Wigan Model Railway Exhibition 2010

[Eaton]

Everthing you say is right and we are very aware these facts. However there is another consideration that is rife amongst the Model Railway Fraternity and that is a willingness to pay a realistic entrance fee that would enable shows such as ours to build up a significant financial reserve. I have grown increasing weary of explaining to Senior Citizens why we cannot offer them entrance for less than a fiver. When you consider how many free hours are given to our show by ourselves, helpers such as yourself, layout operators and demonstrators you can't help thinking that we are being taken advantage off.

One thing however will be certain is that as our admission price has not risen for two years and with the rise of VAT then next years admission will not be £8. At the end of the day if you wish to see quality layouts then I am afraid quality has a cost.

I await the resultant uproar that will prove my point.

[Coombe Barton]

It would be very, very helpful if all shows did NOT offer senior citizen's discounts. I qualify, but will not be taking advantage as the show has to be financially viable to be able to continue.

[Long Line]

On the monatary front Peter you have my 100% agreement, and not being affiliated to the management of any model show i will stand up and say that a show of Wigan's standing and quality needs to get nearer to £15 ASAP.... and so do many others!... but woe betide any show that charges such and does not perform.. high prices demand high standards!

 

In fairness though the encouragement of new modellers must take a lead role at any event and to that end i would like to see (as a starting point) any primary aged child (EG-in uniform) getting in for free/ accompanied by a paying adult. All costs must also be looked at carefully if you are to put gate prices up and as an exhibitor, i will stand up and say that some layouts still ask too much of events in expenses, either by requiring too many operators for what they are doing/providing, or by using too many vehicles, or by hiring vans when a little more thought during the construction phase would have negated the need for such... it pains me whenever i attend shows to witness the sea of idle white vans, their meters slowly ticking away the profits!

 

Clearly the hobby is changing, certainly the numbers of participants are down, the modelling quality is rocketing upwards, the public's perception of standards and expected contents at shows grows yearly... so maybe its time to start and re-think the exhibitions financial/operational format and not just when best to hold it?

 

As one who has taken the 30 pieces of silver in the past, i accept that sustinance, travel and accommodation expenses are a luxury my team may loose one day and have begun to wonder both how i will manage such and why the expenses culture is one largely unique to the UK circuit (and i'll bet there's a few did not know that one?). Since 2006 approximatly 1:6 of the shows i have exhibited at have been done for free and market trends are seeing this becoming more commonplace.

 

Lets not forget that we are talking about model railway exhibitions here, not bread and milk.... its not life threatening, nobody has to attend, or do the work, or bring a layout and enjoy running it all weekend, its a luxury marketplace where you are free to charge what you want and each person makes a personal choice as to where to spend his cash.

 

Best wishes with the 2011 event, and no we won't be charging expenses..... again!

[Eaton]

We both organise an exhibition and we exhibit and we do expect the host club to look after us as we would endeavour to look after layouts that come to Wigan. We would expect to meet all reasonable out of pocket expenses and I think that is fair. After all we wish the very best layouts to come to Wigan in December and as you say we are in a competitive market. Which neatly brings me back to the orginal debate, will owners be happy to bring layouts to Wigan in the bad weather in December and secondly in order for us to have a financial safety net who pays. It can only be layouts in reduced expenditure, traders in increased rental or visitors in increased admission prices. It seems obvious to me which it should be. If you take any of the larger shows, Manchester, Stafford, York, Wakefield or Wigan and you consider how long it would take you to see and enjoy everything and compare that to a trip to the cinema or a football match then you can see how undersold a model railway exhibition is. It is also true that if a realistic admission price is charged then you don't need as many people through the door. It is also true that you would have to have a quality product and be able to attract the very best layouts.

If this sounds like a Catch 22 situation it is because it very much is!!

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I just don’t think many people realise how much effort and money is involved in staging a large show and all the risks involved with it. If it was not for the volunteers who man the shows plus exhibitors just taking just out of pocket expenses then shows would be much more expensive to stage and have much higher entrance fees.

 

We abolished the senior rate at Railex this year an even though the previous year it was only 50 pence cheaper the amount of people who moaned that there was no senior rate was quite big, we have also kept out adult price the same since 2005 at £6.50 and this is only going up to £7.00 in 2011 which I think for a few hours entertainment is good valve for money.

 

We chose the late May bank holiday for Railex in 2005 when we went two days as we wanted to avoid other shows our previous date was in October/November so not only did we go for summer we went for a bank holiday date too, was this a risk? Well we now have over three times the amount of people who came to our one day show with numbers going up year on year. I don’t think it when a show is staged its type of show it is and the standard of layouts and trade.

 

David

[Barry O]

Strangely enough, it appears that the level of seniors at recent Exhibitions I have attended seems to be the major growth area as far as attendees goes. While this is good if they pay less than others diminshing returns are a reality not just something which may happen.

 

As far as dates goes - WIgan have done very well by being a Christmas show - try and keep it that way please....

[Long Line]

In reply to Eatons- would i have exhibited this weekend question... yes for the following reasons,

1- If fit and i say i'm coming then i'm coming.

2- i have designed my layouts to be transported in my Land Rover and so if i cant get there, it wont matter as there wont be anyone there to miss me.

3- i'm a nutter and would look upon it as a challenge!

 

It is also worth mentioning that we are seeing a reduction in the smaller one man band manufacturers that we need to continue serving the hobbies market for small quantity runs of scale parts materials and tools. Disregarding those who are retailers (box shifters) and selling on others products, these traders are certainly as much if not equally as attracting as layouts to modellers considering attending an event. So if supporting our hobby often for little gain why penalise them.

 

I have made allowances to ensure my layouts are taken to shows in the cheapest most flexible transport option-my own Landy and trailer and have designed and re-designed them too many times to remember so as to squeeze out any surplus space and operators. Obviously not everyone has a 4x4 but you can beg borrow or rent them along with trailers-either box or flat bed with which to move layouts around in bad weather, and it is this more flexible and considered transport approach that is where the layout owners could well serve the circuit better. At a recent show we only used the trailer, it being dragged by another vehicle already taking a layout so moving two for the price of one.

 

Another sore point always skirted around is the use of surplus exhibition funds for whatever reason, and perhaps the time has come to start and consider this practice and if necessary ask club members to pay for their own layouts and subs -i do and so do a great many other privateers who put the majority of the layouts onto the UK circuit.

 

 

The sort of things i would like to see at the major events are...

 

-Kids getting into events for free.

-Investment in promoting 'railway modelling' and not merely RTR box opening.

-Support be given to the small specialist suppliers.

-Major events creating cash reserves to ensure they continue.

-Exhibitions organizers ensure they squeeze their belts/if not already too tight.

-A culture be created in which layout owners are encouraged/educated and assisted into wanting to make their projects as cost and manpower effective as possible and to build considerations about the logistical operation into their project from the outset.

- The scale associations and guilds ensure that their own genre of the hobby is duly demonstrated at all the major events and become more supportive of such events.

- Early closing on Sundays (when the closing day) to assist exhibitors getting home, ideally around 4.30pm.

-An endorsement be made by the key events (to be an advisory guide to others) as to what is acceptable expected of exhibitors/show organisers regarding the provision of accommodation, travel expenses and the provision and consumption of beverages and meals for exhibitors at shows.

-The active encouragement of host groups to honestly offer to visiting layouts the use of capable 'home' operators, who are familiar with the idiosyncratic nature of the required scale/gauge or operational method.

-Exhibitions become a place where all modellers can bring there own models to discuss ask and give advice to each other.

-That the exhibition circuit continues to promote our hobby to the outside world.

 

...Oh and since its Christmas....please put the prices up!

 

Merry Christmas, Mark

[Eaton]

I am sorry Mark, it was my mistake for not making myself clearer, when I said would you have cancelled the show if it had been this weekend, I was putting you in Steve Roberts's position,ie What would you have done if you had been the Exhibition Manager? Perhaps I could ask 'Chessieliner' the same question and I wonder if you had to make that decision would you still think December is a good idea. As to 'Wigan doing well by being the Christmas Show' I rather thought it had more to do with us doubling the size of the exhibition and attracting the very best layouts. If it is just to do with Christmas perhaps we have got it all wrong and what is needed is more decorations, a Santa and less layouts. Certainly food for thought. Presumably Mince Pies.

[Coombe Barton]

The fact that Wigan is at that time of the year enables me to get there without considering 'what else do I have to miss' or 'if I go can I afford to spend anthing'. Being Christmas has nothing to do with it. Being spaced out from other shows does.

[Long Line]

Have that.

 

Having been in bed for days i missed out on the nations latest weather panic, know doubt once again fuelled by our overzealous 24hr news culture.

 

At such a late date the numbers would decide for me i guess?

 

If the hall/catering/hotels are deposited/paid in full? then i guess you carry on and do what you can, you beg borrow and steal layouts and stewards from the areas unaffected and soldier on-in the hope that you break even. If however there were a cut of point financially speaking where reduced loses could be covered by future years or your 'surplus' and the situation were grim enough, then you do what we used to do in rallying when you crashed out... radio in your off and take the fuel money to the nearest pub and get the team drunk!

 

 

The Wigan show is good because you have made it good, but being the last show before Christmas does hold an undeniably romantic appeal. But i think i have already agreed that if the situation is continually as close to the bone as you have intimated, then to move to another weekend might be the safest coarse.

[Eaton]

I think that we are begining to think we need a safer situation, one were luck is not so much of a factor. We are meeting in the pub this coming Tuesday when no doubt this will all be discussed.

[PLD]

Which neatly brings me back to the orginal debate, will owners be happy to bring layouts to Wigan in the bad weather in December and secondly in order for us to have a financial safety net who pays.

 

Personally, Hull to Wigan is an easy journey which is relatively low risk for weather disruption, so how the date fits in with other exhibitions and other commitments would have a greater bearing...

 

I may actually be more likely to take a layout to Wigan in poor mid-December weather than if it was better weather but consecutive weeeknd to exhibiting at another major show or if it clashed with outdoor events in spring/summer. ...

[Gordy]

This show was fantastic!! Manchester used to be the big Christmas show in the North West. I would say that Wigan this year was the best ever!! Needed to take a liquid break half way through there was soo much to see!!

 

The show has inspired me and my modelling buddies to ditch our American Modelling and go back to 7mm finescale. Number one layout soon to appear on the blogs section of this site, hopefully we will be able to exhibit it at Wigan in the future.

[RedgateModels]

Which neatly brings me back to the orginal debate, will owners be happy to bring layouts to Wigan in the bad weather in December

 

Try keeping me, Summat Colliery and team away in 2011

[Long Line]

Eaton-

 

On Tuesday if a date move does set the mood. (not wanting to teach teacher) don't make the mistake others have and rely on the NWFMRC listings!

 

As well as the obvious list of model railway shows, there also must be taken into account the scale guild shows and AGM's, railway interest associations activities and museum based events. Local sporting schedules, holidays, and naturally weather trends, should not be forgotten. Don't take the dates in RM as a given either, some don't appear every year, some get left out and many move a weekend sideways from year to year and lastly remember that the dates of Easter and Warley effect a lot of events.

 

As Wigan develops it is surely going to require the participation of more and more 'outside groups' so their inclusion/consideration at this stage is a must, in my book.

 

What you clearly cant do is keep moving around - this will surely brass folk off, so its a one bite of the cherry approach from my viewpoint.

 

Best of luck-Mark

[Mac]

Eaton.

 

If you do change the date of the Wigan Show will you give plenty of notice on your website.

Currently it's still reading December 2011.

 

I personally think your reasons for wanting to move the dates are entirely valid, especially

the financial one.

 

You might have a word with the Blyth & District Club who's Show moved from a God Forsaken

November slot to late August. I think it's now called Railex NE. They seemed to be packing the

visitors in when I went on the Saturday.

 

I always thought May/June to be a nice time (I still recall ScaleRail at New Lanark). So long as

you don't have a major clash with another large show.

 

I've already picked out my shows for next year...Chatham, Blyth and Manchester in October.

Wigan's not on my list unless a layout I "really must see" is appearing.

 

Good luck with the Show.

 

Mac.

 

 

[Leander]

My reason for posting, as Exhibition Manager of Rochdale MRG, is that a decision has been made to shift the Rochdale exhibition dates after next February's exhibition. The next show, following on from February 2011 will therefore be on the 5th & 6th November 2011.

 

The idea will be that the Rochdale exhibition will take place on the first weekend with a November date in it. By doing this we intend to avoid clashing with any other important northern shows. Indeed our major motivation in changing the date has been to avoid clashing with the Stafford exhibition, as our research tells us that a significant number of would-be Rochdale attendees are opting to go to Stafford. We should also avoid any inclement weather which has been a feature of early February for the past few years.

 

I realise that there are a number of shows in the autumn period but feel that our choice of date should prevent us clashing with any significant others. In particular, it is our wish to avoid a clash with the Leeds and Hull exhibitions. I further realise that there are other exhibitions further afield which certain of our traders attend on that weekend and I trust that the WFRM will be mindful of this matter when discussing their Exhibition dates on Tuesday evening.

 

I have been somewhat hesitant in posting this as we do not want any seeds of uncertainty regarding the date of the show to be planted in the minds of the exhibition going public which might harm the attendance at our February show.

[Eaton]

Following our usual Post Exhibition Management Meeting ( The Christmas Get Together in the Pub), the consensus of opinion was that we should indeed change the date of next years exhibition. The simple reasoning being that it seems to make no sense at all to hold an exhibition which is so dependant on travelling visitors at a time when people are the least likely to travel.

As a consequence Steve Roberts, our Exhibition Manager is in negotiations with our venue and our hotels as to the feasibility of our two preferred options.

We will as a matter of course keep everyone informed once our plans become definite.

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I just hope you don't move it to Railex weekend in May, even though we are quite a few miles apart we both share the same finescale traders, that would have to choose which show to attend.

 

David

[RedgateModels]

consensus of opinion was that we should indeed change the date of next years exhibition

 

I too have concerns with this, I would hate to miss the show due to other bookings etc

[Eaton]

I just hope you don't move it to Railex weekend in May, even though we are quite a few miles apart we both share the same finescale traders, that would have to choose which show to attend.

 

David

We always come down to visit Railex so we're not going to choose that weekend. Hopefully you will get a chance to visit us.

[David Bigcheeseplant]

Thanks, I have been to Wigan although not in the last couple of years

 

David

[Eaton]

As one of the travelling visitors we would hope to atract to Wigan we would be very interested to know the reasons why you hav'nt travelled to Wigan for the last two years, as obviously your reasons would have some relevance to our deliberations. Rest assured whatever your reasons are there would be no hurt feelings on our part, we are known for our thick skins up north.

[David Bigcheeseplant]

Its quite a hike for me an unless there are a few of us travelling up to in one car it can be a long lonely journey, and at that time of year I tend to be involved with Chrismas shopping, and as I put in a previous post I prefer to travel when its still light.

 

David

[Coombe Barton]

And for me visiting Wigan will really depend on which weeklend it eventually lands.