RMweb Gold Patrick Posted November 19, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2009 Gutted that Ireland aren't going to South Africa. I feel physically sick, to be honest... a mixture of cheating and inexplicable decision-making (Henry and Gallas offside and the already world-famous handball incident) have done us out of a place in the finals! :icon_frustrated: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 Gutted that Ireland aren't going to South Africa. I feel physically sick, to be honest... a mixture of cheating and inexplicable decision-making (Henry and Gallas offside and the already world-famous handball incident) have done us out of a place in the finals! :icon_frustrated: I must confess, my blood boiled somewhat today watching sky news and seeing the incidents play back - looking at the position of the referee and linesmen, I know I what I would have given if I'd been refereeing that match... A right shame, and heartbreaking, I can imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owentherail Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Plattini is over the moon i hear!! FIFA is run for/by the french by sounds of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highpeak Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 This won't, I realise, make me any friends, but it is worth considering that had Ireland taken their chances better, we wouldn't be discussing the referees, Thierry Henry, how apparently biased FIFA is (Michel Platini is president of UEFA, not FIFA) and so on. It's generally easier to blame others, referees in particular, for our misfortunes than reflect upon our own shortcomings. Were Ireland hard done by? There is a strong case for that, both in the way the play-offs were organised and in respect of a particular event in the match, but they still had control of their own destiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Patrick Posted November 19, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2009 This won't, I realise, make me any friends, but it is worth considering that had Ireland taken their chances better, we wouldn't be discussing the referees, Thierry Henry, how apparently biased FIFA is (Michel Platini is president of UEFA, not FIFA) and so on. It's generally easier to blame others, referees in particular, for our misfortunes than reflect upon our own shortcomings. Were Ireland hard done by? There is a strong case for that, both in the way the play-offs were organised and in respect of a particular event in the match, but they still had control of their own destiny. You could say that, I guess, and it's the age old situation of "should've, would've, could've." However, can you really compare honest efforts with a deceitful one? I thought I'd be feeling better about this today but I'm not; my stomach is still in knots. A huge furore has erupted over the issue, too, including a lot of calls in France for a replay to preserve their team's dignity. Can't see it happening though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 including a lot of calls in France for a replay to preserve their team's dignity. Er no... living in France this is not so... more worried about how the national team will do next year (which knowing the French can vary from crap to brilliant). The painful reality is that the Irish missed out because of the first game in Ireland, not the return match in Paris. Should FIFA insist on replay of the 1966 WC final because of a dodgy decision re. the 5th goal, or Maradona's "hand of god" in the 86 WC? The situation is essentially the same - the result will stand, people will talk from all angles and in the end no-one will remember or even care...dilbert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 19, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2009 The problem is that if it was replayed, that sets a pretty poor precedent for any future game that a team loses because of a poor decision. Then how long will it be until the same is happening in the prem on an average saturday afternoon (or it starts making it down to the lower leagues). Or maybe they start replaying games because of a minor infringement, once it starts theres no telling where it will stop. Given the farce that has been retrospective decisions made in F1 over the last couple of seasons, with race results being changed after the race had finished, I'd hate for that to start happening in Football as well.... At the end of the day with that match, Ireland still conceded 2 other goals over the 2 legs, (and if it had ended up going through to penalties (as it probably would have if that goal hadnt been scored) then did they really have much of a chance against the likes of Henry? (the answer would of course be no...) What that game does show once again is that its about time more technology was used in football to try and eliminate more of these bad decisions. Sadly with that fool Platini in charge of UEFA (and the other fool as FIFA boss) I cant see this happening until they have gone. Maybe if this had gone the other way, and it was an Irish handball that put France out, maybe Platini might be a little more willing to listen.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 That seems to be the public's opinion, reading through comments and polls in La Monde and L'Equipe today. Some French politicians also appear to have mooted the possibility. I'm not saying a replay is the correct course of action, just that the possibility was being discussed. I gauged the public opinion at work and in the local caf?© and bistro. Time to move on - at the ground level even the French will admit that it was unfortunate... but if you want honesty in professional sport then it is also up to the players to have the honesty and courage to make the difference - with so much money involved in the game these days, the chances are nearly zero. Whether at club or national level, there is a lack of integrity when it comes to situations like this - regardless of the sport, it's winning at any cost that counts... pretty much the same attitude exists if your car is damaged when you weren't around and leaves you with the repair bill...dilbert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Patrick Posted November 19, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2009 Er no... living in France this is not so... I'm basing my opinion on comments and polls I've read in La Monde and L'Equipe today. Some French politicians also appear to have mooted the possibility. I'm not saying a replay is the correct course of action, just that the possibility was being discussed. (and if it had ended up going through to penalties (as it probably would have if that goal hadnt been scored) then did they really have much of a chance against the likes of Henry? (the answer would of course be no...) No offence Rich, but that's a load of rubbish. A player's ability is no guarantee they'll convert their chance... just ask Roberto Baggio, David Beckham, Andriy Shevchenko or Cristiano Ronaldo. Many's a giant has been slain in shootouts. I would, however, say you are right in your assumption that had Ireland scored the winner through a handball, then Platini, Blatter and their cronies would be moving a lot faster to make the necessary changes. As it was, they got what they wanted after already rigging the play-offs by unfairly changing the rules after the competition had begun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highpeak Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 What that game does show once again is that its about time more technology was used in football to try and eliminate more of these bad decisions. I think we're a little overconfident in our belief that there is a technological fix for this kind of thing. The smart ball technology that Adidas/Cairos promised would eliminate uncertainty as to whether the ball had passed over the goalline turned out to be lacking when it was actually put to the test, and useful as video can be, it isn't going to be conclusive. Ponder this. We've allowed video replay, and we've given managers the right to challenge a certain number of decisions in a match. In the final minute of a World Cup match, the referee awards a penalty kick. The team against whom the penalty has been awarded protests, and all the video available at the time reveals no infraction, so the 5th official in charge of video review directs the referee to change the restart, probably to a dropped ball. And then the next day, footage that wasn't available at the time reveals this http://gfx.dagbladet.no/pub/artikkel/5/53/538/538729/flo320_1213955673.jpg Now what do you do? 1998 World Cup, Brazil v Norway, referee Esse Baharmast, vilified around the world until that picture showed up and confirmed what he knew he'd seen. It's all about the angle of view, and you can have all the cameras you want, if there isn't one with the right angle, it won't do you much good. The experiment with additional goalline referees is perhaps a better way to go. The decision in the Ireland match was always going to be the AR's to make, unless the CR was in a decidedly unorthodox position, but it takes an outstanding AR to be able to get into the right position to make the decision, and a slice of fortune that his view won't be blocked by the movement of other players. The goalline referee would have the best chance at making the decision in that particular incident. Now, I'll grant you that video does reveal a lot that goes unnoticed, and I would like to see post-match review for things like diving and the Hand of the Cheat. All these incidents are bringing the game into disrepute, and that's what I'd charge the likes of Henry (who certainly has previous) with. Granted, France would still be going to the World Cup, but maybe M. Henry wouldn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calnefoxile Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Ponder this. We've allowed video replay, and we've given managers the right to challenge a certain number of decisions in a match. In the final minute of a World Cup match, the referee awards a penalty kick. The team against whom the penalty has been awarded protests, and all the video available at the time reveals no infraction, so the 5th official in charge of video review directs the referee to change the restart, probably to a dropped ball. And then the next day, footage that wasn't available at the time reveals this http://gfx.dagbladet.no/pub/artikkel/5/53/538/538729/flo320_1213955673.jpg Now what do you do? 1998 World Cup, Brazil v Norway, referee Esse Baharmast, vilified around the world until that picture showed up and confirmed what he knew he'd seen. It's all about the angle of view, and you can have all the cameras you want, if there isn't one with the right angle, it won't do you much good. Unless I'm mistaken, don't the Video Refs in Rugby and the Video Umpires in Cricket use the TV Camera Video for their decision making, and if with all those angles available they are still undecided the benefit of doubt goes to the defending team/batsman??? The experiment with additional goalline referees is perhaps a better way to go. The decision in the Ireland match was always going to be the AR's to make, unless the CR was in a decidedly unorthodox position, but it takes an outstanding AR to be able to get into the right position to make the decision, and a slice of fortune that his view won't be blocked by the movement of other players. The goalline referee would have the best chance at making the decision in that particular incident. I was a bit sceptical about the 5th/6th official at matches, but in this case I believe the goalline Ref would have seen Thierry Henry's, ahem!!, error. I do agree though that FIFA/EUFA have a lot to answer for in seeding the play-offs, this was disgraceful. In my opinion it doesn't matter what country you are you should have equal opportunity of making the World Cup finals, yes we all like to see the best players in the world at these competitions, but we all also like to see the underdogs beat the 'Big' teams. This goes for domestic football as well as World/European football, how many of us where hoping that Bosnia-Hercegovina would beat Portugal. From a purely selfish point of view, I was, because I was thinking "One less big side for England to beat on their glorious march to World Cup glory" and then I woke up realising it was a dream Regards Neal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 FIFA have sent a clear message about a possible replay - the message being, if your team is struggling against a supposedly lesser side, it's fine to cheat to get to the World Cup. Roy Keane, though, is less than sympathetic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BoD Posted November 20, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2009 I think wherever you sympathies lie, however much you dislike the FIFA hierarchy and whatever the faults of the seeding system you have to see the logic behind their reasoning for not offering a replay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I think wherever you sympathies lie, however much you dislike the FIFA hierarchy and whatever the faults of the seeding system you have to see the logic behind their reasoning for not offering a replay. Exactly right - France are through, so why risk that with a replay? I'm being cynical, of course. I am in no way suggesting that FIFA have fixed the result, but after that 11th-hour decision to seed the playoffs, it was obvious that, to them, the "right" teams to progress would have been France, Portugal, Russia and Ukraine. Well, Slovenia upset things against Russia, but FIFA are doubtless pleased that at least three of the chosen ones managed to progress, even if none of them did it convincingly. Ireland, of course, must be kicking themselves (plus any stray frenchman who wanders into their path, natch). After drawing one of the favourites to progress through the playoffs - France are, somehow, 7th in the world, just above Argentina(!) - the Irish could never have expected the French to play so badly over two legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BoD Posted November 20, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2009 Ok then. I'll reword that ........ you have to see the logic behind their stated reasoning for not offering a replay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Ok then. I'll reword that ........ you have to see the logic behind their stated reasoning for not offering a replay. Indeed! There have, of course, been many examples of unfairness and cheating in football in the past. Some gets punished, but most, sadly, does not. In Spain, for instance, diving seems to be applauded as an art, rather than derided as the pathetic behaviour it really is. Mind you, they're pretty keen on stabbing cows and insulting black people, too, so that's maybe not a good example to mention. Earlier in this very competition (the 2010 qualifiers, that is), Ireland had an utterly inexplicable penalty awarded to them in Dublin, which enable them to equalise in Georgia. No-one's asking them to consider replaying that game, of course... I think what has hit a nerve here is not just that a dodgy goal has been allowed (Henry has called his handling of the ball "instinctive", and today has the decency to appear rather embarrassed, which he bloomin' well should!), but that it has so directly led to one team going to the World Cup, and the other not. In the early stages of qualifying, adverse results can be clawed back, but in extra time of the very last match, it's virtually impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNWR lives on Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Football aspect aside, the Irish I would assume stand to lose a large chuck of money from being cheated out of not being at the world cup finals. Would there be a case for the Irish FA to bring in court for compensation that they have been cheated out of this revenue? This said i suppose to be able to win the case they have to be able to prove that they could have won the game, not easily done. Since FIFA decided to seed the play offs to seemingly try and help the big names who had not done well at the group stages this World cup has become sadly lacking, It will be intresting to see if they continue with this format at the next world cup, unless of course the big crowd pulling names are through and there is no need to interfere to guarentee the viewing figures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted November 20, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 20, 2009 The replay was never an option surely? What kind of precedent would that set? A replay every time there was a controversial incident which the officials missed? Sadly, that can't be done. In football, cheats do prosper,and players are ordered to cheat, and would no doubt be in big trouble with the manager if they didn't. Only last week I read a quote from a young player who said he had never dived to get a penalty, but he would do it if it was at a vital point in a big game. "winning is all that matters" is how he was quoted. While that is the attitude, this kind of thing will keep happening. What can be done? Suspend cheats? Oh,I forgot, that happened a few weeks ago, and the result of the inevitable appeal...... I guess this is why my passion for the game has sadly abated over the years.Shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dseagull Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Hailsham Town 1 - Chichester City 3 Riddiford A real game of two halves - Hailsham began brightly and had chances for Goatcher and Alexander before taking the lead when Tom Riddiford headed home a free kick. Chichester, who looked dangerous on the break, had two ruled out for offside before the interval, but seemed to lack cohesion at the back on more than one occasion. It was a scrappy, niggly affair though, and as the second half began in blustery conditions, Chichester started much the brighter, and levelled after poor marking at a corner. The second, five or so minutes later, came in similar circumstances, with men not being picked up from a free kick. Hailsham did have one or two chances to get back into it - Dave Harris had a fine game on the right - but Chichester were certainly making the most of the windy conditions, and added a third just before full time. Also been invited to the next Committee Meeting, with a view to joining - will be a chance to give something back to a game that is so special to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 My beloved Charlton Athletic clawed a point back against Yeovil after a sending off in the 28th minute - straigth red for Sam Sodje, though the murmurings on the football forums suggest it was unwarranted - justice then, his brother Akpo Sodje equalised for the addicks! 6 points behind Leeds who have a game in hand after winning 3-0 today - can anyone in league 1 catch the might of Leeds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dseagull Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Leeds won 3-0. Was always going to be a tough as for a resurgent Brighton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 What a great weekend.... Sunderland beat Arsenal 1-0 and just heard Spurs beat Wigan 9-1......Yes NINE... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocktondarling Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I have a horrible feeling that if Ireland had been England... we would be already at war (I know it is 'only' football) Stockie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 What a great weekend.... Sunderland beat Arsenal 1-0 and just heard Spurs beat Wigan 9-1......Yes NINE... How many??????!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1 Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 That's right. 9 Defoe got 5. Thanks Harry! steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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