masse on a trader all at the same time, and then leave them alone (and bored) for other periods?

 

Jol

[Kenton]

I find it's different when exhibiting the layout to being behind the trade stand. In the first case visitors seem to be happy to attract your attention to ask a question. At a trade stand, they sometimes seem to be more reluctant to do so and if you don't pick them out for attention will walk away. Perhaps a different perception of the relationship between the exhibitor and the trader?

An interesting perspective. From the other side, i get the impression of the reverse. Show an interest in an item on the trade stand usually the trader is very willing to enter into a discussion. Already the topic is well in focus, a particular kit, say and the ice has already broke. On top of that there is the prospect of a sale or future/alternative sale. There is also the feeling of being "known" to the trader. It is usually the same guy you spoke to last time and you get that feeling they they remember you above all those other customers. Questioning at a layout can be quite different unless you know the operator, they don't have that same focus and it must be very difficult to guess what the punter is focusing their attention on.

 

Oddly my criticism of huddles on layouts does not extend to those on trade stands - perhaps because they rightly have a business to run and are acutely aware of the customer with a packet and a bundle of notes in their hand. The layout huddle discussing the quality of beer, accommodation and how fast they can decamp has no visual prompt from the questioner who is just another punter staring intently at a part of the layout they take for granted.

[JohnDMJ]

John,

 

we have two "staff" for an 8' counter, so for one to "move out" during busy periods - thats when the "enthusiasts" usually turn up - isn't usually practical. I usually say "excuse me, this customer looks like they want to buy something" when someone else appears, but if the talker is in full flow, they don't appear capable of realising there are other people in this world.

 

I find it's different when exhibiting the layout to being behind the trade stand. In the first case visitors seem to be happy to attract your attention to ask a question. At a trade stand, they sometimes seem to be more reluctant to do so and if you don't pick them out for attention will walk away. Perhaps a different perception of the relationship between the exhibitor and the trader?

 

A final thought. Do customers form groups to descend en masse on a trader all at the same time, and then leave them alone (and bored) for other periods?

 

Jol

I appreciate your comments!

 

Layouts vs Trade are differing situations which have their own methods of attack; I've been on both sides! Yes, I'm sure that the punters do block en masse at each stand with their own tales of various sorts!

 

Which stand were you on? (Grid reference will suffice!) I was on F04! Given our stand layout, we needed a minimum of 5 to patrol it properly! We had 6 on Saturday and 4 on Sunday! Nonetheless, it was still practical to take the attention seekers to one side but to still patrol the stand effectively. (If any punter accuses me of appearing 'shifty' I'll probably charge them for anything that goes walkies! Eye contact - forget it! Aural contact maintained!) Whichever colleague had been outside took the bait automatically and went inside, without question or thought, to replace me! Non-verbal, almost telepathic communication at its best IMHO!

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

. It is usually the same guy you spoke to last time and you get that feeling they they remember you above all those other customers.

 

That is the way that every trader who has to deal with the public is. You have to have a natural manner that makes people feel at ease. You are, of course, on the stand to communicate with people but not every trader can find competent staff to man a stand and, at Warley, you will find most stands manned by the guv and trusted henchman.

 

Having done many other exhibitions in the past, I reallly can say that Warley and indeed most other model railway shows are soooo much nicer. You even understand the 'starters' or the DCC virgins' better as you have been there yourself and this is only a hobby after all.

 

I actually detest the box shifting. I leave that to the guv.

[trisonic]

John,

 

A final thought. Do customers form groups to descend en masse on a trader all at the same time, and then leave them alone (and bored) for other periods?

 

Jol

 

I think they go to see what everyone else is looking at - in case they miss something (I've been guilty of that....).

 

Best, Pete.

 

 

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

Which stand were you on? (Grid reference will suffice!) I was on F04! Given our stand layout, we needed a minimum of 5 to patrol it properly! We had 6 on Saturday and 4 on Sunday! Nonetheless, it was still practical to take the attention seekers to one side but to still patrol the stand effectively. (If any punter accuses me of appearing 'shifty' I'll probably charge them for anything that goes walkies! Eye contact - forget it! Aural contact maintained!) Whichever colleague had been outside took the bait automatically and went inside, without question or thought, to replace me! Non-verbal, almost telepathic communication at its best IMHO!

 

Hi John,

 

the trader I help doesn't do Warley anymore. We packed it up about seven years ago.

 

The stand rent and electrical hook up cost had become too high and we found that, depite a good turnover, it wasn't worth doing. Increasingly the regular customers that we saw at other shows said that they mostly had stopped going to Warley, citing that it was too crowded and they couldn't find their way around easily.

 

Other shows, including the national societies events, each provide very similar revenue to that at Warley at lower costs and a less crowded, more relaxed environment. The products we sell are 4mm etched kits and have have a narrower customer base than for a trader covering products for a variety of gauges and experience levels. I thinks that's why Warley was poor value for us, despite the volume of visitors, while shows like expoEM are much more worthwhile.

 

Jol

[Minster]

I think they go to see what everyone else is looking at - in case they miss something (I've been guilty of that....).

 

Best, Pete.

 

 

 

 

Hi,

 

I can remember very well a number of years ago at a show some of us doing a ' Rent a crowd' job, If a layout did not have anybody by It we would stand by it point at something and say loud enough for people to hear ' That's good' - worked every time!

 

John.

[Andy C]

Hi John,

 

the trader I help doesn't do Warley anymore. We packed it up about seven years ago.

 

The stand rent and electrical hook up cost had become too high and we found that, depite a good turnover, it wasn't worth doing. Increasingly the regular customers that we saw at other shows said that they mostly had stopped going to Warley, citing that it was too crowded and they couldn't find their way around easily.

 

Other shows, including the national societies events, each provide very similar revenue to that at Warley at lower costs and a less crowded, more relaxed environment. The products we sell are 4mm etched kits and have have a narrower customer base than for a trader covering products for a variety of gauges and experience levels. I thinks that's why Warley was poor value for us, despite the volume of visitors, while shows like expoEM are much more worthwhile.

 

Jol

 

Talking (as you do) to various traders at shows it would appear a few have upped sticks from the NEC because of this - but then again a lot have said its a shop window they cannot afford not to do, their take is that punters have the perception that if you aren't at Warley you have gone out of business!!

 

Having been told the cost of a 12 x 6 trading slot by a trader who does Manchester but declined to go to warley this year, my eyes watered somewhat

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

I can never quite see how a box shifter can actually justify going to Warley but then again, a lot of the visitors to Warley seemed to be inexperienced. The dealer I help would not go unless he had a manufacturing arm that offers semi unique products.

 

At least one of the shifters had an eight man staffed long stand with banners etc. You need to sell an awful lot of kit to justify the expense.

[RANGERS]

I've noted a number of traders who've deserted Warley in favour of the specialist society shows. TPM, London Rd Models and ABS to name a few. Overall I think the show is the poorer for it, it did reach a point in the late 90s where it was a showcase and a marketplace for all aspects of the hobby, a real one stop shop, but as rents and the nonsensical economics of the NEC took their toll, it has inevitably become sensible only for those with a high turnover/ margin to justify these costs.

 

I fear that this situation will continue and in 5 - 10 years time it will be very hard for specialist traders to justify standing at Warley.

 

A commercial three day show I'm involved in at the NEC costs on a space only basis (no stand build, electrics etc) over £70 a sq meter. Another show in another venue (co-incidentally also used for a model show during the year) costs less than a quarter of that sum. Incremental venue costs - exhibitor parking, power, etc widens that gap further and add in other aspects such as cheaper hotels outside the NEC catchment and the total bill for a similar show elsewhere amounts to around 15 - 20% of what the NEC show costs. Fair enough the non-NEC show probably spends less on marketing and we don't get as much trade from it but on a sales per pound spent basis, it's hugely better value.

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

I've noted a number of traders who've deserted Warley in favour of the specialist society shows. TPM, London Rd Models and ABS to name a few. Overall I think the show is the poorer for it, it did reach a point in the late 90s where it was a showcase and a marketplace for all aspects of the hobby, a real one stop shop, but as rents and the nonsensical economics of the NEC took their toll, it has inevitably become sensible only for those with a high turnover/ margin to justify these costs.

 

I fear that this situation will continue and in 5 - 10 years time it will be very hard for specialist traders to justify standing at Warley.

 

A commercial three day show I'm involved in at the NEC costs on a space only basis (no stand build, electrics etc) over £70 a sq meter. Another show in another venue (co-incidentally also used for a model show during the year) costs less than a quarter of that sum. Incremental venue costs - exhibitor parking, power, etc widens that gap further and add in other aspects such as cheaper hotels outside the NEC catchment and the total bill for a similar show elsewhere amounts to around 15 - 20% of what the NEC show costs. Fair enough the non-NEC show probably spends less on marketing and we don't get as much trade from it but on a sales per pound spent basis, it's hugely better value.

 

Although I agree with the sentiment, this is a bit of a conundrum. Do you attend the local shows in numbers at similar expense to attending the biggest? Not that simple I am afraid. If you factor in fuel and overnight stay costs, it actually makes better sense to attend only the largest shows. You also need to be aware that the show organisers are just as cute in their own way as the NEC and would charge what they felt they could get away with based on expected numbers.

 

It is a balancing act to get the blend between selling to and entertaining/informing the attending public and making money for the organising body. Obviously if the traders lose money even on a modest outlay then they won't attend. Warley and very few others actually warrant hiring a vehicle and stopping over for one or two nights.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Although I agree with the sentiment, this is a bit of a conundrum. Do you attend the local shows in numbers at similar expense to attending the biggest? Not that simple I am afraid. If you factor in fuel and overnight stay costs, it actually makes better sense to attend only the largest shows. You also need to be aware that the show organisers are just as cute in their own way as the NEC and would charge what they felt they could get away with based on expected numbers.

 

It is a balancing act to get the blend between selling to and entertaining/informing the attending public and making money for the organising body. Obviously if the traders lose money even on a modest outlay then they won't attend. Warley and very few others actually warrant hiring a vehicle and stopping over for one or two nights.

 

David

 

I think the point is that shows vary in cost and customer profile, so a trader has to take both into account when assessing which to attend. As a 4mm etched kit producer, we had no more sales at Warley than at expoEM or S4um but at considerably greater cost.

 

At the risk of generalising there are "Regional Shows" of which Warley is the biggest but would also include York, Ally Pally, Railex, etc. There are then the "specialist" shows that are usually gauge related such as expoEMs, GOG Reading and Telford, S4ums, etc. There are then the local shows, literally hundreds and of varying size.

 

If you sell general items that aren't gauge related (paint, tools, electrical bits), then the visitors that attend regional and local shows may all be possible customers. The trade stand rent should reflect the number of visitors that attend the show. But why would a trader pay a high stand rent to attend a show that attracts a large nummber of people that wouldn't be interested in his products? If you sell specialist gauge related products, then the specialist shows provide the exposure that you need. It's horses for courses. The specialist shows are usually run by national Societies, who have identified a symbiotic relationship with the smaller suppliers and therefore make it viable (and enjoyable) for them to attend.

 

Would a 00 box shifter do well at GOG Telford, would a 7mm etched kit supplier sell much at expoEM? Simply getting a lot of visitors through the door doesn't mean that they are all potential customers for the more specialist suppliers. The big regional shows - including Warley - have become less worthwhile to the specialist suppliers and more suited to the box shifters.

 

 

Jol

[Kenton]

Would a 00 box shifter do well at GOG Telford

That, I suspect, would be highly unlikely. It is not just the gauge it is the nature of the product (RTR) and the specialist nature of the show. (Mom Pop and little'un less likely to attend)

 

would a 7mm etched kit supplier sell much at expoEM?

yes, quite possibly. I have been known to buy kits from one supplier who regularly turns up at ExpoEM - obviously he does 7mm kits as well and we have discussed the fact that he always brings a few of the 7mm kits and often sells out. Many modelers work in more than one scale or are simply attending ExpoEM as it is a very good show or is simply the only sizable event in the area.

 

The big regional shows - including Warley - have become less worthwhile to the specialist suppliers and more suited to the box shifters.

I think they never have been interested in the small supplier - they have always been structured towards the big RTR players and their announcements.

[edcayton]

Just a thought. The Warners shows get castigated on here for being over-commercial, and not paying enough for expenses, but they do get a good spread of specialist traders. Do they perhaps charge less for these stands?

 

Ed

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

David

 

I think the point is that shows vary in cost and customer profile, so a trader has to take both into account when assessing which to attend. As a 4mm etched kit producer, we had no more sales at Warley than at expoEM or S4um but at considerably greater cost. <snipped>

 

Jol

 

I agree but sometimes I wonder whether traders attend certain events for other reasons. Obviously a table top and a tatty display on a minimum space stand at Warley is going to attract less attention than a known box shifter taking up half a wall's worth but, depending on the stock carried, one can make a modest profit on a minimum stand. What I cannot see is how this taking up a lot of space and needing half a dozen guys to man it can make sense for a distant trader with hotel bills to pay. Even going home at night might not be a viable option if the round trip is over a hundred miles or so. Perhaps they rent staff for the show.

 

I would be interested to learn of the demographics of the Warley visitor. Your comment as to Warley being seen as 'regional' by you was illuminating. I have attended at least one of these shows (other than Warley) you mention, purely as a visitor, and found that the choice of venue can tend to fragment the displays and make random wandering and unfocussed viewing more of a problem.

 

I wonder whether the cost of going is just too high now for trader and visitor alike. If this is the case, one wonders whether it is the NEC or the organising body that needs to reduce the costs. It seems obvious that the use of Hall 5 but partitioned into a smaller space has been used by the Warley organisers presumably to save costs. They do listen to complaints though. Definitely more seating, brighter hall lights and wider gangways this year.

[Pennine MC]

The big regional shows - including Warley - have become less worthwhile to the specialist suppliers and more suited to the box shifters.

I think they never have been interested in the small supplier - they have always been structured towards the big RTR players and their announcements.

 

Mmm, not too sure about that. Warley show at the NEC has been running since what, the mid/late 80s, early 90s maybe? and many regional shows much, much longer than that. Manufacturer's presences and the growth of the 'box shifting' philosophy are a good bit more recent, I'd say, which would support the gist of Jol's statement

[mercig studios]

Just a thought. The Warners shows get castigated on here for being over-commercial, and not paying enough for expenses, but they do get a good spread of specialist traders. Do they perhaps charge less for these stands?

 

The Warners shows are considerably cheaper than Warley for stand space and also do a 'specialist' area, at least at Alexandra Palace, that is cheaper than the main hall.

 

M

[Barry O]

Mmm, not too sure about that. Warley show at the NEC has been running since what, the mid/late 80s, early 90s maybe? and many regional shows much, much longer than that. Manufacturer's presences and the growth of the 'box shifting' philosophy are a good bit more recent, I'd say, which would support the gist of Jol's statement

 

This year was the 18th at the NEC and I have - for some strange reason - attended everyone to date and a good few more at the Harry Mitchell.

 

The "box shifters "have always been there - as have specialist traders - some of whom (apparently) did good business there this year.

 

Its good that the bigger Manufacturing companies in the Model Railway Arena are involved - they do present new items at this show and do try to get stocks from their factories for the show. After all a large percentage of the Model Railway populace will, at some point, buy something ready to run or a railway book or magazine. Perhaps they are there as it is the biggest show in England and attracts large numbers of people - an ideal marketing opportunity - which may be why they are prepared to help with sponsorship.

 

I don't think you can compare the NEC to any of the Warners' shows - but I would suggest that the box shifters are a high proportion of traders at the Warners shows - the "specialists" were added in (at least at Doncaster) later..

[F-UnitMad]

I think they never have been interested in the small supplier - they have always been structured towards the big RTR players and their announcements.

 

 

Mmm, not too sure about that. Warley show at the NEC has been running since what, the mid/late 80s, early 90s maybe? and many regional shows much, much longer than that. Manufacturer's presences and the growth of the 'box shifting' philosophy are a good bit more recent, I'd say...

It was Warley's move to the NEC (1993) that involved the "Big players", as I see it, as they involved them for sponsorship in order to be able to afford the NEC in the first place. There have always been "box shifters" (anyone remember "Railmail of Watford"??); it's just that the Internet has revolutionised how easy it is to buy from them, and they are the ones now in the best placed financial position to attend events like NEC/Warley.

[Pennine MC]

Fair enough, I'll concede the Warley point, but Kenton included other 'big regional shows' - which as I said have been running much longer

[298]

For those in the Midlands, next Monday at 7.30pm on BBC one there will be a short article about the exibition by Pete Waterman.

 

 

The main point of the programme was to highlight the need to attract youngsters into what will otherwise be a dying hobby.

 

Can't find it on the BBC iPlayer yet, but when you do, have a look at the general lighting in the hall. Even the country's premier broadcasting company couldn't manage to work around such orangeness....

[Michael Delamar]

Liverpool Crown Street

Regards, Gerry.

 

 

thanks for the pic Gerry I really like it,

 

when I was planning and researching the layout thats how I imagined it, apart from the horrible backscene

 

cheers

 

Mike