Kadee Couplers

[Butler Henderson]

I have all but finished the Kadee conversions: there are just a few locos left to do.

 

The underside of two of them are shown below.

 

kadee_14.jpg

 

The loco on the left is a Bachmann Class 24. It has a long coupling screwed onto the bogie. The screw is too far back to do the usual trick of drilling a hole in an No. 19 coupling - I don't have a No. 20 to hand to try but guess even that isn't long enough. I wonder if anyone else has encountered this coupling/mount length and if so, what did they do to fit Kadees?

 

Similarly, the loco on the right is a Bachmann Class 37. I'm convinced that the coupling is an NEM based design but I can't see the rear of the coupling pocket to confirm. Would I be right in thinking that I have to remove the loco body to get to the coupling box?

The 37 is a NEM coupling. As for the 24 remember you are dealing with plastic parts; it should be possible to use part of the tension lock coupling along with the Kadee and possibly some plastic card to make up a suitable fitment - just make sure the joins are Plastic Weld-ed together and leave them to a day or two to make certain tehe joints are well welded together.

[Ray H]

The 37 is a NEM coupling. As for the 24 remember you are dealing with plastic parts; it should be possible to use part of the tension lock coupling along with the Kadee and possibly some plastic card to make up a suitable fitment - just make sure the joins are Plastic Weld-ed together and leave them to a day or two to make certain tehe joints are well welded together.

Thanks for the info.

 

I thought as much, but can you confirm whether the body needs to come off? I can't see the tails of the tension lock coupling from below so can but assume that removing the body is the only way to get to them.

 

I've tried super glue, epoxy and Plastic Weld on a number of different couplings and find that each is suitable for some but not for others. Maybe I'm not leaving them long enough to cure. I'll have a go at cobbling something together and see how I get on with the class 24.

[Butler Henderson]

Normally find tension locks NEMSs come off with a good tug

[br-nse-fan]

Hi All

 

I've been using Kadee's for a couple years now, and have had some pretty good success with most of the models that I own, with the exception of a couple... and was hoping someone could give some pointers on how to tackle these:

 

1 - Bachmann Class 40 - one of the older ones, NEM pocket set too high.  Comes with a cranked coupler, but obviously, the Kadee sits too high. The pocket appears to be molded into the chassis frame.

 

2 - Bachmann Class 45 - same as above. The Kadee sit's too high.

 

3 - ViTrains Class 47 - non-standard NEM mounting, no way to attach the swallow tail.  I know there have been some who have glued a butchered Kadee into the socket, but I was hoping someone has come up with a more 'civilized' method.

[Suzie]

The Vitrains is a standard NEM mounting - just not the one that is useful! That said the solution I used was to cut off the tension lock and use the tail glued to a N^o19.

[Butler Henderson]

Saw somewhere some time back a Kadee fitted Vi Trains loco which had been so done by cutting/filing the plastic shank of the Kadee to fit the NEM mount used by Vi Trains.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Butler Henderson

[ejstubbs]

One thing I've noticed about the Kadee whisker and NEM couplers is the lack of consistency in the size increments.  In the whisker couplers, the difference between "short" and "medium" couplers is 1/32", but from "medium" to "long" it's 7/64" - more then three times as much, and equivalent to more than 8" in the prototype.  I discovered this the other day when the "medium" was just too short for one of my wagons, but the "long" looks almost as bad as a TLC in terms of spacing

 

With the NEM couplings, the difference in length ranges from 1.07mm to 1.98mm, again not particularly uniform, and could lead to some ugly-looking long gaps in a rake.

[roundhouse]

If I require a kadee NEM in between the sizes I will often take a shorter one cut the fixing lugs off the end and glue the coupler in with Canopy glue to the required distance and prop it at the correct height whilst it sets. If it eve needs replacing then the canopy glue can be removed easier than superglue

[br-nse-fan]

From my own experience in trying out the different sizes of Kadees in locos including the 37 I determined that the #20 coupler is the best coupler to use unless you have really generous curved sections on the layout to prevent buffer locking.

 

I would suggest having a few spares if each size for testing. I've found that the No 18 fits most of my stock, bringing the inside face of the knuckle in line with the flat of the buffer face. However, as stated above, if using set track points and/or small radius curves, you'll need to experiment with what works best for you.

 

I've actually built my layout with kadee couplers in mind, and as such don't have anything tighter than a 22" radius on the main line, and 18" in sidings.

[Removed a/c]

I have a Bachmann 20 which pulls my nuclear flask train on 18" curves and it does not like my Kadee 18s.........buffer lock every time. I have switched to a 19 and it fixed it. 

Edited April 20, 2016 by thebritfarmer

[BR60103]

I have a Hornby Devon Belle set and I had to go up one size on the back of the tender because of buffer locking between tender and Pullman on a downhill 36" radius curve.

I also noticed that the Pullmans seem to differ from one end to the other: turning a coach around meant that one end no longer coupled with its companion.

[roundhouse]

On my Bulleid light pacifics IIRC, I use no 19's on the rear and no. 18s on the front.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...I also noticed that the Pullmans seem to differ from one end to the other: turning a coach around meant that one end no longer coupled with its companion.

Could be systematic - slight assymetry in the positioning of the coupler mechanisms relative to the ends of the vehicle for example -  or just the stack up of dimensional variation in the many parts that make up the assembly of both the coupler mechanism and the vehicle end.

 

I have noticed this same effect on  a couple of Bachmann mk1 coaches, and casually put it down to variation stack up, rather than go and investigate further.

[brian777999]

I was going to fit 3 link couplers to all my Triang Clerestory roof coaches now that I have modified the buffer height by altering the bogies and fitting metal wheels. But that still leaves the problem of buffer lock so today I have been experimenting  with Kadees : I can get the #20 coupler to sit at the correct height and the correct distance (rear of the knuckle space in line with the ends of the buffers). Now I just have to work out a way to fix the couplers to the bogies. There is not enough room under the axle for an NEM box so that leaves super glue or a self tapping screw...I am not sure of the size yet. Can anybody see any problems with what I am doing here ?

 

Some suitable self tappers in this lot I would think....I cannot find any small self tappers here in Cairns !

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/322064216986?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Edited December 2, 2016 by brian777999

[ejstubbs]

I threw away the original bogies on my Tri-ang clerestories and fitted Bachmann LMS bogies in their place.  Fitting Kadees to the Bachmann bogies did require a bit of butchery to the front member of the bogie.  I used #148 whisker couplers in the narrow #262 gear boxes.  I'm not a fan of using the NEM couplers other than in stock which is already fitted with NEM pockets at the correct height; it seems simpler to fit a Kadee gear box, especially since the different coupler styles (underset, overset and centreset) allow a bit of variation in the Kadee gear box height, whereas the NEM pocket has to be pretty much spot on.

 

I'll try to post some pictures later.

[kevinlms]

I was going to fit 3 link couplers to all my Triang Clerestory roof coaches now that I have modified the buffer height by altering the bogies and fitting metal wheels. But that still leaves the problem of buffer lock so today I have been experimenting with Kadees : I can get the #20 coupler to sit at the correct height and the correct distance (rear of the knuckle space in line with the ends of the buffers). Now I just have to work out a way to fix the couplers to the bogies. There is not enough room under the axle for an NEM box so that leaves super glue or a self tapping screw...I am not sure of the size yet. Can anybody see any problems with what I am doing here ?

 

Some suitable self tappers in this lot I would think....I cannot find any small self tappers here in Cairns !

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/322064216986?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Jaycar are apparently in Cairns. They should have them.

[brian777999]

ejstubbs : I was going to use the Bachmann bogies but they come with 14mm wheels and I wanted to get the buffers as low as possible. I am using 12mm wheels on the Triang bogies and after my modifications to the bogies the buffers are at the correct height. But I guess it does not matter now that I am not going to use the 3 link couplers !

 

kevinlms : Thank you, I did not think of Jaycar. Their smallest self tapper I can find listed is no.4 X 6mm which is 2.77mm diameter. I may need something smaller : I will call them tomorrow. Otherwise it will be a long wait for the slow boat from China !

Edited December 2, 2016 by brian777999

[Butler Henderson]

The bogies are plastic, the NEM shank is plastic - how would you normally join plastic parts together?. A suitably strong liquid poly and for added strength drill a small hole and use a pin as a strengthening support.

[brian777999]

I have tried using poly cement before on these old Triang bogies and it does not work at all. I do not know what the bogies are made of but the Revell Contacta glue I usually use for plastic models just sits on top of the Triang plastic and forms a skin...totally useless. I have used Selleys super glue with these bogies and that works very well. I think at this stage it is better to try using self tapping screws in case some small adjustments have to be made later. Once I get one coach fitted out then I may use super glue on the others.

[Il Grifone]

Tri-ang bogies are very resistant to all forms of adhesive - I have never been able to repair one properly yet - so I would go with a screw. Kadee suggest a 2-56 screw which being American is presumably easily obtainable in the States, but harder to find over here (Kadee stockists should have them). I tend to use 8 B.A. or 2mm metric, as I prefer a screw and nut rather than a self tapper, though a suitable thread can be tapped in the plastic. 

 

I would always use the proper Kadee box rather than fiddle with NEM pockets unless already fitted to the vehicle and preferably mounted on the body rather than  bogies though this depends on the minimum radius to traverse.

 

GWR clerestory carriages had 2 foot long buffers, so there is 16mm between headstocks to play with. One can always copy the prototype or Hornby Dublo/Trix and retract the buffers or fit short ones. It depends which one thinks looks worse, short buffers or an excessive inter-vehicle gap - one of those compromises necessary when modelling in a limited space.

[Dunsignalling]

It might be more work than you want to do, but have you considered fitting NEM Kadees via Close Coupling Units?  You then only need make a slot in the end of the bogie to clear it and your buffers can touch on the straights. 

 

Suitable units for fitting to coaches without them are made by Keen Systems,  Symoba and Gutzold, though I'm not sure if the last is still around.

 

Keen units sometimes need part of the floor cut away so as to mount them high enough to clear the top of the bogies but it's not really difficult.

 

www.keen-systems.com has a selection of how-to installation guides (though not one specifically for Tri-ang clerestories) that will give a good idea of what might be involved.

 

John

Edited December 2, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[ejstubbs]

I have tried using poly cement before on these old Triang bogies and it does not work at all.

 

I found that the Bachmann NEM pockets I have don't 'take' poly cement either, including dichloromethane.

 

I'd suggest Canopy Glue - this seems to stick most solvent-resistant plastics quite well.  One advantage - especially when you're experimenting to find the right component setup - is that it not super-strong, so it's relatively easy to break a bond, and the glue residue is easy to scrape off carefully with a scalpel or pick off with tweezers.  Notwithstanding this, my experience is that it is plenty strong enough for mounting couplings.

 

Kadee suggest a 2-56 screw which being American is presumably easily obtainable in the States, but harder to find over here

 

You can get 2-56 cap head screws (and the necessary tiny hex key required) from modelfixings.co.uk.  They also do small sizes in self-tapping screws, which I think someone else was looking for.

 

(Just realised that I've already mentioned modelfixings.co.uk previously on this thread.  No connection, just a satisfied customer.)

Edited December 2, 2016 by ejstubbs

[bgman]

Whilst skipping through YouTube some while back I found this upload which may be of interest, I know there are a great many others but this may help someone.

 

https://youtu.be/yYf0miLKRlk

[kevinlms]

ejstubbs : I was going to use the Bachmann bogies but they come with 14mm wheels and I wanted to get the buffers as low as possible. I am using 12mm wheels on the Triang bogies and after my modifications to the bogies the buffers are at the correct height. But I guess it does not matter now that I am not going to use the 3 link couplers !

 

kevinlms : Thank you, I did not think of Jaycar. Their smallest self tapper I can find listed is no.4 X 6mm which is 2.77mm diameter. I may need something smaller : I will call them tomorrow. Otherwise it will be a long wait for the slow boat from China !

I hadn't checked exactly what was in their range. Perhaps 3mm screws & nuts may be suitable?

[kevinlms]

I found that the Bachmann NEM pockets I have don't 'take' poly cement either, including dichloromethane.

 

I'd suggest Canopy Glue - this seems to stick most solvent-resistant plastics quite well.  One advantage - especially when you're experimenting to find the right component setup - is that it not super-strong, so it's relatively easy to break a bond, and the glue residue is easy to scrape off carefully with a scalpel or pick off with tweezers.  Notwithstanding this, my experience is that it is plenty strong enough for mounting couplings.

 

 

You can get 2-56 cap head screws (and the necessary tiny hex key required) from modelfixings.co.uk.  They also do small sizes in self-tapping screws, which I think someone else was looking for.

 

(Just realised that I've already mentioned modelfixings.co.uk previously on this thread.  No connection, just a satisfied customer.)

Some Kadee couplers come with nylon 2-56 screws. I have found that if you drill & tap the holes for 8BA, then the 2-56's will fit fine. It shouldn't work, but it does. Probably because there is enough give on the nylon.