Quiet reflections on traditional country churches

[Captain Kernow]

In making this post, I am not trying to make a religious point or commentary. I spent a pleasant hour in our local church this afternoon, at the ‘Harvest Festival’ service. It was a beautiful autumn afternoon here in Devon and the church (which can admittedly look a bit drab when it’s over cast) was bathed in sunlight and the whole scene looked rather picturesque.

 

Regardless of what one’s personal views on religion today might be, the fact remains that unpretentious country churches like this are a frequent feature in the rural landscape past and present.

 

But how often do we see a church (whether rural or urban) modelled on our layouts? There have been some notable examples, and being in the church this afternoon put me in mind in particular of those wonderful 4mm church interiors modelled by Gerry Hall and John Warner, which were featured in MRJ several years ago.

 

There have been other skilfully scratchbuilt churches too, and there is now an increasing variety for those who don’t want to either scratchbuild or use the venerable Airfix/Dapol kit, including R-T-P buildings and the recent (and excellent) kit from Scalescenes.

 

Anyway, the above ramblings is really just an excuse to post a few images from this afternoon (some of them could have been better, they were taken on my phone!). But if this is not your thing, just ignore the thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Robert]

I agree absolutely. Churches are incredibly photogenic, whatever your views on religion.

 

Here are a few photos of mine:

 

Firstly Boughton Malherbe in Kent. A lovely rural church which also has Tom Baker's gravestone in the church yard (although he is still very much alive!)

 

 

Secondly, Old Romney Church in Kent. Down on the marsh, and with a very rich history.

 

 

Then finally, my Church. Not a rural Church, but in a very nice location in the city centre of Wiesbaden. St Augustine's of Canterbury, Wiesbaden.

 

[Coombe Barton]

Captain

 

Was the west door in the tower once open and now has been built in?

[Coombe Barton]

 

Some of the detail in churches in great. This is the (inside of) the south door of Mullion Church - and in the lowest part a flap. When we first visited there we asked what it was, and one of our party jokingly suggested that it was a cat flap. We were told that we were nearly right - it being a dog door. The sermons were so long, and the drovers brought their dogs with them. When the dogs got bored they could nip out.

 

[Addition] The door is oak - from the now disappeared Goonhilly Forest. The original beams were also from this source, and onme is preserved on a windowsill by the font.

[Brinkly]

I don't really know why. There is a beautiful model built by the late Ron Rising, now in the care of the National Trust at Ormesby Hall, which depicts Corfe Castle Station Circa 1920. Ron included buildings which were personal to him, such as the pond he learnt to swim in or the church that I believe he was christened in. Here is a link to his Church scene and the village which shows the railwayline running through the landscape.

 

I think it is beautiful, the scene with the church is perhaps my favourite!

 

Ormesby Hall Model Railway Group

 

Regards,

 

Nick.

[Bernard Lamb]

Then there is the type that you do see in model form.

Boulton and Paul ran them off to length as required.

Bernard

 

[Bernard Lamb]

Having lowered the tone with my last post let's try to get back on subject. Good pub about 100yds down the road if you do pay a visit.

Hemingford Abbotts, Huntingdon.

Bernard

[PhilJ W]

Then there is the type that you do see in model form.

Boulton and Paul ran them off to length as required.

Bernard

 

I am digging out the Wills 'tin chapel' kit from my stash. The tin church illustrated has its own charm.

[Welchester]

Having lowered the tone with my last post

 

If you like that sort of thing, there's an entire website devoted to tin tabernacles.

[Pinkmouse]

But how often do we see a church (whether rural or urban) modelled on our layouts? There have been some notable examples, and being in the church this afternoon put me in mind in particular of those wonderful 4mm church interiors modelled by Gerry Hall and John Warner, which were featured in MRJ several years ago.

 

Two points come to mind. Firstly, and the most off-putting personally, is the cliche of the layout church with funeral/wedding cameo, frequently with irritating sound effects. Not good. Secondly, the prototype. Churches are centres of power and influence, and village and town communities grow up around them. However, railways come much later, and for various reasons, avoid such centres, usually being built on the very outskirts of communities, so unless you have a layout the scale of say, Pendon, then you'll never have the room to fit them in an an appropriate way.

 

But I have to say, even though I am fairly anti-religiosity, ecclesiastical architecture is wonderful, and more power to your elbow if you do have the space to try to reproduce it properly. But please no bells!

[Tim Chambers]

If you like that sort of thing, there's an entire website devoted to tin tabernacles.

Or, if you can get hold of Railmodel Digest no.4,(still around at exhibition book sellers) there's an excellent article by Tim Shackleton on Tin (and other materials) Tabernacles. Nice pictures Tim, many thanks.

[Kris]

I suspect that we don't see many church's on layouts because they are big objects and when you add in the graveyard they take a a huge amount of space. This is a shame as they are fantastic pieces of architecture.

 

Pink mouse talks about the irritating sound effects and cliched scenes that you tend to find which seems to be true from the images that I have observed, but the sounds could be done subtly, who has put a working clock in the church tower and linked it to a chiming bell on the hour. If you want to imply a funeral how about a hurst parked outside or a couple of men digging a grave.

[Jack]

Two points come to mind. Firstly, and the most off-putting personally, is the cliche of the layout church with funeral/wedding cameo, frequently with irritating sound effects. Not good. Secondly, the prototype. Churches are centres of power and influence, and village and town communities grow up around them. However, railways come much later, and for various reasons, avoid such centres, usually being built on the very outskirts of communities, so unless you have a layout the scale of say, Pendon, then you'll never have the room to fit them in an an appropriate way.

 

Wedding cameos annoy me because that suggests the layout is being run on a Saturday ... but the traffic rarely reflects that! Also, don't forget the big 'meringue' wedding is very much a post Charles and Diana thing, with earlier weddings being more subdued affairs.

 

As for location, there are a sizeable number of churches that were left 'high and dry' by the Black Death and other events, or just natural movement of villages. I have worked in a couple of churches which were well away from urban centres due to the disappearance of villages. It would therefore be not unlikely for a railway to run nearby (in fact one of them as a railway next to it).

There are also a number of Victorian churches close by railway stations which grew up after the railway ... such as Saltash or Penzance. There is a prototype for everything , although such churches can rarely be described as picturesque.

[Pinkmouse]

Very true Jack, there are exceptions to the rule. But do we model the prototypical or atypical? Discuss!

[Colin]

Does anyone have any feelings on the Hornby church kit (now unfortunately superseded by various Skaledale offerings). As built it looks way too small to me, but I seem to remember a very nice kitbash article in which the builder combined 2 (or maybe 3?) kits to create a very imposing and attractive model.

I'd also be interested to know if the Hornby kit has any noticeable regional features (I'd like to incorporate a model of something appropriate for a Hampshire/Dorset location on my garage layout, if I find I have enough space).

 

I agree about the weddings/funerals/dodgy sound effects BTW! I think a "gardening" scene, or just one or two visitors strolling in the churchyard would be infinitely preferable.

[Andy C]

When i first even mooted building New Hey there were cries from loads of people that I should build St Thomas' church on the hill above the station,

 

 

A stunning piece of religeous architecture for such a small village but fortunately / unfortunately* id have to extend the layout about 3 foot out from the bottom end, and a further 3 foot up above baseboard level!

 

* delete as appropriate

[JZ]

Scratchbuilding a church can be quite daunting even for the experienced modeller. I stick with this one and it has appeared on several layouts I have built. And yes, it is the prototype for the Airfix/Dapol model. The church of St.Boniface at Bonchurch near Ventnor, IoW.

And with my surname being Boniface, it makes it an obvious choice.

[DonB]

As well as the "Tin Tabernacles", some non-conformist chapels were built in brick, and, being mostly Victorian or slightly later, were in urban areas , conceivably near railways where the railway and other workers lived.

Although it's in a non-railway rural setting, there's a tiny one at Sutton-on-the-Hill, Derbyshire which is recently defunct and is for sale. I'll photo it next week when I pass by.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... the Hornby church kit .. As built it looks way too small to me,

 

I'd also be interested to know if the Hornby kit has any noticeable regional features .. I'd like to incorporate a model of something appropriate for a Hampshire/Dorset location ...

Genuinely a very small church, as the photo of the protoype demonstrates. Good choice for a model subject if it is to ft on the layout, as even modest parish churches are pretty large if modelled to scale.

 

As far as regionality is concerned, again it was a good choice as presenting a fairly standard appearance, that would fit in over much of England and Wales. It could even pose as a much later build than the real date of the original (the main fabric of which is C12th) constructed in a deliberately archaic style when this was much in vogue in the Grimthorpian era. (Railway connection there: the famed Lord Grimthorpe, rebuilder of St Albans Abbey, designer of the clock that sounds 'Big Ben's' chimes, and much else; was also as Edmund Denison an original proponent of the London to York route followed by the ECML, and chairman of the GNR.)

[Flying Pig]

As well as the "Tin Tabernacles", some non-conformist chapels were built in brick, and, being mostly Victorian or slightly later, were in urban areas , conceivably near railways where the railway and other workers lived.

some many ... as well as in all kinds of building stone, depending on what was commonly used in the area. Some even used both materials: this one at Avebury has always reminded me of the Pendon chapel group.

[Poggy1165]

Norfolk Churches is a site with 852 churches of different kinds illustrated and described. There must be something in there for everyone. Mind you, it should have a health warning, because if you're in the least interested in the subject it's very addictive. I once spent a month in there.

 

I would say that small non-conformist or mission churches are just the thing for the average model railway. They're often quite humble buildings in humble streets in the working-class parts of towns. Of course if you're into modern image most should be modelled converted into carpet warehouses, auction rooms or mosques! Alternatively, why not a model of a modern church? They tend to be quite small and usually don't have graveyards around them.

 

 

[Colin]

Genuinely a very small church, as the photo of the protoype demonstrates. Good choice for a model subject if it is to ft on the layout, as even modest parish churches are pretty large if modelled to scale.

 

 

 

Are you referring to JZ's pic of the prototype of the Airfix/Dapol church by any chance - I was thinking of the self-coloured plastic kit from Hornby's "Town & Country" range (small stone built church with square tower). The kit was quite common up until a year or two ago but seems pretty scarce now. I was wondering if it is based on a prototype, or is it just a generic small village church?

[DavidBelcher]

Two points come to mind. Firstly, and the most off-putting personally, is the cliche of the layout church with funeral/wedding cameo, frequently with irritating sound effects. Not good. Secondly, the prototype. Churches are centres of power and influence, and village and town communities grow up around them. However, railways come much later, and for various reasons, avoid such centres, usually being built on the very outskirts of communities, so unless you have a layout the scale of say, Pendon, then you'll never have the room to fit them in an an appropriate way.

 

The obvious example of a church in close proximity to the railway is St. Peter's in central Leeds, a stone's throw from Marsh Lane viaduct. On a smaller scale, there is a church not a million miles from the main Wolverhampton-Stafford line, possibly at Dunston or Penkridge?

 

If you've bags of space at your disposal, may as well go the whole hog and model London Bridge in N, throwing in Southwark Cathedral [1] for good measure!

 

David

 

[1] There's a thought....other than Southwark and possibly also St. Chad's RC cathedral in Brum (quite close to Snow Hill), any other examples of such structures which have railways within earshot?

[Pinkmouse]

The obvious example of a church in close proximity to the railway is St. Peter's in central Leeds, a stone's throw from Marsh Lane viaduct. On a smaller scale, there is a church not a million miles from the main Wolverhampton-Stafford line, possibly at Dunston or Penkridge?

 

Exactly my point, you can name two churches next to a railway. If you put your mind to it, how many could you name that aren't?

 

If you've bags of space at your disposal, may as well go the whole hog and model London Bridge in N, throwing in Southwark Cathedral [1] for good measure!

 

I'd love to see that model!

[RedgateModels]

Linby Church is very close to the ex-GN Leen Valley line and GC, and is still pretty close to the Robin Hood line

 

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=linby&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=10.520734,27.553711&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Linby,+Nottingham,+United+Kingdom&ll=53.05259,-1.205202&spn=0.002612,0.006727&t=h&z=17

 

island in the centre of the map is roughly where a road over bridge crossed the GN line, church is to the right of it B)