Football Focus

[hayfield]

56 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

Absolutely.

It's very healthy and good for sporting ethos to see others challenging, even if the EPL is currently being dominated by a football and wealthy juggernaut in the shape of Man City.

I'm not a Villa or Spurs fan, but I'm a little sad that they couldn't get closer to this season's top 3, even if they've had pretty decent seasons, particularly in Villa's case.

I'm confident that Chelsea will start to get their act together under the new regime and be in the frame next season.

 

 

That's the power and marketability of the EPL.

It's no hype to say that it's the top and toughest league in the world.

 

As you say, success breeds success when it comes to fans and following successful clubs.

Look at Man City, a team that most of the world had never heard of.  An also-ran team bobbing up and down between the league tables, suddenly transformed by huge investment and subsequent on--field success.

From almost zero global presence to challenging Liverpool and Chelsea in the international support rankings, in the space of just over 10 years.

 

.

 

I think there are two things money cannot buy

 

Firstly the best managers in the world, United have done little after Ferguson and don't forget in the early years ferguson was 3 games away from the sack

 

Then after Wenger stayed on longer than he should, they whilst Emery is an excellent top class manager, he struggled with Arsenal probably down to big name players having too much power/influence. Then we have seen Arteta struggle at first, but with the board trusting him and backing his judgement he has built/building one of the best teams in the league

 

Chelsea and Man U in my opinion have chopped and changed far too much their managers recently.  But like Ferguson, Wenger & Klop , Pep and Michal are something a bit special, are we seeing Unai joining them?    

[gwrrob]

Relegate them to to the National League and see how Pep gets on then.

[kevinlms]

18 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

Absolutely.

It's very healthy and good for sporting ethos to see others challenging,

 

 

That's the power and marketability of the EPL.

It's no hype to say that it's the top and toughest league in the world.

 

 

You've only got to look north of the border to confirm how true that is.

 

The Scottish game has right from the start been totally dominated by the 'Old Firm' and between them have won the title 109 times and indeed there have only been 5 occasions, where neither side finished in the top two.

 

When Rangers were relegated due to financial irregularities, Celtic won all the titles in their absence.

 

How much more biased can you get?

 

The PL/Division 1has had a procession of clubs winning promotion and often doing reasonably well for a period. I beleive that Arsenal are the only club, never to have been relegated.

[43110andyb]

17 hours ago, gwrrob said:

Relegate them to to the National League and see how Pep gets on then.

Please don’t!   Not National league north at least 🤔😂

[Hobby]

Innocent until proven guilty, something many football fans appear to have forgotten...

 

19 hours ago, kevinlms said:

. I beleive that Arsenal are the only club, never to have been relegated.

 

Everton? Or is that just from the Prem?

[Ohmisterporter]

IIRC Everton have spent the longest time in total years in the top flight of English football; but they have been relegated and bounced back. Arsenal have never been relegated since they have been in the top flight. 

 

[kevinlms]

6 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

Everton? Or is that just from the Prem?

Football did exist before the Premier League, although many seem to ignore that bit of history!

[Hobby]

3 hours ago, kevinlms said:

Football did exist before the Premier League, although many seem to ignore that bit of history!

 

I never said it didn't. 🙄

[Natalie]

On 16/05/2024 at 10:08, kevinlms said:

I believe that Arsenal are the only club, never to have been relegated.

 

They also were not promoted to Division 1 in the 1930s in a fair manner as they finished in 5th place (I think). Their promotion to the newly expanded Division 1 involved the use of brown envelopes to 'encourage' the other teams in Division 2 to vote for their promotion. 

 

It was considered that with the expansion of Division 1 the teams due to be relegated from there would not be so and the top few teams from Division 2 promoted in the usual manner to make up the numbers.

 

Promotion was based on votes with relegation from Division 1 as per usual. Arsenal got voted for promotion and guess whose place they took in Division 1? That's right it was Tottenham who were relegated to make way. From then on a bitter rivalry has ensued.

 

To be fair to them to not be relegated from the top flight in at least 70+ years is pretty impressive.

 

Disclaimer- I am a life long Spurs fan who is no lover of the team previously from Woolwich but I have tried to reflect the situation of their promotion as objectively as I can.

 

(That lot from down the road in red have been great this season and will be very unlucky if they are not to be crowned champions. They certainly deserve it and Mr Arteta has done a sterling job. Moral is stick with your manager and support him during the sometimes difficult early seasons and let him build his team with backing from the board. Mr Levy please note...)

 

Nat

[kevinlms]

2 hours ago, Natalie said:

 

They also were not promoted to Division 1 in the 1930s in a fair manner as they finished in 5th place (I think). Their promotion to the newly expanded Division 1 involved the use of brown envelopes to 'encourage' the other teams in Division 2 to vote for their promotion. 

 

It was considered that with the expansion of Division 1 the teams due to be relegated from there would not be so and the top few teams from Division 2 promoted in the usual manner to make up the numbers.

 

Promotion was based on votes with relegation from Division 1 as per usual. Arsenal got voted for promotion and guess whose place they took in Division 1? That's right it was Tottenham who were relegated to make way. From then on a bitter rivalry has ensued.

 

To be fair to them to not be relegated from the top flight in at least 70+ years is pretty impressive.

 

Disclaimer- I am a life long Spurs fan who is no lover of the team previously from Woolwich but I have tried to reflect the situation of their promotion as objectively as I can.

 

(That lot from down the road in red have been great this season and will be very unlucky if they are not to be crowned champions. They certainly deserve it and Mr Arteta has done a sterling job. Moral is stick with your manager and support him during the sometimes difficult early seasons and let him build his team with backing from the board. Mr Levy please note...)

 

Nat

Yes, I was aware of the backroom deals to get Arsenal into Division 1.

[hayfield]

What has and still is leaving a nasty taste is the FA's continued faffing about with the alleged 115 counts of financial impropriety.

 

Being a Gooner like most clubs it looks like we keep within the financial constraints, where as these charges have been hanging over city for the past 2 years at least and the FA are letting city get away from it.

 

Look at what they have put both Everton and Forest through, absolute misery for both the clubs and their fans. Allowing City to get away scott free whilst other teams are playing by the financial rules, seemingly giving City an unfair advantage.

 

I have heard the delay is down partly to city not being helpful or forthcoming in answering questions/sending details. Those who are failing to act should be sanctioned, whilst if City are dragging their feet they should be immediately punished, and its not just the likes of Arsenal or Liverpool that are disadvantaged, but think of all those clubs who have finished 5th and missed out on Champions league riches

 

Personally I believe Man City should be treated just as Everton and Forest have been, but for each year they have been delaying the process. On the other hand if City have played by the rules, those responsible for this farce should be sanctioned 

[Phil Bullock]

So the Baggies won’t be boinging back to the Premier League? Thanks goodness for that! Let’s have a season of stability in the Championship and build a squad worthy of promotion…. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

3 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

So the Baggies won’t be boinging back to the Premier League? Thanks goodness for that! Let’s have a season of stability in the Championship and build a squad worthy of promotion…. 

 

I think 10 years of stability might get you promoted if you're lucky, after our season of hell I'm not fussed if we never go back!

 

Mike.

[luckymucklebackit]

[Hobby]

19 hours ago, hayfield said:

What has and still is leaving a nasty taste is the FA's continued faffing about with the alleged 115 counts of financial impropriety.

 

Being a Gooner like most clubs it looks like we keep within the financial constraints, where as these charges have been hanging over city for the past 2 years at least and the FA are letting city get away from it.

 

Look at what they have put both Everton and Forest through, absolute misery for both the clubs and their fans. Allowing City to get away scott free whilst other teams are playing by the financial rules, seemingly giving City an unfair advantage.

 

I have heard the delay is down partly to city not being helpful or forthcoming in answering questions/sending details. Those who are failing to act should be sanctioned, whilst if City are dragging their feet they should be immediately punished, and its not just the likes of Arsenal or Liverpool that are disadvantaged, but think of all those clubs who have finished 5th and missed out on Champions league riches

 

Personally I believe Man City should be treated just as Everton and Forest have been, but for each year they have been delaying the process. On the other hand if City have played by the rules, those responsible for this farce should be sanctioned 

 

I really wish people would stop repeating this "city should be treated like Everton or Forest" rubbish. Both those teams were clearly shown to have breached the guidelines and admitted it and so were punished accordingly. City haven't admitted anything, nor is there anything that can be shown to clearly prove it and so they have contested the charges. Yes its taking a long time, longer than us City fans would like as well, we'd rather it all over and done with if for nothing else to stop the constant sniping. But, like the EPL there will be an army of lawyers making lots of money out of it. As to whether City or EPL are delaying it, who knows, I'd take anything the EPL says with a pinch of salt these days.

 

What's as interesting is that over the past 5 years City are only seventh in the net spend league. Yes they've spent big, like the others, but they've been careful how they've bought and sold, all the charges relate to before this time, several years before in fact, they all relate to the early years of the ownership whilst setting up and establishing the City Group.

 

The trouble is now is that it's been dragging on for so long that there is a general feeling that City are guilty regardless, several recent posts say so, despite no evidence that they are. So if they're acquitted there will be accusations of fixing and if they are guilty then punishment will have to be seen to be severe, regardless of whether the breaches are severe or not. The EPL have backed themselves into a hole in it. My own personal opinion, and it's just that, is that they've used a "scatter gun" approach in the hope that at least one charge will stick.

[hayfield]

3 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

I really wish people would stop repeating this "city should be treated like Everton or Forest" rubbish. Both those teams were clearly shown to have breached the guidelines and admitted it and so were punished accordingly. City haven't admitted anything, nor is there anything that can be shown to clearly prove it and so they have contested the charges. Yes its taking a long time, longer than us City fans would like as well, we'd rather it all over and done with if for nothing else to stop the constant sniping. But, like the EPL there will be an army of lawyers making lots of money out of it. As to whether City or EPL are delaying it, who knows, I'd take anything the EPL says with a pinch of salt these days.

 

What's as interesting is that over the past 5 years City are only seventh in the net spend league. Yes they've spent big, like the others, but they've been careful how they've bought and sold, all the charges relate to before this time, several years before in fact, they all relate to the early years of the ownership whilst setting up and establishing the City Group.

 

The trouble is now is that it's been dragging on for so long that there is a general feeling that City are guilty regardless, several recent posts say so, despite no evidence that they are. So if they're acquitted there will be accusations of fixing and if they are guilty then punishment will have to be seen to be severe, regardless of whether the breaches are severe or not. The EPL have backed themselves into a hole in it. My own personal opinion, and it's just that, is that they've used a "scatter gun" approach in the hope that at least one charge will stick.

 

Quite a lot of the charges are about City's repeated failure to comply with requests, don't forget UFEA are keeping a very close look at what is going on. If City have nothing to hide wht drag it out ?

 

As for the way City are being treated, The premier League should treat every team the same. City have prolonged this matter in a way neither Everton or Forest were allowed, as for Everton  they have been investigated twice in a season and both times found guilty. 

 

If City are innocent, which they may be just stand up and be counted, the longer this drags on gives the impression of cover up and murky background going on's

[kevinlms]

Surely the answer is simple?

 

If a team (any team) DOESN'T supply the required information in a timely manner, gets fined 1 point for the first month late, 2 for the next, 4 for the one after that, etc. I'll sure it won't take a mathematician hired by the club, to realise that their points are going to disappear rather rapidly!

7 points in 3 months, is a rapid start to the path to relegation - which is the worst penalty a league can impose.

 

Cash penalties are meaningless to larger clubs - fines are the cost of doing business.

[SHMD]

Presumably, such delays in the "accounts" are not tolerated by the Tax authorities?

 

 

Kev.

 

[GMKAT7]

Good morning folks,

 

The past record shows how excessive penalty points deductions have been made to clubs it is 'easy ' to punish, such as Luton Town, Reading and my own Sky Blues (CCFC).

 

IIRC Luton suffered a mind-blowing 25 points deduction, which ultimately resulted in the club descending to non-league football.

 

It should also be remembered that deductions were brought in after Leicester City's administration, which resulted in creditors being paid a miserly 10p in the £.

Thanks Gary!

 

To stop that happening again the League brought in the points deductions for any team going into administration.

 

Cheers, Nigel.

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 hours ago, kevinlms said:

Surely the answer is simple?

 

If a team (any team) DOESN'T supply the required information in a timely manner, gets fined 1 point for the first month late, 2 for the next, 4 for the one after that, etc. I'll sure it won't take a mathematician hired by the club, to realise that their points are going to disappear rather rapidly!

7 points in 3 months, is a rapid start to the path to relegation - which is the worst penalty a league can impose.

 

Cash penalties are meaningless to larger clubs - fines are the cost of doing business.

 

Yeah, like that's going to happen.

The PL have to kowtow to their cash cows, if they don't keep giving them a longer piece of string then Man City and the likes will just threaten to set up a European Super League and then the PL get nowt.

 

Mike.

[kevinlms]

5 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Yeah, like that's going to happen.

The PL have to kowtow to their cash cows, if they don't keep giving them a longer piece of string then Man City and the likes will just threaten to set up a European Super League and then the PL get nowt.

 

Mike.

They've already tried that and how happy were the FANS? The game at the highest levels, still need an audience or to buy the shirts. It can't all be a Pay TV audience in SE Asia.

[Enterprisingwestern]

5 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

They've already tried that and how happy were the FANS? The game at the highest levels, still need an audience or to buy the shirts. It can't all be a Pay TV audience in SE Asia.

 

As long as the money comes in, and it will or they wouldn't have run it up the flagpole once already.

Remember, accountants and shareholders aren't particularly bothered where the money comes from, as long as it passes for legal.

 

Mike.

[hayfield]

1 minute ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

As long as the money comes in, and it will or they wouldn't have run it up the flagpole once already.

Remember, accountants and shareholders aren't particularly bothered where the money comes from, as long as it passes for legal.

 

Mike.

 

In this case I don't believe any legality of the origin, but like in life those with excesses of money employ armies of folk to keep one step ahead of the authority, in this case its about initially keeping within the financial fair play rules. In my mind one of the biggest rule breach's are the 35 charges of withholding financial information.

 

As said start deducting points and increase the penalty the longer it goes on

 

Full credit to Chelsea for owning up to the previous owners missmedimas. Certainly enough time has elapsed for City to either prove that nothing has been done wrong, or face up to the consequences, the longer it drags out it seems the likelihood of guilt increases. 

 

Perhaps a clear threat of a period of banishment from the Premier league is warranted. Size of club or its wealth should not be  a mitigating factor, their reign at the top is very much tainted

 

The other factor is that owners should be aware that failure to comply strictly with the rules will not be tolerated and their right to own a club within the PL could be withdrawn

[kevinlms]

45 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Yeah, like that's going to happen.

The PL have to kowtow to their cash cows, if they don't keep giving them a longer piece of string then Man City and the likes will just threaten to set up a European Super League and then the PL get nowt.

 

Mike.

So you are suggesting that any rules are pointless, because the wealthiest clubs will just keep forming an ever smaller group?

Because that is the obvious conclusion, ignoring the fact that if you're down to say 12 clubs, then fans will get sick of the same teams playing each other, multiple times per season. That was the reason why the previous proposal of the ESL collapsed, once some clubs, mostly the British ones bailed out.

 

Legal action was supposed to occur, against those who resigned from the group and AFAIK the court room is very quiet!

[Enterprisingwestern]

5 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

So you are suggesting that any rules are pointless, because the wealthiest clubs will just keep forming an ever smaller group?

 

Well, as that has been happening since season 1992/93, it's a proven point.

 

Mike.