Southampton Exhibition 29-30th January

[nigcuberail]

Having visited this exhibition a couple of previous times, I decided to go this year, as before on the Sunday.

 

Having read some of the comments here about Saturday experiences with parking I was somewhat apprehensive. We aimed (and succeeded )to get away from Bournemouth by 9.30am, and arrived about 10.10am. Ominously all the parking spaces at the front were taken, so we followed the circuit and managed to get one of the last proper spaces at the rear - so almost full by 10.15

 

Once in the exhibition, I wondered where all the cars had come from as it was far from busy.

 

My feeling was that it was worth the trip and generally OK, especially as I was able to pick up an order fom Eilleen's.

 

However, I have some concerns:

 

1. Entry was £12 for the two of us, but did NOT include a guide - that was 0.90p extra - I feel that was very poor.

 

2. To echo Kenton, I feel that some parking guidance would have been useful, and opening the back gate might have helped vehicles leaving.

 

3. I must have been unlucky because several of the layouts I stopped at all had a lot of "hand from the sky" action going on for one reason or another which spoiled things for me a bit Was this particular to/caused by the venue?

 

I particularly liked Portchullin, Bay Street, Purbeck & Ackthorpe.

 

Also worth a mention was the DCC demo, although well comitted already I looked in to one of the demo rooms and found it in full swing with an excellent explanation of block detection. The demo layout was ideal for the task and the healthy audience seemed absorbed. Who was running it?

[AndyB]

Just wanted to pick up on a couple of points.

 

Car parking: We went on Sunday afternoon and the car park was busy, however there were spaces and we easily found a space. (Ooo, I can already here muttering from those not as fortunate). Maybe a shuttle bus could be considered next time from the town centre?

 

Wibdenshaw: Like prervious posters I, too, went to the show to see Wibdenshaw. This was the first time I'd seen this layout "live", having previously enjoyed the photos on Kier's website. I can't help but point out that of course there are going to be differences in the visual impact between close-up photos posed in natural light and peering at the same layout from the third row at an exhibition. Personally I loved the design which meant there was always a train appearing from one direction or another. This is a large layout and as such the available time and money to turn it into a reality doesn't got as far as on smaller layouts. Likewise it depicts an urban scene where the devil is in the detail - certainly more challenging to deliver than a succession of rolling fields. Overall I'd say "Top job".

 

Lastly, are video tripods the new rucksack? I'm wondering if a crowded show is the best time and place to plonk these things down in front of layouts, blocking access to other show visitors. Maybe my route round the show just unfortunately coincided with the filming route, but more than once I was unable to see a layout at all. Is the presumption that people doing professional filming have "right of way"?

 

And here's the test. Would I go again? Very much so. Many thanks to the organisers and exhibitors for giving up your time to provide such an entertaining event.

[Kenton]

1. Entry was £12 for the two of us, but did NOT include a guide - that was 0.90p extra - I feel that was very poor.

Only was charged 50p for mine but it wasn't really worth it. Only useful to find where each layout was and a A4 sheet free handout would have sufficed. I do dislike paying for a guide that gives details of the layouts but no track plan/schematic.

 

On the Saturday the group in font of me were discussing the price charged for children and how the price seemed high compared to other shows.

I have to admit that the price of entry never really puts me off - it is the value for money that I get for what I'm charged that is more important. I think (organised car parking aside) that for £6 per adult the show was well worth it.

[Ron Ron Ron]

.....are video tripods the new rucksack?

 

I think I know just what you mean.

It's the look that goes with it too.... "I have a tripod and demand absolute priority".

 

 

 

Wibdenshaw: .........I can't help but point out that of course there are going to be differences in the visual impact between close-up photos posed in natural light and peering at the same layout from the third row at an exhibition......

There were only about 4 or 5 people watching when I was there, so I got as close as reasonably possible. I agree the lighting was poor and gave everything an orange or yellow tint.

This layout obviously photographs better than it looks in the "flesh", but it had lots of movement and on track interest, even if off track it lacks a bit.

 

Parking has been a problem at this exhibition going back a long way both when it was held at the Eastpoint Centre and in the three years it's been held at the new venue in Eastleigh. If anything it's worst at Eastleigh because of local parking restrictions and the limited on road parking for such an event.

I went on Sunday and the car park was full as I expected and all the roadside parking had been taken. Fortunately someone was leaving early and I grabbed a spot about 200yds from the road entrance. When I left at around 2:30, there were loads of empty spaces along the road, so I suppose a large number of visitors must have arrived early.

One of the traders who I know said that they'd all been asked (exhibitors and traders etc,) to park around the back, but he observed on Sunday morning a lot of them had parked in the front car park and nearly filled it up before opening time.

The problem is that not many suitable venues are going to have parking for several hundred cars and I'm sure this is a problem for quite a few exhibitions.

 

I thought it was a good show with more good layouts than poor. Also it was nice to see that most layouts had proper lighting and many were presented with a top valance (or whatever it's called) and sides.

Top marks to Portchullin too. Very atmospheric and proof that attention to detail isn't limited to what's on the track and surrounding scenery.

 

 

.

 

 

 

[petethemole]

I was there on Saturday with my boy. He got a bit bored as these days he's more into Lego, but he dutifully went round with me before sitting down with a book. He liked Bay Sreet, Clutton, Purbeck and Bear Creek. I was impressed by most layouts, particularly Portchullin, Great Shefford, Cramdin Yard, Yeoford and Melbridge Dock. As a local, it's a 5 minute bus ride and a walk for me, but the main reason parking is limited is the college doesn't have much parking space. They discourage students from driving in, and those that have to, park at an off-site car park. I agree a shuttle bus from Eastleigh centre would be good. The organisers of Eurotrack, not far away at the leisure centre, lay on a vintage bus service from Eastleigh and So'ton Airport stations. For future reference, there is a service bus (Bluestar No2) from Eastleigh bus staion to a stop 5 minutes walk away from Barton Peveril.

Pete

[Kenton]

They discourage students from driving in, and those that have to, park at an off-site car park.

Whoa! you mean to say there was an off-site car park available but no one giving directions to it?

 

Thinking about it more I'm surprised we even found our way to the picnic tables at the back or even that it was available to park on. There was very little grass left on it after it had been churned up by maneuvering cars.

[beeldee]

Good evening all, I have been reading the comments with interest, as I am the treasurer of SMRS.

 

I thought I would add some views from the organising side. I won't comment on quality of layouts as I find that the most subjective of all. I can say that we try very hard to get a balance of scales and eras.

 

Dealing in no particular order, the guide cost was 50p, and is the best bargain in the show as it costs us 85p to produce. We look as if we may have found a different printer and we are hopeful that next year we will have a better quality product, with colour, for the same price. Like all things it's a matter of preference as to whether you want a guide with some info or just a list of stand numbers. For those that just want a list of stands there were layout diagrams on the walls showing this, but I will accept they didn't stand out well enough, unfortunately there s a lot of clutter on the walls in colleges and it's difficult to make a notice stand out. We've noted it for next year.

 

Parking. The area that we have most problems with. Unfortunately there is no venue in Southampton or the surrounding area that would give us the parking we require. I have seen the comments re parking control and it's something we have considered but the difficulty is what happens if an accident is caused by the controller. Secondly to be effective it would require at least two people and we are quite a small club numbers wise, less than 30 and we really struggle to man the exhibition as it is. I had no idea the college students use an off-site car park, I can't think that is close because we've really looked at every location in the vicinity to try to address the problem. I will take it back to committee however, in case we've missed something. I note the comment on the vintage bus etc, and would be interested to know how many people would use this. I would have thought that most car users would not want leave their cars at Parkway or Eastleigh stations because the charges are quite high and parking in Eastleigh itself is a bit of a nightmare anyway.

 

We do ask exhibitors and traders to park at the rear of the building, so we can close the back off and the whole of the front is available for visitors, but for reasons I can't understand some people don't want to walk more than 50 yards.

 

I've probably taken more space than I should have but hopefully I will have thrown some light on it. I would be delighted to receive any ideas, suggestions, views, etc, either on this thread of emailed to me.

 

Regards,

 

Brian Drayton

[Penlan]

....... I've probably taken more space than I should have but hopefully I will have thrown some light on it. I would be delighted to receive any ideas, suggestions, views, etc, either on this thread of emailed to me.

Don't worry about the space, anybody connected with an exhibition management team who is willing to both accept views from this forum and give their view from the other side, is most welcome here in my opinion.

 

Oh, and Brian, welcome to RMweb.

[PhilH]

Welcome Brian, about time you were on here. Thanks for your views.

 

Phil (failed Barton Peverilite [many years ago when it was a grammar school])

[nigcuberail]

.

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Welcome Brian, and as already said. well done for noting the views and being prepared to respond.

 

 

the guide cost was 50p

 

Apologies for getting it wrong - I had not applied my glasses at the pay desk and my eyes were still watering having handed over the £12

 

My point was that for £12 the guide could have been thrown in, but I know it is a case of where do you start & where do you finish (you dont get a free program at rugby or football matches!).

 

Having been before, I was aware of the parking problems, that was why we went on the Sunday and early.

 

Will probably still go again though.

[AndyB]

 

Parking....I have seen the comments re parking control and it's something we have considered but the difficulty is what happens if an accident is caused by the controller.....

 

 

Taking that specific point it would be worth you talking to other local clubs first off to see how they tackle the indemnity issue. I'm assuming that the venue would have required you to demonstrate some form of insurance, much as would be taken out for a fireworks event. I think the main value of stewarding would be to control traffic up and down the side access road running to the rear of the college. Vibisibilty is good down and drivers are still responsible for control of their own vehicles.

 

Would it be possible to see if you could "borrow" some members from other local clubs to assist at the show?

 

And of course, many thanks for taking the trouble to lay the show on at all. Much appreciated!

 

Andy (Hampshire Ambassadors scheme)

[Kenton]

Thanks Brian,

If I can be a little more constructive than my previous posts.

Re car parking.

- If there is an off-site car park it really will help alleviate this complaint. I have been to a number of shows where the overflow car park is quite some distance away yet they manage this by providing a mini-bus shuttle.

- management of the car park - nearly every show I go to use either club members or local scout/cadet groups to man them using walkie-talkies. Perhaps one of the managers of those clubs can comment regarding liability.

Re show guide.

They were being quite actively sold on the door, before the pay desk and no suggestion was made that the floor plans were available inside. The ability to download the information as a pdf file prior to the show might be worth considering - again other shows do it.

I don't think it was worth 85p. and as stated above not even 50p. Again a number of shows give that standard of guide away free on the door.

I know it costs something to produce but I always thought that was covered by local and trade advertisers.

I'm not sure that colour photos is what is really wanted. Again, for me, a guide that doesn't include a plan with every layout description is of little worth. I rarely read the guide until after the show, or when I sit down for a rest, a cup of coffee and sandwich.

Re trade/layout content:

although the trade and layouts were a bit spread out over the venue - I had no trouble finding them, the cafeteria area was a bit over-crowded but that was probably my fault for choosing to go there at mid-day.

the content was about right in both respects and was, I thought, well balanced.

 

I hope the numbers were up and club benefited.

 

 

 

-

[Ron Ron Ron]

Brian, thanks for coming on here and being so open. I hope the show was a great financial success for the club.

 

If I may, just to add to the above comments. The parking problem isn't really about parking "on-site" because as you know there's quite limited parking inside the gates. The real issue is parking outside where there are limited spaces on the roadside and almost the whole area is either a residents parking zone or covered with double yellow lines.

 

Once the car park is full, which happens very quickly, the roadside spaces also fill up in no time at all. Then one has to drive up and down and around the area trying to find somewhere that isn't covered by those double yellow lines or "residents permit only" rules. Not easy at all..

As it's out of sight of the venue, I don't know if these problems are apparent to yourself and the other organisers and members.

 

As mentioned in a couple of posts above, people have given up, turned away and gone home. I did the same last year and didn't return. The year before it took me nearly half an hour of "cruising" the area before I ended up almost at Fleming Park and had to walk quite a distance back to Barton Peveril.

 

If "off site" parking can be found, then that might be the solution, but I appreciate there may be significant cost implications.

I don' t know what else I could suggest, but hope a solution can be found.

 

Regards

Ron

[Kenton]

The parking problem isn't really about parking "on-site"

I have to disagree - it most certainly is. The parking does not allow a one way circuit so when folk drive up the side of the building to the "picnic field" at the back they meet others coming the other way already frustrated that there is no parking left. With parking already on both sides of this lane and cars unable to reverse as others have followed the lead everything comes to a standstill. I had already parked when walking back two guys were having a stand off. I realty thought it was going to end in a fist fight. I even raised the fact with the guy on the door who seemed dis-interested - as in let them get on with it. But we all know just how tempers can rise when there are cars badly parked or simply no parking and no idea where to go to look.

 

I have to add that this show is not alone in this respect. It is just that some stand out much more than others.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Sorry, I wasn't aware this was going on around the back Kenton, as I've never been able to get inside the front gates. It sounds like a right mess.

Whatever is happening inside, there's still a big problem in trying to park outside.

[Guest Belgian]

Perhaps part of the problem with the parking is that one assumes that the arrows on the road indicate the direction of travel. The track up the side of the building indicates it is one-way, so when I wanted to leave, having parked near the start of it, went on to the far end, cruised around the back looking for an exit, only to find it closed off. Thus I went back "the wrong way" along the side, as did others, causing some coming towards us, following the arrows, to get quite irate as we approached them.

 

I presume the rear exit is closed off to prevent us from using the residential roads outside for parking, but it certainly didn't help for those who were trying to find a place to park.

 

Otherwise, I thought it was one of the best shows I have been to in a long time, with a good balance of traders and a nice variety of layouts. I was especially entranced by the 009 lines, based on the Corris and Furzebrook systems: the locomotives were truly amazing!

 

JE

[Southernman46]

Good exhibition

 

The rear exit was closed and padlocked which did complicate the flow of traffic arrangement somewhat. I think arranging with the college for this gate to be working and some temporary signage (project for the students ??) in the carpark with a couple of "stewards" ( any local scout / cadets groups willing to do it ?? - Andover use this particular resource very well) should sort things out next year.

[Charlie]

When I left on the Saturday at about 1645 the gates were open and I could leave out the back. There did seem to be little confusion on the parking front and I appreciate the issues of finding a site which has enough room, but have you looked at Tautons college? Although they have the same parking issues as Barton Pevril on site. The surrounding streets are easier to park in, coupled to the fact that bus links to the station and city centre are much better. Though this would still have had issues with the Engineering works that seemed to be going on that weekend by Network Rail....

 

Re: the signage. Maybe having them on separate stands to make them more obvious and not blending in to the wall.

 

On the whole though and very enjoyable show and I'm glad that I went. A shame that one of the rooms with the Lee-on-solent set in didn't seem to have been visited that much, though quite why that was I'm unsure, but everywhere else seemed well visited.

[beeldee]

Good evening all and thank you for the welcome.

 

Barton Peverel has changed a bit since we were there Phil, two years ago I couldn't recognise where I was.

 

Some interesting comments, on the rear gate, it was agreed with the college that would be kept closed, principally because we didn't want people driving in and clashing with people coming the other way, the plan being that part would be full of exhibitors, traders and club members and helpers, but as I mentioned yesterday that plan seems to get scuppered by people refusing to do that. We had a discussion about opening the gate late Sunday because we thought it might encourage people to exit rather than drive back against the flow. The other advantage may be that people not getting a space would go out and park in the road on that side of the college. Most of the roads permit parking at the weekends, permits only during the week. We'll be giving that some thought for next year.

 

I take on board the comment about diagrams, I like those in a guide myself. I'm afraid that this year, having lost over £400 on guides last year, we kept the content to a minimum to keep costs down. We do get some money, from adverts but it doesn't amount to much, we managed to keep the loss down to a reasonable level, which is a result. Our new contact looks hopeful and next year one of our members who has more experience in publishing is going to do it so I'm hopeful we will have a much better guide and I'll do my best to see the diagrams are in.

 

We also need better signs to the theatre, where Porthcullin was, as it seems to be getting missed, again it needs signs that are more prominent. I personally thought Portcullin was excellent, it was my favourite.

 

I forgot to respond to the cost yesterday. The price increase this year was the first in 3 years and our costs have risen tremendously in that time. One of the problems is that in order to provide quality layouts without repeating we have to go further afield and that put travel and accomodation costs up. We would hope to keep that price for some time.

 

Next years main layout is Gresley Beat.

 

Regards, Brian

[Ron Ron Ron]

I wouldn't worry about the entrance fee Brian.

Some people need to "get real" regards present day pricing and realise £6 is very good value for a couple of hours enjoyment, compared to the entrance fees for other forms of entertainment.

Rough examples.....

 

Cinema - £6 - £10 a ticket

Theatre - £20 to £45 a ticket

Concerts - £20 - £120 a ticket

Football - £25 - £60 a ticket (regular games) or £50 - £200 for Cup finals.

 

 

 

[Southernman46]

Hear Hear

[AndyB]

Show guide picing:

 

To put this in context the 1975 National Model Railway Exhibition guide cost 20p. It was a 50-page glossy B&W print booklet with trackplans for each layout and photos.

 

Ok, so you could argue that the volumes printed and sold would have been far higher.

 

So lets take, for example, a show guide to the Ilford show of a similar era (mid 70s) and similar crowd size to Southampton. I believe the price was about 75p (I shall check later!) for an A4 guide.

 

Taking account of inflation over the lat 35 years I can only guess that modern digital printing has helped keep prices down. But the flip side is that we were prepared to pay hansomly for a guide that was worth having.

 

I'd be prepared to pay more for a guide if it had a trackplan for each layout. That would have helped me translate each of the layouts my son loved into Brio when we got home!!

 

Andy

[Kenton]

A good example of a good guide is that produced for AbRail (Abingdon) glossy and with plenty of track plans. It is only a 1 day expo as well so much harder to recoup costs.

 

I have just looked back through a couple previous SMR Show guides for 2006 and 2008 (when at the Eastpoint Centre) both contain at least a couple of track plans and were colour photos on the front cover. Both had what appeared to be more supporting adverts. I didn't go to 2009 or 2010.

 

I guess that most guide editors fall into a kind of a "rut" and stick with the same format year after year, good/bad or brilliant.

 

Having read a fair few guides I get the impression that the text on each layout tends to be supplied by the layout owner - makes good sense. But there are some basic information that should be asked for/provided: scale, gauge, control systems, region, era (and I don't mean Bachmann so-called era scheme), layout size, track plan (scenic a must, FY nice to have) it doesn't have to be to scale but why not, owner, operators, contact, website.

[steve45]

This is my first post so I'm sorry that I dont know how to link back to previous posts.

 

nigcuberail asked about the DCC demo layout

 

The DCC demo was by people from Mckinley Railway, their website is www.mckinleyrailway.com

 

Its a very interesting website and not just for the DCC element, you may remember the Mckinley Railway was featured in a dvd in Railway Modeller a year or so back and also it was featured in Model Rail.

 

Steve

[nigcuberail]

nigcuberail asked about the DCC demo layout

 

Thanks Steve.