RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 18, 2012 With all the redates on this one, it suggests all was not well. I'd certainly be waiting to see it in the flesh or more particularly hear about people's experiences running it on here before I make the commitment. The Hornby catalogue says '3rd quarter' for the B17s - which I make the months of July, August and September; it also say '1st quarter' for the R4534 SR push-pull set - which has just arrived towards the end of the 2nd quarter. In other words notwithstanding what it says in the catalogue some stuff is running late but as yet this does not include the B17s which in theory have up until the end of September to arrive and still be on sale within the advertised time. Better maybe to click on the Hornby site for advice of when the product is available than to rely in the vagaries of container shipping? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 .... Better maybe to click on the Hornby site for advice of when the product is available than to rely in the vagaries of container shipping? It would be nice to see the B17s in shops by Christmas, anything earlier would be a bonus. The Hornby website is usually quite reliable for imminent arrivals, I agree. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Hello We thought you may like to know that an item you have on order with us, on order id XXXXXXX, has had some information about its release date added or updated. Hornby Model Railways R2920 Class B17/1 Sandringham 4-6-0 2800 'Sandringham' in LNER livery DCC Ready. £87.00 Our latest information from the supplier suggests this item will arrive with us on or after Friday 26th October 2012 Whilst we are hopeful this information is accurate, manufacturer lead times are frequently prone to be delayed. This information is to be used as a guide only. We hope that this email has been useful. Regards Retail Team Hattons Model Railways www.ehattons.com Same for all of the other B17s. I am more and more curious by this consistent delays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUTLER2579 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Same for all of the other B17s. I am more and more curious by this consistent delays. HOWEVER AS THE BEARER OF GOOD NEWS THE O1's are due on Friday 17th August 2012. As per Hattons news just received. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian D Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Same for all of the other B17s. I am more and more curious by this consistent delays. Sorry Mr Martin but "curious" is not the word I'd use. I am absolutely fuming about a further two month delay on these locos which we have been talking about in this thread since October 2010! My word(s) is/are not "curious" but "very angry" quite frankly. What is going on at Hornby? Regards, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted June 29, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 29, 2012 Sorry Mr Martin but "curious" is not the word I'd use. I am absolutely fuming about a further two month delay on these locos which we have been talking about in this thread since October 2010! My word(s) is/are not "curious" but "very angry" quite frankly. What is going on at Hornby? Regards, Brian. Good grief, are you really saying that a model train being delayed gets you angry and fuming? A bit of perspective, please - it's not life or death. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I can only echo Al's sentiment. Is a foot long piece of plastic and alloy really worth paroxysms of rage when you probably have a number of similar items which are capable of providing equal enjoyment whilst your (admittedly considerable) wait for this one continues? It's really a token thing when set against the scale of human suffering and not even out with the shores of these islands. :-) Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I am absolutely fuming about a further two month delay on these locos which we have been talking about in this thread since October 2010! My word(s) is/are not "curious" but "very angry" quite frankly. What is going on at Hornby? Regards, Brian. So in future the man running Hornby decides not to announce a new model until it is almost ready for release. That would be my reaction given your attitude. I am only to pleased that the model was announced when it was as it allows me to plan ahead. I presume what is going on, is that Hornby are trying to resolve some points that are unknown to both you and me, and are attempting to continue what they have been doing recently. That is making every new release better than the previous one. I also presume that you are fully aware of the world economic situation, and are an expert in dealing with manufacturers in China. Cool it man. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles73128 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 So in future the man running Hornby decides not to announce a new model until it is almost ready for release. That would be my reaction given your attitude. I am only to pleased that the model was announced when it was as it allows me to plan ahead. I presume what is going on, is that Hornby are trying to resolve some points that are unknown to both you and me, and are attempting to continue what they have been doing recently. That is making every new release better than the previous one. I also presume that you are fully aware of the world economic situation, and are an expert in dealing with manufacturers in China. Cool it man. Bernard On the other hand (notwithstanding the good points made) in my business I would not have any customers if I quoted totally unrealistic delivery dates. And then delayed the delayed products. Yes, things do go wrong, but 2012 has become a joke, the supply chain is clearly not being managed effectively. I think you will find at the start of the year, Hornby said all 2012 products would be released this year.......... This must be costing Hornby and the retailers lots of lost sales, if a product is available late this year, it wont make up for the lost sales of 6 or 12 months delay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 29, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 29, 2012 I'm becoming increasingly bemused by some of the reactions regarding the release date of the B17. Yes Hornby have rescheduled the release date (probably at least twice I think) and not explained why. But on this year's programme - which they have promised to deliver within the calendar year - it is not yet late (see above). It has until the end of September until it becomes 'late' (assuming it doesn't arrive before then of course - which would make it 'on time'). So why all the fuss? As others have said it is just a model - and folk have had some extra time to save up for it - and there appear to have been production or production scheduling problems but that the critical thing is that it has not been cancelled nor is it 'late'. So what is there to worry about, what is there to cause its arrival date to be regarded as 'late' before it is even due to arrive? I'm sorry but this 'it must be here now or there's a conspiracy' attitude puzzles me - and I used to be regarded as impatient! Why are people seemingly unable to watch manufacturers' websites and have to keep on asking 'where is it?' or 'what is happening with ...?' when manufacturers and commissioners are filling the 'net and magazines with more advance information than they have ever done since model railways were invented? We get, from all manufacturers, news of planned models, some release CAD information, some discuss detail with those who know the prototype either directly or via RMweb, most nowadays release pics of engineering prototypes, and models made available for review usually seem to have arrived by jet plane (and I bet that isn't cheap) so we know from reviews what we will be getting well before it arrives. Yet still people seem to live in a world where none of these sources and none of this information exists and they have to pop up with 'does anybody know what is happening with ...?' when it is plainly obvious that those who do know have either already said or have nothing to say (yet). Is all this an internet 'because it's there and I can?' thing or is it just plain old fashioned impatience (and quite often not even bothering to look before firing off a post or whatever)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles73128 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I'm becoming increasingly bemused by some of the reactions regarding the release date of the B17. Yes Hornby have rescheduled the release date (probably at least twice I think) and not explained why. But on this year's programme - which they have promised to deliver within the calendar year - it is not yet late (see above). It has until the end of September until it becomes 'late' (assuming it doesn't arrive before then of course - which would make it 'on time'). So why all the fuss? As others have said it is just a model - and folk have had some extra time to save up for it - and there appear to have been production or production scheduling problems but that the critical thing is that it has not been cancelled nor is it 'late'. So what is there to worry about, what is there to cause its arrival date to be regarded as 'late' before it is even due to arrive? I'm sorry but this 'it must be here now or there's a conspiracy' attitude puzzles me - and I used to be regarded as impatient! Why are people seemingly unable to watch manufacturers' websites and have to keep on asking 'where is it?' or 'what is happening with ...?' when manufacturers and commissioners are filling the 'net and magazines with more advance information than they have ever done since model railways were invented? We get, from all manufacturers, news of planned models, some release CAD information, some discuss detail with those who know the prototype either directly or via RMweb, most nowadays release pics of engineering prototypes, and models made available for review usually seem to have arrived by jet plane (and I bet that isn't cheap) so we know from reviews what we will be getting well before it arrives. Yet still people seem to live in a world where none of these sources and none of this information exists and they have to pop up with 'does anybody know what is happening with ...?' when it is plainly obvious that those who do know have either already said or have nothing to say (yet). Is all this an internet 'because it's there and I can?' thing or is it just plain old fashioned impatience (and quite often not even bothering to look before firing off a post or whatever)? Erm its not Impatience, and I know all the revised delivery dates. I had 20 odd emails today for the items I require all saying there delayed (again) for between two and five months. EG the class 86 was Q3 2011, its now Q3 2012.Its simple incompetence to not deliver on time. Nothing more or less. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Sorry Mr Martin but "curious" is not the word I'd use. I am absolutely fuming about a further two month delay on these locos which we have been talking about in this thread since October 2010! My word(s) is/are not "curious" but "very angry" quite frankly. What is going on at Hornby? Regards, Brian. Brian, carry on with the 'over the top' approach and you'll be on moderated posts again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 "Yes, things do go wrong, but 2012 has become a joke..." Perhaps, but it's not the end of the world. Yet! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Just received an Email from Hattons suggesting maybe late October.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Just to clarify my "curious" thoughts. I was thinking purely business strategy - and what was it? I wasn't sure but something tugged at the back of the noggin. A sleep, and a think this morning, and it became clearer. It states on the Thompson Suburban thread that they will arrive around October. So perhaps the strategy is now clear. They want to time the B17s to arrive with the Thompson suburbans, and - as with the B1s and the Gresley Suburbans - will put them side by side in adverts, advocating their use with one another. Seems pretty logical and business like to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Never thought of that, Simon. I suppose it could be some kind of co-ordination strategy. Alas, mine will be going behind standards and various CR/NB types! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 30, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 30, 2012 Just to clarify my "curious" thoughts. I was thinking purely business strategy - and what was it? I wasn't sure but something tugged at the back of the noggin. A sleep, and a think this morning, and it became clearer. It states on the Thompson Suburban thread that they will arrive around October. So perhaps the strategy is now clear. They want to time the B17s to arrive with the Thompson suburbans, and - as with the B1s and the Gresley Suburbans - will put them side by side in adverts, advocating their use with one another. Seems pretty logical and business like to me. Indeed so - and of course the catalogue promises them both for the same quarter which might well mean that's exactly what is intended. Judging by the rapid disappearance of the (several months late) SR push-pull set Hornby are clearly able to sell quality model railway product and their annual report seems to indicate that they have come to appreciate that fact. So it seems sensible to assume that their model railway marketing will reflect that when/if manufacturing and shipping schedules facilitate it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 This years catalogue was apparently only containing items that would appear in 2012, seems that may not happen or alternatively are the production runs going to be cut back to enable everything to appear, if not in the quantity that would normally be expected. Interesting to see that Kernow are not offering any discount on the "A" version of the Maunsell push pull. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 30, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 30, 2012 This years catalogue was apparently only containing items that would appear in 2012, seems that may not happen or alternatively are the production runs going to be cut back to enable everything to appear, if not in the quantity that would normally be expected. Interesting to see that Kernow are not offering any discount on the "A" version of the Maunsell push pull. I wonder if Hornby are getting a bit more realistic about the state of the market and adjusting their production to match what they think will sell (and not necessarily getting it right every time?). We have seen the cancellation of a number of items from this year's catalogue - that might be due to lack of orders, or lack of production slots, or feedback from reps and retailers (=insufficient orders?), we don't really know the answer and equally - provided such decisions are good ones for the company's survival - we need hardly care (even if something I had pre-ordered has been cancelled/skidded to 2013). While only partially relating to the B17 it is becoming increasingly clear that Hornby are loading a lot of sales potential, including some 'likely to be sell-outs' and fairly profitable, items towards the back end of the year. If they get the production and delivery bits right that means they will be putting a lot of popular products into the market at a peak buying time with folk spending at shows such as Warley and in the pre-Christmas period - and who wants socks for Christmas when they could opt for an O1, B17, 72XX, 42XX, or some exceedingly nice Thompson coaches etc? Maybe I'm attributing too much marketing nous to them, maybe I'm not, but if that is their plan and it works it will make good reading in the next annual report. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Hornby have made it pretty clear in their last three annual reports that the production schedule is to a least some extent determined by retailer orders. (Any manufacturing business has a choice of operating in the range from total 'push' to total 'pull': given the present financial climate I would imagine there is a general tendency toward the 'pull' model of scheduling to meet retailer orders, perhaps with a percentage uplift on selected products where there is a gut feeling that the retailers are underestimating likely demand.) Overlaid on whatever the planned intentions may be is the general economic turbulence affecting the manufacturing unit (maintaining stable cash flow, shortages of materials, limitations on power draw for example) and the employment practise in China in these light assembly type operations of very large scale workforce turnover annually timed to the Chinese New Year; which is itself a moveable feast analogous to Easter in the Western tradition. I'll bet there are a few occidental grey hairs induced on those who have to work with all this from the UK end. Likewise with retailers, who would definitely prefer a steady flow of items, but are typically experiencing famine and feast through the year. But what's the worry from the customer perspective? Hornby have been consistently introducing delightful new steam era product for the past 5 years: it is good when it does arrive. I will be very surprised if the B17 is any different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D605Eagle Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 I blame them Mayans and thier dodgy calender calcualtions......Thats what it is! You'll see!! I don't want to dissapoint you Mickey, but the Mayan calander didn't take account of leap years, and the end of the world actually happened 4 months ago!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Thought I felt a bit dead of late... Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian D Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 At the risk of being "Moderated", can I can just explain why I feel so strongly. I pre-ordered one of these from Liverpool a couple of months or so ago and have received two emails since pushing the expected availability date back having assumed when I pre-ordered it that all of the delay had been mitigated (Oh, silly me!). In view of my clearly minority view (apart from some kind support from miles73128), I have said all that I'm going to about the late delivery of the B17 by Hornby. Regards, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I blame them Mayans and their dodgy calendar calcualtions.... I don't want to dissapoint you Mickey, but the Mayan calander didn't take account of leap years, and the end of the world actually happened 4 months ago!!! Thought I felt a bit dead of late... It's no (human) sacrifice.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Hello We thought you may like to know that an item you have on order with us, on order id 1359211, has had some information about its release date added or updated. Hornby Model Railways R2922 Class B17/6 Sandringham 4-6-0 61650 'Grimsby Town' in BR late crest livery DCC Ready. £87.00 Our latest information from the supplier suggests this item will arrive with us on or after Saturday 27th October 2012 Whilst we are hopeful this information is accurate, manufacturer lead times are frequently prone to be delayed. This information is to be used as a guide only. We hope that this email has been useful. Regards Retail Team Hattons Model Railways www.ehattons.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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