GRANBY JUNCTION - Shunting Siphons for the Up Parcels with a Manor!

[halsey]

Agreed its brilliant and yes that's the one - thanks - I sense a lot more research coming up!

[Edwardian]

Well, it's been immensely enjoyable catching up with this thread.   Though scenically very accomplished to modern standards and detailed to perfection, it reminds me of the layouts we used to see in RM in the '50s and '60s; that is, everything a model railway should be, but we don't seem to build 'em like that any more in the UK.

[john dew]

Hi Edwardian  

 

I have to say that salutation doesnt look quite right   Nevertheless let me thank you for increasing my like ratings dramatically. I do admire your perseverance in reading through all my meanderings over the years.

 

You are very kind about Granby......I certainly didnt model it based on RM Layouts in the 50s and 60s......I have never seen any and, to my intense regret, I have never even been able to go to a Railway Exhibition in the UK!

 

Having failed to persuade my parents to buy me a Dublo Train Set (with a Pannier naturally),army service/career/marriage etc, we then went on to produce two daughters (not interested) and two grand daughters (likewise). It was only when I was 55 I decided that I had better do something about it myself. I have to say that trying to set up an 00 gauge GWR  layout in Western Canada, with literally zero knowledge base, is quite the challenge. In consequence, initially I was heavily dependent on the writings of C.J. Freezer et al. It may be that it is as result of me using these sources that you see the similarity with 50s style layouts?

 

As I said you are very kind.....perhaps too kind. I am pretty happy with a number of the sub scenes I have created but I am not overly satisfied with the way they are linked together.......if there were to be a Granby IV (which will not happen) I would do a number of things differently......not least the backscenes. However from a glass half full perspective (which is how I view Englands result on Saturday!) I continue to get an enormous amount of enjoyment out of Granby......and this is only enhanced by the comments and encouragement that I receive from you and everyone else on RMWeb

 

Kind Regards from a sunny Vancouver

 

John

[M.I.B]

John, 

 

What would you do about the backscenes if you did G Mk4?  I am interested because I am in a quandry what to do about urban 1930s-50s back scenes for NC when it gets built.

 

My only thought so far would be to do a blue sky/wash and then smother the edges of the layout in differing structures and low  relief buildings to cut out the amount of back scene needed. 

 

That's great for the "short sides" but I have the "long Side" to finish, and the view is over and past the coal drop ramp and behind the turntable. (The coal drop ramp and drop is along the far right of this mock up)

 

 

I guess I won't need much behind the coal drop ramp, but the part that concerns me is at the right foreground - the end of the coal drop, behind the turntable and  off to the front left of this view.  

 

I really don't want a "cartoon drawing", and most of the photo scenes are modern.

Edited February 10, 2016 by M.I.B

[john dew]

I would use photographic landscapes rather than the hodgepodge of town scene sheets and mounted cutouts that I have used.

 

The printed landscapes that I have seen recently are so much more realistic and make great backdrops for photographs. Examples that spring to mind are Rob ANTB,Larry Ellesmere and a guy called Tony who I know from another forum.....but his layout Wakefield West is on RMWeb ......it's worth looking at.

 

I think all of these guys either edited (or had it done for them) any modern intrusions......Tv aerials ,satellite dishes etc.

 

If you don't want the cost of a professional back scene I think, given hindsight, I would have preferred hand painted sky and hillsides. In the case of your shed the varied buildings and activity only need a muted backdrop.

 

Hope your trip is going well......rest assured I will be cheering on your boys in blue this Saturday at Cardiff....albeit from afar

 

Best wishes

 

John

[Edwardian]

Well, John, the C J Freezer reference would seem to explain all!

 

He was, as I recall, the master of track plans for ordinary British spare bedrooms that allowed for a double track mainline with at least one, large town, station, goods yard, MPD and a branch line. People built 'em like that in those days.  Now we are often too coy, as if such ambition is no longer for us.  Less is more is the fashion, but I miss those layouts, and the fact that people were unabashed about wanting express passenger engines, bags of operational interest and the complete railway scene with plenty of scenery, people and vehicles to boot; the have it all railway. 

 

Many of us secretly yearn for it, too, despite being repeatedly told that sparse is beautiful.  Yes, many fine layouts have been created in which one locomotive is in steam, people are merely 'suggested' by an open door or abandoned mug of tea, and the quiet stillness of decay prevails.  But in this hobby there is also room for the blockbuster, the layout that says 'I'd like to represent all the major facets of the steam age railway in its heyday, with a list of essential features as long as my arm".  It is, of course, a difficult thing to pull off in a convincing and visually satisfying way, but you have done so.  Further, you have done so to modern standards of modelling, of detail and fidelity.  Given the size and intensity of the layout, that is no mean feat.

 

So, for me the layout is a triumph, and one we are unlikely to tire of. 

 

Keep up the good work,

 

James

[john dew]

Good morning James (that has a much better ring to it when replying to an Edwardian )

 

I must confess to being quite taken aback when I read your post last night. You are far too generous in your praise of Granby. It is however greatly appreciated. As you may have gathered I model alone. My family, bless them, are often very complimentary...."thats nice".....but its hardly praise from a profound knowledge base. I rely on this forum, and a couple of smaller bodies, for advice and feedback. Comments such as yours are enormously encouraging. You have actually made me think I might have achieved something after all the hours that I have spent in the Railway room......thank you so much.

 

Best wishes from Vancouver

 

John

[Edwardian]

Praise where praise is due, John.

 

Best wishes from the Land of the Prince Bishops.

 

James

[john dew]

There is now very little undeveloped real estate left on Granby

The next few posts will be focussed on building and operating a dairy/creamery on this postage stamp site
 

 

 

 

 

Adjacent to Cynwyd cattle dock and accessed via the goods yard it was originally destined to be a timber yard. However I became fascinated by the impact that the railways had on the movement of milk from cow to consumer. Incorporating a dairy, however cramped, would enable me to replicate this traffic. So the Timber yard was binned and the site has remained vacant and stayed like this for at least four years.

When I started researching the project in more detail.......to get an idea on shape, size and colour.....I googled "Model Railway Dairies "
one of the first hits I got ......was the shot above ......not terribly helpful!

However I struck gold with this

 

http://mike.da2c.org/igg/rail/7-fops/fo-milk.htm

Many will already be familiar with it but for those who are not its a veritable mine of information.....thoroughly recommended as a source on all manner of railway minutae

Because of the pie shaped site I made some card cutouts to see what would work best.
 

 

 

My time frame of the late 1940s encompasses a number of different phases in the evolution of milk transport and I have tried to reflect that in the building design. Milk was still collected from farms in churns but most was processed at local creameries, like mine, before transhipment to major population centres in glass lined tankers.

 

.As an aside, milk distribuition, like most things I guess, has evolved quite dramatically during my lifetime. One of my lasting childhood memories would be the milk still being delivered in a pony and trap in the middle of suburbia (Great Crosby,Liverpool 23). We used to take a jug out and the milk was ladled out from a churn

 

 

 

There will be a couple of loading bays to receive Milk Churns and despatch finished products like Butter and dried milk.

On the right you can see the mock up of the covered area where the milk tankers wil be loaded.

After much thought I am going to make the main building with a card shell clad with Slaters Stone plasticard.......but probably with a Scalescene printed roof.

I am still undecided on colour......mucky grey will tie in with the mill and goods shed but it does seem that many dairies were whitewashed.......my source above states that during WWII they were actually camouflaged because of this.....I am sorely tempted to do this...... but right now I am veering towards weathered white.

 

 

  Here are some "cast offs" which I hope to convert into ancillary buildings. The original Ratio Timber merchants is destined to become the covered shed for steam washing the tankers. The very early vintage Metcalfe "Elk" chimney will be clad with plasticard and I need to build a small boilerhouse and find room for a water tank.

Lots to do.......to finish here is a shot of two full tankers being taken from the dairy down the yard to the bay siding to be attached to the next passenger train to Granby........and from there to be attached to the Shrewsbury-Birkenhead Milk Train which can be just seen above, leaving the storage sidings

 

 

The beauty of a direct connection to the station through the yard means I dont have to worry about a brake van which would have made shunting a right pain. Less certain about the correct head lamp code......but I guess light engine covers a multitude of sins within the station?

Best wishes from Vancouver where the monsoon has temporarily eased

 

John

Edited December 5, 2022 by john dew
5/12/22 Photos

[halsey]

I remain challenged, inspired and in awe!

Edited February 20, 2016 by halsey

[M.I.B]

Inspiring as always. Many thanks John.

[john dew]

I am afraid, that for the last month, apart from clicking "like" buttons, I have been very inactive on this forum. Actually I have been inactive period. I stupidly attempted to shovel rather a lot of very heavy, very wet soil into a raised bed. Not a very clever thing to do at my age, particularly when I already have 2 vertebrae fused together.......there is no fool like an old fool.http://yourmodelrailway.net/images/emoticons/icon_redface.gif If it was not so painful there is something faintly humorous about knocking out ones back when working on something that is designed to prevent that!

Its slowly sorting itself out so now I can get back to doing some modellinghttp://yourmodelrailway.net/images/emoticons/small.gif

The window and door apertures were cut out and then Slaters plasticard was glued to the individual walls. I am using a sort of modified Scalescenes approach setting up rebated corners and slots by laminating layers of card......but sadly not with the same degree of precision! 
 

 

 

 

Here is the rail side wall, to which a loading platform has been added

 

 

In parallel with the building work, I am setting up numerous RR&Co schedules so that I can automatically get milk tankers from the dairy up to the main line.

I left you with Cynwyd's banking pannier 6757 hauling 2 laden tankers from the dairy, through the goods yard, to the bay platform there to await attachment to the regular branch passenger train

 

 

 

The tankers are left in the bay and 6757 heads off on other duties
 

 

Shortly afterwards the hourly service arrives from Granby hauled by 57xx 5773. I would really like to operate this service with my Bachmann small prairies. I drool every time I see Rob using his on ANTB. Unfortunately with the kadee mounted on the bogie they are too unreliable at coupling. I keep working on trying to mount the kadee shimmed on to the body. The problem is that to provide clearance for the bogie to swing without fouling the coupling the kadee has to be cut back so that its almost impossible to mount it securely. I havent totally given up but for now I have reverted to using two tried,tested and very well behaved panniers
 

 

5773 runs around its train ready for the next trip to Granby. This regular routine is now pretty much a completely handsfree operation. Now I have to incorporate some checks so that Train Controller recognises there are two full tankers waiting to be coupled.
 

 

Once the train is ready to depart it pulls forward sufficient for the rear of the train to clear the bay point, pauses for it to be set for the bay and then reverses slowly into the bay to couple with the tankers

 

And then departs up Cynwyd bank for Granby. TC calculates momentum settings based on the tonnage the loco is hauling. Its fascinating to see the difference in performance between light engine and a laden train......one gets a similar effect with the addition of the two tankers

Hopefully next week I can show you the tankers arriving at Granby.

 

Regular readers will note that after the fiasco of my Rugby World cup forecasts I have been somewhat reticent about writing about the 6 nations. With the final games tomorrow and England poised to take the Grand Slam I am not going to tempt fate by making any forecasts.......I was hiding behind the sofa during the last 10 minutes of the welsh game. However I wish them well and I also hope that Scotland's resurgence continues. Hopefully MIB will be back from Afghanistan (via Budapest!!!) in time to enjoy the latter

 

Regards from a sunny Vancouver

Edited December 5, 2022 by john dew
5/12/2022 Photos

[GWR8700]

Why does 6757 have the newer style cab when the 67xx class wasn't a part of the 8750 class?  Was the prototype also given this type of cab?

Edited March 19, 2016 by GWR8700

[john dew]

Thanks for the likes gentlemen.

 

 

Why does 6757 have the newer style cab when the 67xx class wasn't a part of the 8750 class?  Was the prototype also given this type of cab?

 

I had no idea but thought I had better check rather than reply thats how I got it from Bachmann

 

  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/29589-gwr-67xx-numbering/

 

67xx class
I have read the thread "GWR pannier Livery" and the detailed information that Buffalo gave in post #13 link to post 13 , together with the link that Pannier Tank - David, gave in his post 57xx/8750 General info. I understand that the first 50 locos 6700-49 were steam breaked and 3 link coupling and had the old style/straight cab. The remaining 6750-79, like Nos. 6700-49, had steam brake fittings only, but had the new style/curved cab.
 

When I googled GWR 6757 I found that it was built in December 1947 which accounts for its pristine appearance on Granby in early 1948!

 

Kind Regards

 

John

 

[M.I.B]

Thank you John.  Inspirational modelling as ever.  Sorry to hear about the back.

 

I was Home just in time to see my team turn a good win into another defeat.  Next year......

[john dew]

Thanks MIB.........Welcome home!

 

Your team were a tad unlucky and Sexton should get an Oscar for the head holding dramatics.......I thought they were clamping down on the theatricals.

 

I wouldn't say England's performance was faultless but they did have some genuine purple patches. Australian tour will be interesting.

[john dew]

Thanks again for the likes

 

More progress on the Dairy building and the Milk Tankers finally arrive at Granby!

I hope this split format is a more interesting way of posting a "how I did it"http://yourmodelrailway.net/images/emoticons/icon_lol.gif . Comments/questions are always welcome.

 

Window frames from a Wills building pack have been added along with some dirty scalescene glazing. I guess I bought the pack 15 years ago and have used its contents on a number of projects. Getting down to the dregs now hence the rather eclectic collection! The frames overlay the aperture which helpfully conceals any cutting errors

 

In the foreground are steps that will lead up to the office door using laminated strips of 2 mm card......here is the finished article now attached tp the end wall

 

The single end gable and two intermediate walls were added to the long wall. Floors give added stability and stiffness

 

 

Slaters flagstones were added to the loading bay and exposed floors
 

 

Door is Wills boarding with a bit of wire bent up as a handle. The other bay which will be used to receive churns of untreated milk will be left open as will the larger opening for the despatch of pasteurised milk.

I apologise for the poor quality of these photos.....they were a bit rushed. The contrast with the next ones, shot remotely from a tripod, is rather markedhttp://yourmodelrailway.net/images/emoticons/icon_redface.gif


Here is an overall shot showing the passenger train with the two milk tankers arriving at Granby. Clearly spring has at last arrived in Vancouver....thats a gooseberry bush outside the window top left

 

In the previous post I mentioned that this B Set automatically shuttles back and forth on a regular basis.....at the branch the loco runs around the carriages whereas at Granby there is a loco exchange with a new loco joining the train from the loco spur. To get a swift turnaround, RR&Co starts the schedule to move the relief loco from the spur the moment the train passes the signal box.  Now that there are two trailing tankers I have to change this so that the station pilot will first edge forward ready to uncouple the tankers.......simpler said than done




 

I now have to devise two separate uncoupling routines. Firstly, once the passengers have alighted the train will reverse about 6" to stop over an uncoupling magnet thus releasing the tankers then secondly move forward to do the normal kadee shuffle over the buffers magnet thus uncoupling the incoming loco

The station pilot is 2259, a shiny new Collet, clearly setting Granby in early 1948 with the interim British Railways logo on the tender. It moves from the siding and couples up with the milk tankers. Thats why the train has to be pushed back so far....to avoid them being pushed back on to the carriages.

 

The pilot then pulls the tankers back on to the main head shunt to await the arrival of the Milk Train from Shrewsbury 

Once the turnout to the main line is cleared the relief loco 9643 comes off the loco spur to couple up with the carriages ready for the return trip to Cynwyd

 

 

After Easter the main building should be ready for the roof and I hope to show you photos of the Milk Train as it approaches Granby...........although having said that the postman has just arrived with a parcel from Cornwall.........its hardly breaking news but maybe I will take some shots of my Bow end Collets

 

Best wishes from a very wet Vancouver

 

John
 

Edited December 5, 2022 by john dew
5/12/2022

[G.M.R.]

Great story as usual, John. Love the photos.

[M.I.B]

Stunning railway, great building building, and a working gooseberry tree to boot...........you can make jam out of anything if you throw some goose-gogs in as well.

 

Lucky man.

 

Best wishes from Essex.  (Still no modelling done yet!!! But the car is half mended - should finish it tomorrow so hope of modelling is at hand.......)

[Edwardian]

The dairy building looks perfect for the job and I like the way you are doing it very much.

[john dew]

Thank you all for the kind comments and likes

 

Change of pace/topic this week.......I had intended to write about progress with the dairy building and finish up with a few shots of my new Collett Bow end carriages. The coaches are so good I decided to show a few more photos than planned and leave the dairy until the week end.

 

I know its hardly stop press news.......it seemed to take forever for the parcel to arrive from Cornwall! When it finally arrived, it was one of those joyous occasions when realisation is even better than expectation. 

 

Here is a rake of four headed by 7805 Broome Manor on the viaduct approaching Granby Junction

 

 

I ordered a rake of 6 coaches when they were first announced, without really appreciating how unlikely it would be for such a uniform rake to be still in service in 1947. I am, however, going to stick with a rake of 4 on the Birkenhead-Pwllheli run......because hopefully that could well have happened.....particularly headed by a Manor

 

 

 

and perhaps more importantly because 4 x 57' coaches are much better operationally given the confines of my fiddle yard.

 

The extra 3rd and compo will be used to create a more typical GWR look on the 8 coach Birkenhead-Penzance train. Like many GWR modellers I now have rather a surplus of Bachmann Sunshine Coaches!

 

Here are some individual shots

 

 

 

Brake/Third

 

 

 

All Third

 

 

 

 

First/Third

 

 

The detailing is superb

 

 

 

 

I am afraid I may horrify the purists but I am going to live with the 1927 livery......although the white rooves have to go.......I am very inexperienced at spraying so I think it will be a case of hand painting.....as with all my other GWR carriages.

 

 

 

 

For fixed rakes I use the alternative couplers that Hornby supply with Kadee #19 at the ends. The corridor connections are not quite as close as one gets with Hawksworths and Staniers but I must admit I prefer this simplified version.....I found fitting the earlier ones an absolute pain.

 

 

 

Look at the lamp holder!

 

To finish.........last time with pristine rooves

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by john dew
6/12/22 Photos

[john flann]

John, I always admire the persistence you demonstrate with Granby, not only its actual development but all the clever computer stuff.

 

But what I was really writing about was a casual reference to milk to your dairy in churns. I don't think that would be happening. As I understand it milk from the cows was collected from the individual farms and brought to a central point and there processed, pasturized and the like in bulk. Then loaded into the milk tanks for transport to the towns. Next it would be transfered to a bottling plant and once bottled it would be ready for distribution to the individual customers by way of the milkman and his float. And that would be the function of a city/town dairy, as yours.

 

I'm ready to stand corrected and maybe I haven't understood your workings, but I can recall seeing tank cars standing at one of the passenger platforms at Vauxhall and the emptying flexible hoses snaking across a grubby passenger platform. It all looked most unhygenic.

Edited April 1, 2016 by john flann

[john dew]

Good Morning John

 

Thank you for the kind comments

 

Over the years I admit to vacillating over the type of dairy I would have. At one stage it was going to be a bottling plant and you may even recall Hintock used to send a Tanker of processed milk to Granby!

 

However for a variety of operational reasons it made sense for the Dairy ( perhaps creamery would be more accurate) to be a processing plant. It is actually on the fictional Vale of Clwyd branch line and untreated milk was collected from the local farms by both road and rail. In 1947 some milk was collected in bulk in road tankers, but most was still collected in churns. The churns were collected from the farms by lorry or picked up by rail from either the local station or little railside platforms. The autotrain will trundle around once a day with a small siphon behind.

 

Once a day two rail tankers of pasteurised milk are hauled up to Granby, behind the B Set, to be attached to the Shrewsbury-Birkenhead Milk Train......which may well contain a Tanker from Hintock! I believe there was a regular milk train to Birkenhead but I havent been able to establish where the bottling plant was. It wouldnt have been at Woodside itself so I am guessing somewhere around Bromborough/Port Sunlight?

 

I do hope you agree that this is a feasible "legend"

 

Best wishes from a very sunny Vancouver

 

John

[john flann]

Yes John, thank you, I did think that you had thought it through but it wasn't clear, perhaps I hadn't paid enough attention. It just seemed a little odd as a dairy /creamery being located in Granby itself rather than being primarily a bottling plant.

 

Sun shining here too and very welcome it is, but rather brisk.

 

My regards,

[M.I.B]

 

To finish.........last time with pristine rooves

 

 

 

I look forward to seeing the results.