Markeg Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 This looks like the same old story for Hornby. Delays. Will the B17 arrive before Christmas? Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 And the LNER one too... Hello We thought you may like to know that an item you have on order with us, on order id 1359211, has had some information about its release date added or updated. Hornby Model Railways R2920 Class B17/1 Sandringham 4-6-0 2800 'Sandringham' in LNER livery DCC Ready. £87.00 Our latest information from the supplier suggests this item will arrive with us on or after Friday 26th October 2012 Whilst we are hopeful this information is accurate, manufacturer lead times are frequently prone to be delayed. This information is to be used as a guide only. We hope that this email has been useful. Regards Retail Team Hattons Model Railways www.ehattons.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oOld Harry 666 Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 This looks like the same old story for Hornby. Delays. Will the B17 arrive before Christmas? Mark Yes, but we are not sure which Christmas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 It all still fits into my theory that the B17s will be released at the same time as the Thompson coaches, to be fair... Hornby's release date for the B17 hasn't changed much and makes some sense as it's also I believe just before Warley? Perhaps a double bill of B17 and coaching stock for Warley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted August 2, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 2, 2012 It all still fits into my theory that the B17s will be released at the same time as the Thompson coaches, to be fair... Hornby's release date for the B17 hasn't changed much and makes some sense as it's also I believe just before Warley? Perhaps a double bill of B17 and coaching for Warley. Simon, I agree with your theory. I jokingly said - a year or two back - that I'd be retired by the time the new B17 emerged. I was joking. But I have retired. And still no B17. But, as they say, "the best things come to those that wait..." Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 And Hornby's explanation today in MREmag is that the original manufacturing partner for this project failed financially. The tooling proved incompatible with the replacement manufacturing partner's practise, so it had to be retooled completely. That does fit with Hornby showing test shots and then apparently fully finished assemblies in photographs some years ago, presumably from the first tooling. This inevitably prompts the question of why this tooling had to be abandoned? Hornby are still managing to produce models in China from tooling cut decades ago from a variety of European sources. What made this more recently cut tooling incompatible? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 And Hornby's explanation today in MREmag is that the original manufacturing partner for this project failed financially. The tooling proved incompatible with the replacement manufacturing partner's practise, so it had to be retooled completely. That does fit with Hornby showing test shots and then apparently fully finished assemblies in photographs some years ago, presumably from the first tooling. As per MREmag, here. Hornby announced the B17 in 2010 and at that time the project was placed into the hands of one of our new vendors, who had already proved their worth with other new Hornby locomotives. The development initially went well and we had working engineering samples in September, but after this the whole project seemed to slow to an almost unbelievable crawl. Hornby have development engineers in China continuously and a great deal of their time was spent working with the vendor’s engineers to overcome the various problems that seemed to crop up. These problems did not revolve around the models as such but more the manufacture. Eventually, by mid-2011 it became apparent that the problem was with the liquidity of the manufacturer and once aware of this fact we removed the tooling immediately. Once removed, we then made plans to place them with a manufacturer with whom we had worked for many years. Of course when this happens you discover that each manufacturer works differently from the last and that the whole manufacturing development has to start from scratch. We have received several running and decoration samples recently and are extremely pleased with the results, with an expectation of deliveries commencing in October, however, before I confirm this, I really want to see them being loaded onto a boat with the boxes marked “Hornby”!! Kindest regards Simon This inevitably prompts the question of why this tooling had to be abandoned? Hornby are still managing to produce models in China from tooling cut decades ago from a variety of European sources. What made this more recently cut tooling incompatible? Most of the older toolings look to have been modified in the bodyshell only to take new chassis toolings. All of the Railroad models are old bodies on new or existing chassis (see the Railroad A4 as a prime example). Hornby took the unusual step last year of tooling up a whole new Gresley A1 model for their Railroad range, a step not previously seen. I am wondering why this could not have been aired before. I am certain most modellers would agree that it's not a problem to wait a little while longer whilst the model is re-tooled (this things happen). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted August 20, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 20, 2012 Yes this frankness from SK is something many of us have been wanting for a long time, lets hope he is as frank when questioned about other issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 20, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 20, 2012 I might be going daft (quiet at the back please ) but surely Hornby were saying something about a problem with the B17 manufacturer a year or so ago. That in fact seems to tie in with what SK is saying now as that would have been at about the time the tooling had to be taken to someone else. All that is being partially explained now is why that tooling wasn't suitable when it got to the second manufacturer. What I do find more interesting in his statement is the use of the word 'vendor' - does this imply certain things regarding ownership of the tooling? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed-farms Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Perhaps the problem is something as simple as incompatibility of the machine and the tool. Where I work we have 2 different makes of Plastic thermoforming machines with tools designed to fit one or the other, never both. Presumably the same situation might apply here - if the original manufacturer had 1 type of machine the tool for that might not fit the replacement suppiers. Either way, this model will be good when released. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 ...What I do find more interesting in his statement is the use of the word 'vendor' - does this imply certain things regarding ownership of the tooling? It is not implicit in that alone, but the full statement makes it clear that the tooling was Hornby's. The manufacturing partners are service vendors to Hornby, principally for the tooling and manufacturing elements of the project. Something to be very careful over in this environment is not to find one's property impounded and inaccessible on the premises of a service vendor that has in some way failed. Then some sort of legal process is inevitable to recover assets, and dependent on the applicable legislation this can be 'troublesome'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom F Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Some bad news I'm afraid. The B17s have been pushed back again to Wednesday 12th December. O1 has also been pushed back to Monday 3rd December. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Latest date from Hattons is Monday 3rd December 2012. (DCC fitted LNER green "Sandringham", R2920X). It has been so delayed I had forgotten having ordered it! At least these regular continued delay advice notes stop me from ordering it a second time by mistake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Supply chain issues fixed? I am beginning to wonder if the B17 will ever see the light of day... I hope the O1 doesn't suffer a similar purgatorial fate...! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Anything about the Thompsons in that message? Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian D Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Just to confirm today's other posts, I received the following from Liverpool. "We thought you may like to know that an item you have asked us to notify when it arrives into stock, has had some information about its release date added or updated. Hornby Model Railways R2921 Class B17/2 Sandringham 4-6-0 61637 'Thorpe Hall' in BR early crest DCC Ready. £87.00 Our latest information from the supplier suggests this item will arrive with us on or after Wednesday 12th December 2012” Having read the "Hornby Profits Warning" thread in its entirety earlier today I'm beginning to think the Hornby B17 is a figment of my imagination! Regards, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Anything about the Thompsons in that message? Dave. Haven't had a pre-order notification yet, so perhaps not on the coaches yet Dave...fingers crossed eh?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Hornby Model Railways R2921 Class B17/2 Sandringham 4-6-0 61637 'Thorpe Hall' in BR early crest DCC Ready. £87.00 Having read the "Hornby Profits Warning" thread in its entirety earlier today I'm beginning to think the Hornby B17 is a figment of my imagination! Regards, Brian. Having read the Hornby profits warning thread and being rather puzzled at times by their choice of model I have just noticed which name they have chosen for the first B17/2. Is that the first name that comes to mind when presented with a list of the buildings after which these machines are named? I must be out of touch with reality. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilwell Park Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Having read the Hornby profits warning thread and being rather puzzled at times by their choice of model I have just noticed which name they have chosen for the first B17/2. Is that the first name that comes to mind when presented with a list of the buildings after which these machines are named? I must be out of touch with reality. Bernard Hi. The obvious name for a B17/2 is "Tottenham Hotspur " ( the only B17/2 with a football name ). Following that Gilwell Park. Thorpe Hall is actually named after my first school, in Hale End Rd, Walthamstow. Roger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Hi. The obvious name for a B17/2 is "Tottenham Hotspur " ( the only B17/2 with a football name ). Following that Gilwell Park. Thorpe Hall is actually named after my first school, in Hale End Rd, Walthamstow. Roger I would have gone for Alnwick Castle. Harry Potter connections and all that. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Supply chain issues fixed? I am beginning to wonder if the B17 will ever see the light of day... I hope the O1 doesn't suffer a similar purgatorial fate...! I received a message today from Hattons saying that they hoped that the O1 might arrive on or after 5 November... that's 2012. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekEm8 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I received a message today from Hattons saying that they hoped that the O1 might arrive on or after 5 November... that's 2012. Rob Rob, Suitably ambiguous Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markeg Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I recieved such messages as above, so might be here for Christmas. Which year I don't know, but at least they are keeping us informed. I can only hope they arrive this time. Mark in OZ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I wouldnt be suprised if Hornby got cold feet over the B17, not convinced it will be a big seller. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Only Hornby know what the retailer order book looks like. Once they have manufacturing capability for this model it will be that which determines commitment to a manufacturing run. Which of course has to start pretty much any day now for an 'arrives in December' availability for sale. In their shoes, if they aren't to much under the cosh with whatever else is needing doing at the office right now, a release of some pictures showing this model in production might be a good PR exercise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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