Ballast

[GWR Man]

Hi I have always used Peco ballast,but it seems hard to get over here is Australia .However there is no trouble getting Woodland Scenics Ballast.However this I am told is not real stone. Has anybody used this and what are their comments on this,does it need a special glue instead of the usual PVA method and is it easy to lay? .Any help would be greatly appreciated .Many Thanks GWRMAN

[Kris]

When I have used Woodland scenics ballast I have always used PVA with no problems. I have a feeling that woodland scenics ballast is some type of ground up nut shell. Currently I use sand from my local beach. I have had to sieve this to remove the stone that is to big, dependant on the scale that you model in you might need to sieve out the smaller stuff.

[Jenny Emily]

If you use beach sand, it'll need washing first as it will contain a lot of salt and organic material.

 

I use Javis ballast. It appears to be granite, ground down into small chippings. It absorbs dilute PVA really well. I also recycle it off old layouts by drying it out after being scraped up then grinding it. It looks much the same after regluing as fresh ballast. It's heavy though, so unless some-one imports it into Australia for resale, the postage will be extortionate.

[Modernist]

Aquarium sand was suggested to me recently for 2mm/n gauge. Anyone tried that?

[HLT 0109]

However there is no trouble getting Woodland Scenics Ballast.However this I am told is not real stone. Has anybody used this and what are their comments on this

 

I now use Woodland Scenics ballast exclusively. I tried it initially for two reasons - firstly, I read that the granite chippings are ruinous to the mechanics of a loco should it get inside; secondly, it is available in different shades and can easily be mixed to produce others. I have stuck it down by the traditional method using diluted PVA and not found any problems. It is possibly lighter than granite chippings making it more easily disturbed during the glueing process so perhaps needs more care in that respect.

 

Harold

[Coombe Barton]

For the purposes of analysis I've often had to treat quarry, beach and river sand and gravel for mineralogical purposes. It's just occurred to me that what I've been doing for this is the same process that would be required for ballast.

 

1. Pan it. Take a shallow pan (nick the frying pan when she's out) and pan it as in gold panning. You float off the lighter material, which is much of the organic stuff. If you're reasonably skilled in panning you can grade the material to density, which will usually separate colours reasonably (see point 6) so that some of the following processes will be easier.
2. Acid it. Make it reasoinably dry by sticking in a warm place (airing cupboard or oven when she's out) and then chuck on some acid. Dilute hydrocloric is best but cheap white vinegar will do. Leave to soak. Then wash and dry. Hydrochloric will probably have done its job getting rid of the calcite or aragonite from shells but you'll have to repeat if using vinegar. An indication you've got rid of shell fragments is when it stops fizzing when you put on acid. DO THIS IN A GLASS CONTAINER. A jam jar will do.
3. Wash it. Lots. You need to get rid of the acid residue.
4. Dry it: Oven again. Don't use absorbant paper - some of the fibres will go into the mineral and you'll have reversed step 1.
5. Sieve it. I'm lucky to have had mineralogical graded seives, but the flour sifter/tea strainer approach will probably be the best available. (if you use the kitchen ones, when she's out)
6. Inspect it: Use a lens. See what you have. If you're lucky it'll all be the same colour. If not you're down to hand picking, throwing it away and starting again or finding another source. In mineralogy you're down to counting and identifying grains under a microscope, but that's a bit of overkill for ballast.

What you're left with is a reasonably inert material you can glue down and colour using your favoutite methods.

 

And of course you'll use all the correct safety procedures, won't you?

 

[ADDED] If your source is limestone then step 2 will get rid of it all, so omit that step. Skye white limestone is finely ground and marketed as a kaolin substitute, and if you could find a source may be a good ballast. Not a good idea to acid it - lots of froth and nowt residue left.

[GWR Man]

Thanks for all the suggestions ,think I will try the Woodland Scenic stuff, see how it goes. Thanks Coombe Martin but we have only sandstone rocks around here and we live miles from any beaches so will have to give that method a miss .Again many thanks for the help regards GWRMan

 

 

[Kris]

I can't remember if I washed it. I did sieve it through the smallest mesh that I could find. As far as acid, er nope nothing like that. To get consistency of colour, I have painted the ballast. Some of the ballast has been down for a good couple of years with out any issues so far.

[Chris Nevard]

A tea strainer if grading your own is just about right for HO/OO. What ever you use, as long as it's glued down properly you'll have no problems with it getting into mechanisms. If in doubt, grade finer/smaller - it will generally look better that going the other way. Woodland Scenics N gauge is pretty good too. Beware that the colour will change (richer) quite a bit after being soaked in glue - even when set.

 

Beach sand after a few diluted enamel washes, this isn't the ony way though:

http://www.nevardmedia5.fotopic.net/p67797472.html

http://www.nevardmedia5.fotopic.net/p67851529.html

http://www.nevardmedia5.fotopic.net/p56129566.html

 

The real thing is quite fine too:

http://nevardmedia.fotopic.net/p56553921.html

http://nevardmedia.fotopic.net/p67041355.html

[Campaman]

Another sand user here, I have four different types, Chinchilla sand from a pet shop that I was given, a couple of handfulls from Bournemouth and Cromer beaches, and some grey sand from Thetford Forest.

 

I mix these all together, then use the tea strainer, this gives me a variety of colours that I then treat with washes of acylic colour once laid.

[Minster]

I have used Woodland ballast on my present layout, I used the fine ballast for my 00 gauge layout and glued it down with diluted PVA. I found it needed a couple of applications of glue to get a good bond.

Colour wise I painted it with thinned Woodland scenic paints to get a weathered look on the track bed area.

Hi I have always used Peco ballast,but it seems hard to get over here is Australia .However there is no trouble getting Woodland Scenics Ballast.However this I am told is not real stone. Has anybody used this and what are their comments on this,does it need a special glue instead of the usual PVA method and is it easy to lay? .Any help would be greatly appreciated .Many Thanks GWRMAN

[GWR Man]

Thanks Guys will try the Sand method and see how it goes,I was very impressed by your pictures Chris regards GWR Man

[Captain Kernow]

Beach sand after a few diluted enamel washes

The photo of the track under the Jinty on Combwich is one of the most realistic model railway ballast/track colourings I have ever seen.

[jamie92208]

I tried various commercial ones including Slater's for limestone but the best source was found by chance. I went to a quarry on the line I model to ask for info about Private Ow2ner wagons they used to own. They didn't have any in fo but I asked if they had any limestone dust and they pointed to an enourmous pile and said how many thousand tons do you want. I came away with about half a hundredweight in a bag which a friend seived and that;s provided all the ballast I need since then and the bigger stuff has become loads for lime wagons. It's all stuck down with PVA and I've even been able to scrape it off, wash it seive it and use it again.

 

Jamie

[R.Langley]

I think it depends what prototype you're modelling on, region, era etc. The best way to determine what you need for your layout is to check the prototype, whether that be pictures, or going to your local line. Then matching the colours to ballasts available. Or of course use the sand method, as so beautifully illustrated by Mr Nevard. For my layout I think I'll be using a mix of different types to achieve the varied, and diverse nature of the permanent way.

Though what do I know?

[PWSlack]

What sort of railway, at what sort of period and what sort of scale?

 

For example, if one is modelling the North Norfolk Railway's Holt extension in EM, one might use beach sand to represent the crushed beach used on it. Such an arrangement just wouldn't do for a Gauge 1 model of the Mid Suffolk Light Railway, even if both were in East Anglia...

[Pete the Elaner]

Everyone on this thread seems to use PVA. I used to until I tried Copydex but found that his has many advantages:

 

PVA can change the colour of some ballast, giving it an unnatural looking green hue. Copydex does not do this.

PVA is a resin. It dries brittle & rock hard so can often chip & crumble off. It completely reverses the sound deadening effect of cork.

Copydex dries rubbery so it has a little give. This allows it to be quieter than a resin-based adhesive & it flexes instead of chipping off.

Copydex can also be peeled off when necessary yet is storng enough to not be removed by accident.

Copydex dries far more quickly

 

Give it a go on a small section of test track. I doubt you will ever fix ballast with diluted PVA again.

 

Some modellers swear by Johnson's Klear. I can't comment on this because I've never tried it.

[R.Langley]

Everyone on this thread seems to use PVA. I used to until I tried Copydex but found that his has many advantages:

 

PVA can change the colour of some ballast, giving it an unnatural looking green hue. Copydex does not do this.

PVA is a resin. It dries brittle & rock hard so can often chip & crumble off. It completely reverses the sound deadening effect of cork.

Copydex dries rubbery so it has a little give. This allows it to be quieter than a resin-based adhesive & it flexes instead of chipping off.

Copydex can also be peeled off when necessary yet is storng enough to not be removed by accident.

Copydex dries far more quickly

 

Give it a go on a small section of test track. I doubt you will ever fix ballast with diluted PVA again.

 

Some modellers swear by Johnson's Klear. I can't comment on this because I've never tried it.

Do you dilute the Copydex at all? Or do you use it straight from the bottle/pot?

[bike2steam]

I use granite ballast fixed with thinned varnish. On my old Bembridge layout I used sand (also fixed with varnish) from Bembridge beach, just a hundred yards or so from where the real ballast was dredged from the entrance to St. Helens harbour for use on the Isle Of Wight railways in pre-war days.

[Pete the Elaner]

Do you dilute the Copydex at all? Or do you use it straight from the bottle/pot?

Yes, I thin it with a little w/up liquid to reduce surface tension.

I first spray the ballast with water also treated with some w/up liquid.

 

In other words just sustitute PVA for Copydex. I usually give it a second soaking after it has gone off.

I strongly recommend trying it out on a short section of test track before 'going live'.

[Chris Nevard]

Diluted Copydex is great, especially around baseboard joins where the rubberyness is useful. Used some back in the early 1980's on Combwich and 25-30 years on it has darkened the ballast a tad (unlike the PVA areas) making it take on a slight brown hue - not such an issue though because it looks quite natural.

[R.Langley]

Lovely. Would Copydex also be a good adhesive to glue my track down with?

 

Thanks

 

Richard

[Mattmaz]

Hi,

 

I personally use Carrs ballast, which is made from crushed fruit stones. They are available in a range of colours, and fix in place with the usual PVA/water mix method.

 

Regards,

 

Matt

[Modernist]

Rather than creating another thread, can I ask here if play sand is any good for n gauge ballast, or is it too fine? I intend getting some aquarium sand to use, but just remembered we have loads of play sand. Sure my daughter wouldn't mind me nicking a bit!

 

cheers

Darren

[Southernman46]

Don't forget ballast on modernish image layouts can always be left fairly bright - it takes a very long time in the wild to weather to a dull brown especially in these days of disc brakes and even then normally only in station areas or where it gets a lot of organic contamination by leaves etc. Real ballast (12mm = 1ft) can be pink, green, grey or even yellow tinged depending on the rock type.

 

Granite is always nice - I have some lovely bits of quartz (white & rose) collected whilst out on trackwalks.