Wigan Model Railway Exhibition 2010

[Eaton]

Its quite a hike for me an unless there are a few of us travelling up to in one car it can be a long lonely journey, and at that time of year I tend to be involved with Chrismas shopping, and as I put in a previous post I prefer to travel when its still light.

 

David

Thanks David, this is exactly the conclusions our management team have arrived at, and I am sure you are not the only visitor that is put off by a long journey in December. Hence the need for change.

[Eaton]

And for me visiting Wigan will really depend on which weeklend it eventually lands.

We are very aware of the potential clashes with other major shows and will do our best to avoid them but at the end of the day we need visitors to be able to get to Wigan. The choice you make should be if you wish to come to Wigan or not, rather than can I get to Wigan or not.

[Coombe Barton]

That really is not my point. My visiting Model exhibitions is not because of clashes but because on some weekends I have to be elsewhere. Where it was, in December, meant that it was a weekend that is towards the end of my work cyclee, and hence much more likely that I'd have free time to visit.

[ozzyo]

I can do Wigan in about 2;30 from BiF and just having a look on National rail enquiries the times from Sheffield are about the same, not like 4;30. unless you are taking into account front door to exhibition door.

Dep. BiF 07;30. Arrive Wig 09;09. Arrive Spoons 09;15, have breakfast, Dep. Spoons 10;15, arrive exhibition 10;45.

 

Dep Wig approx 18;00, then well?????????????

 

Had a good day out. arrive back home on the last train (approx 00;15).

 

Thanks to all who organized this years show, I WILL be back next year,

 

OzzyO.

[Mac]

 

the consensus of opinion was that we should indeed change the date of next years exhibition. The simple reasoning being that it seems to make no sense at all to hold an exhibition which is so dependant on travelling visitors at a time when people are the least likely to travel.

We will as a matter of course keep everyone informed once our plans become definite.

 

Eaton.

 

Pleased to hear you're going to alter the date and weren't

swayed by the whingers.

 

If next years show has a layout that interests me it would

make me reconsider about making a weekend of it

in the Manchester area.

 

Mac.

[Guest Max Stafford]

Why not have it the last weekend in November...?

I think the show's fine just where it is. If it ain't broke, why fix it?

 

Dave.

[PLD]

Why not have it the last weekend in November...?

 

Wakefield! = Wigan Instantly lose most of their Yorkshire visitors...

 

Watching with interest as we are booked to be at Wigan with the Stealth Bomber next year, but if the new date chosen is too close to any of the other shows booked next year that might have to change as it would be unfair to drop the other show...

 

Paul

[beast66606]

Peter,

 

you wanted the words of the beast

 

Whilst accepting the risks, I wouldn't move it.

 

Simples

[kevpeo]

One of the reasons we (the Furness MRC) have moved our show from Easter to October 8/9 this year(second weekend from now on) was because the weather had become too nice! Others included the often FIVE! days of van hire cost, double time for Sundays/bank hols and the fact that families, which are our 'bread and butter', spend their out of school term time in Spain ext these days, not Cumbria. Much as we try to bring quality layouts to our show we cannot rely on the modellers to travel to our relatively out of the way/small show. Due to our 'legendary' hospitality we don't seem to have any problems getting the layouts to travel though! Kev.

[Eaton]

Replying to posts 229 and 234 I feel you are missing the point a little. Regardless of how you might wish to visit the show in December it would be a pointless trip if it was cancelled due to the weather, and that is the reason for the change. We are no longer prepared to take that financial risk when it can be so easily avoided.

 

Our Exhibition Manager's negotiations for a new date have been somewhat curtailed by fall on the ice resulting in a broken wrist. Who in their right mind would plan to have an exhibition in conditions like this!!

[Tricky-CRS]

I look foward too Wigan show as it is great quality. I would agree with Mark (Long Line) that the entery price should be increased and children enter free.

 

We need to find away of encouraging more people in to the hobby. One thing is to take it more seriously ourselfs.

In other hobbies money seems less important. A football fan would not think twice to paying £20+ for 2hrs entertainment. While model rail expos charge less than a £10er for a days worth.

 

I think moving the date is a big risk, unless you go for May/June. May is aukward because of bank holidays, also N Gauge AGM.

 

 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

[lmsforever]

I agree with David about the succesful change of date and location of Railex it is something that when I started the show I did not have the luxury of , the origonal location was the only one available and they were cooperative as the people at Wigan seem to be.Wigan is an excellent show and deserves a good attendance by the public,when I visited last year the standard of layouts was very high with good traders ,hope the new date is in a month when its warm,standing on the station when its cold is not nice!!!Exhibition costs must have spiraled since I last was involved for a show the quality of Wigan £10 per person with a discount for youngsters ,as these are the future,would be a reasonable price.The cost of venues,insurance ,exhibitor participation etc all has to be paid for to many modelers seem to expect a great show for ten pence something that is impossible ,I hope that you will ignore the whingers and carry on with this excellent show.One last thing it is pleasing to see so many shows copying the name Raillex a name I plucked from thin air when asked what the show would be called perhaps I should have copyrited it and then licensed it out to other clubs! Chris Lowe

[vitalspark]

As one of the members of `Alloa` who had to reluctantly give up on travelling south this year I have followed this theme with interest.

I can see the problems and sympathise with the organisers for whatever brave decision they take.

One thing though regarding new dates for next year....please don`t change to Oct 1st/2nd as we have agreed to support a local show that weekend and are all very much looking forward to returning to Wigan!

 

Couple of points re transporting and costs.

It has been suggested that 4x4s and trailer hire might be more suitable.

Oh that it was that easy. Its not the 4x4s.. we have access to a modern and reliable LR and could lay hands on another..its the sheer size of the layout we are transporting.

We need a 4metre panel van and it just fits in with some clever loading. Perhaps we should consider a small highly detailed end to end for visiting exhibitions.. but personnally I think the paying public like to see large finescale layouts.

`Alloa` is a large layout but is built to finescale standards with faithfully reproduced buildings and all signals not only operable but operating..including the banner repeaters that nobody sees!

 

Wigan would now appear to be regarded as the premier Finescale show in the country..rightly so in my opinion as I can`t think of a single large show that is better..so an increase in the ticket price would clearly be justified.

The specialist EM and S4 shows are without doubt superb but are much smaller and often feature very pre group specific smaller layouts...beautifully modelled but lacking the impact that the bigger finescale layouts possess.

The organisers at Wigan seem to manage to satisty all tastes with quantity and no compromnise to quality..a difficult taslk.

In saying that I will be making the trek south in April for the Wakefield scale show and look forward to some of the exhibits advertised being modelled in the BR period.

 

Whatever dates are decided upon the show will I am sure continue to attract the crowds..a credit to the organisers.

 

Looking forward to 2011...whatever the date!

 

Dave

[Long Line]

The suggestion of using a 4x4 and trailer was merely as an example, accepting that many existing layouts were built to only go in a large van or 7 1/2 tonne'r.

 

 

Nether would i wish to no longer see large layouts such as Alloa appearing at events (as one building several) as i feel they have much to offer the viewer, I.E. that which they could never achieve, due either to time budget or space constraints, and so have much appeal.

 

 

The point I was trying to get across was a suggestion that as exhibitors we could do much to ease the strain on event organizers by becoming more flexible in manpower and vehicle needs, so that as and when (as they know doubt will continue to do) transport weather or manpower issues effect an attendance, an alternate solution can be sought. I see these issues as the key reasons that layouts are cancelled from attending events and such must when occurring (emphasised only more so by the larger layouts cancelling) cause much consternation to event organizers. Accordingly a layout could be built to ideally fit into a single vehicle, with the additional option of being able to either take less of it or transport it in several smaller vehicles, which might mean weatherproofing your packing cases or loading the boxes in different orientations. It could also be counter argued that the hire costs when applicable, of several trailers (if 4x4's were free to borrow?) would be greater than that of a single vehicle but having the flexibility to offer such and then permit the event to decide re-the cost implications against the non attendance would i feel be a better scenario.

 

Clearly there will always be the scenario for which nothing could have been done, but i feel that as the exhibiting branch of the hobby becomes (as is clearly evident up and down the country) more professional both in levels of quality and service then all parties need to become more flexible and prepared beforehand to counter problems. To this end it may be prudent of event organizers of winter shows to ask of the layout operators upon enquiry how the layout is transported, where it is stored, how easily it can be accessed and if bad weather has effected it previously and if the answer is of sufficient concern then have a back up plan.Furthermore where layouts are stored in premises that can be effected by bad weather would it not be prudent (if practical) to move the layout in pieces if necessary to a single or multiple alternate locations before any known bad weather periods occurring emmediatly prior to an outing? Accepting that such would mean more work, this goes back my point that, new layouts would be better planned with more care surrounding their housing logistical operation and transport needs.

 

Looking forwards to seeing Alloa at Wigan soon, Mark

[Eaton]

As far as booking layouts for our exhibition we have never in the first instance taken into consideration the expense being far more concerned with the availability and the quality. Layouts such as 'Alloa' are few and far between as they combine size and quality and as such are crowd pullers. We were very lucky to have 'Bath Green Park' last year and 'The Gresley Beat', 'Coppull', 'Bee Lane', 'Charlotte Road' 'Mostyn' and 'Runswick Leamside' have all attended our exhibition over the last few years. Layouts such as these have always been in high demand and are always at the top of any exhibition managers wish list, as they provide the centre pieces for most exhibitions.

Whilst the points Mark makes may well be valid I don't think you can expect exhibitors such as these to do other than provide you with an exhibit, give you their projected costs and the rest is down to the exhibition organisers. To me it is very easy to see where the extra finance should be generated to cover exhibition expenditure, which brings me to my intial point raised many posts ago, if you wish to see quality then you should be prepared to pay the cost at the door. In my opinion ALL model railway exhibitions are underselling themselves. No one should expect in this day and age to get an afternoons entertainment for a fiver as you do at many exhibitions. All this does is deprive the club of the required monies to improve the quality, which has the effect of reducing attendance, turning away modellers and driving away particularly the specialist trade. This is a downward spiral that is unheathy for the hobby.

[vitalspark]

Hi Mark

Your points are definately valid and although we were bitterly dissappointed not to have made it south we have learned something from all of this and its as you suggest..we will have the layout dismantled and possibly stored in a more convenient location well before next years show.

 

I suppose it takes something like this to make you realise just how the weather can upset everything.

Had we done this we would have been there as we could have driven down on the Friday ok. It was the lost days before that caused the problem.

Several members valiantly spent the previous Sunday literally digging their way into the clubrooms..its a rural location..only to have the thing snowed up again on the Monday night.

 

Next year we will be prepared..so some good has come out of this.

 

On expenses and keeping costs down we as a group do try to keep our costs to a minimum with our 8 man crew travelling 3 in the van and 5 in a support car.

And on the entry price..yes I agree that the door price must rise although the general perception of the public is I am sure that whatever its set at is about right so when you up it by 30% or so there will no doubt be protests but we need to remind them as has been previously stated that where else do you get entertainment for an afternoon for a fiver?..how much is charged across the road for 90mins?

 

Anyway lets hope that the other clubs that were caught short by the weather have put similair contingency plans in action for next year.

 

Heres to a good New Year to you all and a successful exhibition in 2011.

 

Dave

[peterl]

Interesting discussions. a couple of points, to really reduce the probability of bad weather causing the cancellation etc then you are considering sometime between April and October i.e. British Summer Time. Although you could still get flooded out!

The points re the entry price, as you will see from my signiture, the price people are prepared to pay is what they think what is on offer is worth. Comparing the price for a model railway Show with any other form of entertainment is not really very helpful. Football fans think watching their team is worth the entry price, the local population may not think the same about the Wigan, or any other, Model Railway Show! OK the modellers might pay more but what percentage of your door are actually modellers and what percenatge are local residents? If you don't know then you should check.

And yes I do have the breakdown for the visitors to the Hull Show!

Peter

[Eaton]

A very large proportion of our visitors are travelling modellers and should, in my opinion, be prepared to pay for quality, as I would myself. It is because of the difficulties travelling that is prompting the date rethink.

[peterl]

A very large proportion of our visitors are travelling modellers and should, in my opinion, be prepared to pay for quality, as I would myself. It is because of the difficulties travelling that is prompting the date rethink.

 

Can you quantify 'a very large proportion'? you may be right but you really do need the research to back it up.

Peter

[Eaton]

I think we can say with a fair degree of certainty that we are a 'modellers show' and this is born out by the fact that we can support the specialist trade. Our research and feedback also suggests that visitors do travel considerable distances to come to Wigan, one poster on this thread travelling a 528 mile round trip. Last year we had people coming up from the West Country to see Bath Green Park. We always get visitors from Scotland and this year saw a healthy selection of Scottish notes being banked. The group we have lost are the locals and this has decreased since we moved from the town centre and in an attempt to draw them back we offer a very reasonable child ticket.

Our last survey revealed that almost 60% of our attendees travelled more than 80 miles to come to Wigan and 40% over 120. If our attendance is to be consistant then we need to be able to count on the support of these travellers and it makes no sense at all to have an exhibition during the months when travelling is so unpredictable. At the moment we are looking to relocate and become a Summer Show rather than inhabit the dark days of winter.

[Long Line]

The figures Peter has Just quoted clearly enforce the need for a change of date, with so many distanced travellers attending, you have to ensure their attendance to remain viable.

 

Re the Scottish bank notes that's probably my mate Keith-he always tries to make sure Cheltenham models have a good show.... seriously though we both noticed a lot of Scots at the event, far more than i can say i have seen at any other single event (accepting Long Line has not exhibited in Scotland yet?! and that we were on a demo and not operating the layout so in public contact more so than normal), regardless though the shows location as one of the 'serious' events 'up-north' is clearly drawing visitors form 'over the border', again emphasising the need for reliable transport links.

[peterl]

So the data that you have clearly confirms your target audience, and therefore you need to do every thing that you can to ensure that the target audience grows and can gain access to the Show. A summer Show does seem to make sense but with the caveat that you need to be sure that a measurable number of that target audience are not away in far distance places.

Picking up on the comments by PLD some posts back, you will also need to be sure that the layouts you wish to invite are also available and that the operating teams are not elswhere on the proposed dates of your Show.

Look forward to finding out the dates of the next Wigan Show soon, not sure when the rest of the Crumley team will book their holidays but!

Peter

[Eaton]

On Friday it was snowing again in Wigan but today it has been pleasent and sunny and all trace of the white stuff has gone, however the winter weather and its unpredictability have been major topics of conversation between our exhibition management team. I think we all agree that holding our exhibition in December makes life very difficult for us and all our travelling visitors, and an early summer or early autumn exhibition has a certain appeal.

However when you look at the exhibition calendar then the true nature of the congestion becomes very apparent. For us not to exchange one risk for another we need to be three weeks away from any other major exhibition and also the major holiday months of July and August. There is only one week available in mid June, at the tail end of the exhibition season that may be suitable, which would leave us 22 weeks to undertake a major re-organisation of layouts, traders and sponsors and even less for material that has to go to print, for a 2011 exhibition. We feel that this timescale is not a realistic option. Reluctantly we will have to accept the risks whilst at the same time take as many steps as possible to reduce them.

Therfore our 2011 exhibition will be in its usual spot, the weekend of the 10th & 11th December, leaving us with time to discuss with all our contributers a possible move in 2012.

[Coombe Barton]

I for one am very glad of that - moving to June would have been very close to ExpoEM and Railex Aylesbury - both of which trade stands take a heavy toll on the wallet and credit cards. I'd be able to come, hopefully, but not spend which, of course, would not be so good for the traders.

[PLD]

Therfore our 2011 exhibition will be in its usual spot, the weekend of the 10th & 11th December, leaving us with time to discuss with all our contributers a possible move in 2012.

A sensible decision for 2011 made for logical reasons, but I think a firm decision one way or the other on 2012 needs to be made very soon and can't wait until after this years show...

 

Paul