Wigan Model Railway Exhibition 2010

[Kits from Somerset]

We are insured, and this year we took out extra 'foul weather insurance' so our pre-exhibition expenses would have been covered but not, as you say, any expected profit. If we stay in December then we are going to have to think hard and long about reducing those pre-exhibition expenses. We do a lot of advertising and this is our single biggest pre-exhibition expense so we may need to rely a lot more on word-of-mouth and the Rmweb and our own website.

In our area I know of two shows that were cancelled due to last years bad weather, Preston and Workington, and both have changed dates. Like you I would like to hear of their experiences with the insurance situation. I believe it was not plain sailing with the Workington club.

 

 

'foul weather insurance' normally only covers the days the show in on, so if the snow stopped at 23:55 on Thursday and stayed away the three days, and the snow was 6' (1.8M) deep you most likely to not get a penny from your insurance. This will apply also to flooding as well as in the case of our local flower show (Taunton) in 1997 when the site got flooded but as it stayed dry on the show days they did not get a penny from there foul weather insurance.

[Eaton]

We added the 'foul weather insurance' to our normal insurance and as we suspect that would not completely cover the risk. Our insurance costs are now quite substantial and added to this is the question as to the length of time taken to settle the claim which I believe was the issue at Workington.

If we vacated our week in December would we see any other Society race to replace us by putting their exhibition on in the second weekend in December, I think not. Which begs the question, why are we doing it?

[Penlan]

...... If we vacated our week in December would we see any other Society race to replace us by putting their exhibition on in the second weekend in December, I think not. Which begs the question, why are we doing it?

Wasn't the old, old Manchester show on the second weekend of December, possibly even the third, I know it use to be very close to Christmas.

These sort of dates do make life a little tricky on the domestic front in this enlightened age of equality,

let alone all the jollies that seem to happen in December when your retired.

[Leander]

Manchester was on the last weekend before Christmas (although whether or not it began originally on a different date, I know not), then moved to the first weekend in the month (i.e. the weekend before Wigan). There then followed the great date swap with Warley.

[Eaton]

Wasn't the old, old Manchester show on the second weekend of December, possibly even the third, I know it use to be very close to Christmas.

These sort of dates do make life a little tricky on the domestic front in this enlightened age of equality,

let alone all the jollies that seem to happen in December when your retired.

I think you are right, there was a time when Wigan and Manchester were both in December. I seem to remember that Manchester changed dates with Warley, I maybe wrong as it was a while ago.

We are very aware that changing dates is a minefield and it will not be something we will rush into. If we do change 'sods law' will ensure that there will be no snow or fog next December.

[Long Line]

Planning a model railway exhibition around the weather.... sounds like a prophecy to me Peter?.... one almost might say witch craft!

 

Will bring my largest scales and a duck to our next meeting.

 

Mark

[Eaton]

The weather in December obviously contributes to the financial risk and if you can avoid it why take that risk.

[Guest stuartp]

... very close to Christmas. These sort of dates do make life a little tricky on the domestic front ...

 

That is why I have never been to Wigan so far. Regardless of the weather the last couple of weeks before Christmas are out for me (and I suspect others) simply because all the tedious pre-Christmas faffing about means that trips out have to be fitted round everything else, not days out in their own right as an exhibition would be. Warley is out for the same reason.

 

You'll know your audience demographic, how much more passing trade would you get if your casual punters weren't all trudging round the Trafford Centre ? I appreciate that this might be less of a factor for a finescale show than for some local club shows but it might be something to consider.

[Eaton]

Our audience demographic is the main reason for considering a change. Over the last four years we have seen a considerable change, we have lost the casual passing trade and replaced these with the travelling modeller. Judging by the Scottish bank notes we collected over the weekend many come from north of the border, so the weather has to be such that people can travel, otherwise it will not be just the deep snow that we will be in.

[ScRSG]

Interesting that you are now discussing the matter of December exhibitions, and certainly as one of the layouts (Alloa) that couldn't manage due to the weather last week up here in Scotland we would be all in favour of a move to a date much more likely to avoid the worst of the weather. There does seem to be a dearth of quality exhibitions in spring and autumn. I know there is an argument that summer type shows lose a lot of their audience, but I would argue that a true quality exhibition such as Wigan, your audience would travel to this show no matter what the date. You have a "national" type show and to my mind this would not be dramatically affected by the date.

 

As an aside, the weather in Glasgow this weekend would have allowed us to set off quite easily with our layout (big van and support vehicle), to be faced with what?? and would we have got back even if we had managed to get there? Hmmm, a new date has to be considered, you can't predict this weather at this time of year with any certainty, but I am glad for your sake that insurance is available, but if these patterns continue, the insurers may well not wish to take the risk.

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I guess any date in November December January Febuary and March are always in the show risk part of the year, remember that some years all we get is just a dusting so is this just an over reaction.

 

As for Railex in May we do have heathy numbers and its really nice to wave off the last exibitor on the Sunday night when its still light.

 

David

[Eaton]

It may well be an over reaction but this is the second year in a row that we have escaped by the skin of our teeth. For what we risk financially would we be pushing our luck to risk another exhibition in December. We would consider ourselves lucky if it rained all weekend as it frequently has.

 

An exhibition in May, well that must be pure joy. June may be even better.

[David Bigcheeseplant]

August is rather empty on the exhibition calender, personally I would travel futher if I was driving to a show and return in the daylight.

 

David

[Eaton]

I wonder if August is rather empty for the same reason as December is empty, as it also is a problematic month, being as it is the prime holiday time. Would August prove popular with visiting layouts and traders.

Moving to August might be exchanging one risk for another.

[Long Line]

If you start playing ping pong with your dates, in an attempt to avoid difficult issues the only thing you will do is loose the sense of continuity the customer has with your current date.

 

After all what are you going to do about.. changes to the weather in future years, sporting events, strikes, political events, state events, transport works... the list is truly endless.

 

Dont forget good weather will empty a hall just as readily as bad!

[Eaton]

Here's a question Mark, what would you have done if the exhibition had been this weekend? Would you have cancelled or gone ahead?

[bob hughes60]

I returned to the show and hobby this year; last time I went to the show it was in the Parson's Walk College building.

I liked nipping in with a pre-booked ticket past the queue and having the time to browse and buy at trader's stalls.

Some excellent secondhand locos bargains.

What I did enjoy was the free advice from experienced modellers and traders, it is a very freindly hobby.

You can just switch off and gawp at the excellent layouts in a variety of gauges.

I live locally (six miles) but DO NOT move the time !

In the hectic run up to Christmas this counts as an oasis in a frenetic desert where you lose yourself; that is until

the mobile goes with demands of "where are you?" . Followed by " you've spent how much ....?!?!"

An excellent, freindly show that avoids the aircraft hangar syndrome.

Well done to all concerned

[PLD]

It may well be an over reaction but this is the second year in a row that we have escaped by the skin of our teeth. For what we risk financially would we be pushing our luck to risk another exhibition in December. We would consider ourselves lucky if it rained all weekend as it frequently has.

 

An exhibition in May, well that must be pure joy. June may be even better.

 

 

Well second weekend in January is free now Preston have moved because of snow at the time last season!! or the October weekend now vacated by Blackburn but given their sponsorship, I'm guessing you won't want to go head-to-head with BRM's Peterbrough show...

 

Seriously though, I'm not sure there is a weekend during February - May and September - early December without a show somewhere along the Lancashire/Yorkshire M62 corridor or a major show elsewhere in England, so any move would have to be to summer or decide who's toes you tread on and risk upsetting potential exhibitors/visitors from that club plus competing for layouts/traders and visitors...

[Long Line]

Here's a question Mark, what would you have done if the exhibition had been this weekend? Would you have cancelled or gone ahead?

 

Sorry Peter, I could not have helped this weekend, as i caught a bad cold/chest of someone at the Wigan show last weekend and have spent the last six days barking like a dog!

 

Looking back thirty years, model railway shows numbered over 600 annually with many seeing long lines of punters each day and numbers of 4-5000 attendees being reported at many. Today we still have over 300 shows but nowhere near the same number of enthusiasts. In essence the event schedule has halved whereas for whatever reason the audience is vastly less and to only worsen the situation all the associated costs have increased beyond proportion and the punters are expecting a lot more!

 

Surely this is having a greater effect than the weather, royal weddings etc etc, on the UK exhibition circuit.

 

This continued lack of surplus income prevents most events from building up a safety net of cash for the proverbial rainy day, so enforcing the witnessed year on year concerns of' 'will we or won't we break even' and all the associated yet genuine concerns such generates as raised in the pages prior.

[Allegheny1600]

This ensuing debate is not too dissimilar to the editorial in the most recent MRJ, I think.

We have lost the last city centre show due to constantly rising costs, are we now to lose the last December (Christmas) show for cost/weather reasons?

If every show in the UK changed dates to spring/autumn, the chances are that shows would overlap too much and visitor numbers would drop even more.

ISTM that whenever a club/group/organisation holds an exhibition - IF they need people through the door in order to turn a profit, then there is a risk - pure and simple!

Therefore;

All exhibitions carry risk!

What can be done to minimise this risk?

Advertising - to make sure as many people as possible know about the show.

Quality layouts.

Quality traders.

A well known venue that is easy to get to with good parking.

A well known date - "it's December, it must be Wigan etc, etc"

.

If Wigan were to change date, I believe they would lose out for at least a couple of years until peoples “knowledge†and even perception of the exhibition were to reform once more. This could be very damaging to the organising groups finances, the very thing they are evidently trying to avoid.

Whereas, if they hold onto their ’date’ Wigan can, hopefully with ease, hold onto their quality traders and the fairly priceless public perception they currently hold.

The weather will be whatever the weather will be, no-one can do anything about that. I would no sooner go to an exhibition if it were baking hot 30 degrees outside than to a show where it was -10 outside. In fact of the two, I would be more likely to go to the colder show (but that’s just me!).

.

All I can suggest is that Wigan spread the risk by inviting layouts (& traders) from a good even spread across the country, which I understand they already do. They have a very good format, please don’t risk it all because of some snow ‘jitters’, we never used to be so bothered by a bit of snow, did we? After all, are Glasgow looking to change their date?

Cheers,

John E.

[Eaton]

Sorry Peter, I could not have helped this weekend, as i caught a bad cold/chest of someone at the Wigan show last weekend and have spent the last six days barking like a dog!

 

Looking back thirty years, model railway shows numbered over 600 annually with many seeing long lines of punters each day and numbers of 4-5000 attendees being reported at many. Today we still have over 300 shows but nowhere near the same number of enthusiasts. In essence the event schedule has halved whereas for whatever reason the audience is vastly less and to only worsen the situation all the associated costs have increased beyond proportion and the punters are expecting a lot more!

 

Surely this is having a greater effect than the weather, royal weddings etc etc, on the UK exhibition circuit.

 

This continued lack of surplus income prevents most events from building up a safety net of cash for the proverbial rainy day, so enforcing the witnessed year on year concerns of' 'will we or won't we break even' and all the associated yet genuine concerns such generates as raised in the pages prior.

The point I was trying to make was that it is not just the effect of the weather that is the problem, it was what to do in the event of bad weather. On the weekend of the show the decision was not to difficult, Wigan was clear, we knew in advance the layouts that could not make it and the weather forecast was encoraging. If it had been this weekend I suspect no layouts would have pulled out and up to Friday evening the weather in Wigan was OK, but the forecast was not good. Steve Roberts would have had to make a decision on Wednesday based upon the forecast to cancel or not. If he had decided to go ahead there would have been no show on the Saturday as no visitors would have been able to get there. My village was cut off and I only live 6 miles away. However layouts and traders would have been on their way on the Friday, some may have made it, some not. The resultant chaos and the financial implications would have serious consequences for the continuation of the Wigan exhibition.

When I say we were lucky that is what I mean. I talked to Steve yesterday morning and we both realise how close we came to a potential catastrophe. It only makes sense that we should look at ways of reducing this risk.

[Penlan]

December is not the only bad month!!!!

 

I recall back in the 3 day week fiasco of the 70's, October having heavy frosts, fog etc., around the west Midlands, I think I was exhibiting somewhere in South Staffs at the time, I just recall I was one of the few who made it from the Worcester area (Malvern), let alone finding some petrol for the journey.

 

I have been caught out a few times with deep frosts in the Midland's since then in October too, when visiting people up there. Anyway if you start changing dates, it could start to mess up some of the long term bookings, I have 3 in 2014 already. Wigan in 2012....

[Penlan]

....... However layouts and traders would have been on their way on the Friday, ...

I would have started on Thursday, or at least hired the van and loaded it, then on up to Malvern to stay the night and pick-up an some of the operating crew, before leaving for Wigan on the Friday morning to ensure we arrive in time to set up etc., on the Friday. At my age (it will 69 in 2012 when Penlan's booked) I'm not out to do heroic deeds anymore, but I would have made the effort to get to Wigan.

 

But, I would wholly accept the Exhibition teams decision to cancel, wherever I was - on the road, loading-up etc., that's part of the risk, which on percentages would be very low considering the number of shows I've attended since the late 60's, none being cancelled. I'm not into blame culture, take it as it comes.

[Long Line]

Fair do's Peter, if the situation has been on a knife edge year in year out? then as you have intimated a strategic one off re-think may well be required.

 

But as many have stated the year is filled with dates/periods that when one starts afresh with a 'blank diary approach' could soon be dismissed as not suitable.

 

Acceptinng that the below depends upon the individuals own levels of risk manegment,

To avoid serious weather risk forget -Jan-mid March/April

The summer holidays are widely accepted as of no use, unless you are in a holiday destination (and regardles of how well the NWRDF spin it Wigan could not be described as one of them!) so removing mid July to mid Sept.

weather constraints could become influencial by mid October and definitaly need consideration after this up to new year.

 

This leaves in my (worst case) estimation for 2011 as an example, 18 weekends in the spring/early summer and 5-7 weekends in the autumn. Take then from these any Bank Holidays and any event regardless of what, equal to or of sufficient market place position so as to require an non conflictory date.

 

Consider then the possibility of other, serious railway modelling events such as St Albans (as an examle) that are currently winter timed following the lead and also moving into these safer periods (and no there not moving this is my suppositional aurgument!) and you very quickly would have an exhibition diary wherein the greater part of the year would be barren of larger financially high risk events, being populated by smaller low key low risk events and having two short periods of larger events struggling not to collide. The numbers of serious shows acceptable during theses compressed periods would then be largely dictated by the avialabilties and numbers of traders and layouts able to go out every or every other weekend.

 

Regardless of all the above i still feel that serious events should make assurances of their continuation, as you have already stated via insurances, but also by having a cash reserve, and if such means that financial conciderstions need be made by exhibitors and attendees alike than so be it, better that than having no serious events in the long term.

 

As an example i am involved with the operation of an Agricultural show in Cheshire, with annual expenditures of around 65K for a one day event we carry a 90K cash reserve to cover a cancelation due to weather/animal infections etc, this reserve covers the loss of all the 'in advance' set up costs of the cancelled show and caters for the bare minimum finnaces to stage a following one. The event has ran since 1885 with only a few years cancelled (wars etc) but the cash reserve was only acrued since the mid nineties after it was realised by the said management of younger minds that the risks in the newer market place were getting out of hand. Such was acheived by first squezing every last penny out of the costs and by then openly telling the public why the gate was going up, their response was in the main... fair enough, as long as it keeps the event going. It is this coarse of action that i fervently recomend to all!

It is a fact that today many other similar events in the UK no longer exist because no such planning was implemented, being cancelled by BSE/foot and mouth/wet ground ect!

 

 

 

As one with a foot on both sides of the fence as an exhibitor/demonstartor/steward and attendee i am ready to do what is required to support the continuation of events that cater for 'actual railway modelling' such as Wigan.

 

Mark-still barking!

 

[Coombe Barton]

OK, let's look at compressing events from the spender's point of view.

 

• I can't have several weekends in succession when I'm not at home. OH wants to do things as well.
• I have a certain amount of monthly disposable income. I need to spread expenditure.
• I travel miles to shows.
• I need some weekends at home as well - i get tired and I have a job that sometimes demands that I don't go off on a jolly
• In the spring and summer I have the constant fight to tame the jungle (i.e. the garden)
• In 2010 Leamington and Warwick exhibition, with the hall in the heart of the country, was held during the worst January for many years. However the snow was cleared and it worked. It's being held at the same weekend this year - and presumably the NAC can offer less expensive rates for halls in the winter than they can in the summer.
• We now have a cold December and in the same year that's very unusual.
• When I come to an exhibition my wallet goes home consideably lighter than when I arrived. Admission, food and traders benefit. If I can't spread myself throughout the year then many will not have the benefit of my spend.