GRANBY JUNCTION - Shunting Siphons for the Up Parcels with a Manor!

[john dew]

Happy New Year to one and all. We, of course, must have been amongst the last to bring the year in .....once again I found myself shivering on the doorstep clutching some bread, a large piece of coal (hastily retrieved from the train room) and, fortunately, an equally large glass of malt.

I do hope that everyone had a very enjoyable Christmas.

Despite all the festivities I got a surprising amount done and the video of the turntable operation is pretty well complete.......hopefully I will be posting it shortly

I suppose this post is by way of a trailer:

 

 

 

This is a bit of a publicity shot.......in real life, engines were often bunched up like this,buffer to buffer. On the video you will see them a bit more spaced out as they move from block to block on their way to the turntable.


This shot of the RR&Co control panel shows the block structure
 

 

 

Engines coming on shed enter by way of Reception (top right) they then move a block at a time through the Ash pit and Coaling to the East Spur where they dog leg back on the long water column block to the West Spur.

From the West Spur the turntable bridge is called to the entry block, the loco passes on to the bridge which turns to the designated shed road. The loco leaves the bridge and either enters the shed or, if already occupied, stops outside.

I suspect it may not be prototypical but at Granby all locos on shed face outwards. The system does, however, detect which way they are facing when they enter both the coal and bridge blocks. Most blocks have just one set of brake and stop markers at the end of the block. However in order to stop in the centre of the bridge, and certainly not over or undershoot, multiple markers dependent on loco and or orientation are required.

Similarly with the coal block. Stopping these two very different locos directly under the chute required a fair amount of testing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note .....the photos show them on the bridge but I think they demonstrate my point.

 

Enough technical stuff for now......I know its not to everyones taste..........although I am always happy to answer questions http://yourmodelrailway.net/images/emoticons/icon_lol.gif

It was quite difficult working out how to film the sequence so that the viewer wasnt confused by locos apparently moving aimlessly back and forth . The ideal would really have been a genuine helicopter shot with the camera suspended from the ceiling

In the end I decided on three different camera angles.

Here are some shots of the "film studio" ..........from the rear
 

 

 

 

Mid level ..........Iphone on gorilla legs perched on Shed Roof


The sequence was run again to capture it from the front

 

 

 

 

As near a helicopter shot as I could manage............iphone on gorilla legs on tripod on (unseen) card table.

Low level close ups ..................................................ipad on site of Station Hotel

 

 

Shooting the videos was a bit nail biting........not the locos.... they behaved like thoroughbreds........but I was concerned about outside influences!

Fortunately nobody called either in person (we have two dogs) or on the phone http://yourmodelrailway.net/images/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif. Mrs D remembered to stay out of the bedroom....hardwood floor immediately above the train room http://yourmodelrailway.net/images/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif.............and most important resisted the impulse to start the vacuum cleaner, washing machine or dryer.....all right outside the train room.

More to come.....hopefully this will whet your appetite

 

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by john dew
5/9/22 Photos

[Mikkel]

Great stuff John. Excellent modelling and I'm now all excited to see the video. The Hollywood tricks do work    

[5BarVT]

Stopping these two very different locos directly under the chute required a fair amount of testing.

Hadn’t thought of that difficulty before: I see why you need TCG to do loco specific stopping points.

 

Enough technical stuff for now...

I enjoy your technical descriptions of what you do with Traincontroller, probably because I’m still learning and at the trial and error stage.

 

Thanks for posting with your trials and tribulations.

Paul.

[john dew]

Thanks for the likes and comments guys

 

So here is the video.............I am afraid that during the intro there is about 30 seconds of static which I have not been able to eliminate. Next time I think I will not try and mix photos and video or at least not with music

As it happens there is no commentary, hopefully it is self explanatory, so you can turn off the plinky plonk elevator music background and the static disappears

Hope you enjoy it

 

 

Regards from Vancouver

 

John

Edited September 6, 2022 by john dew
Added image

[gwrrob]

Evening John, a little bird tells me the post war Bachmann Hall is on the horizon.

[john dew]

Evening John, a little bird tells me the post war Bachmann Hall is on the horizon.

 

As in Cornwall? Hayley says its there already.

 

Cheers

 

Edited.....oops I tell a lie......it is indeed on the horizon....my apologies!

Edited January 4, 2019 by john dew

[trw1089]

Top notch video John, such great work shown off spectacularly!

 

Cheers

Tony

[M.I.B]

Great video.  Thanks for sharing John.

[Anthony Ashley]

John,

 

Just enjoyed looking at you video of the turn table operation. Your video made it very clear on the operation of the turn table and was excellent. Thanks very much. I have one on my layout and given I will be running TC Gold I have a lot to learn! The vision of the trains running followed by the electronic ops made it all very clear. I may need to fly you out from Canada to Australia. 

 

I think my wife and I will be travelling to Canada later in the year after July!!

 

Keep up the great modelling.

 

Regards, 

 

Anthony Ashley

[john dew]

John,

 

Just enjoyed looking at you video of the turn table operation. Your video made it very clear on the operation of the turn table and was excellent. Thanks very much. I have one on my layout and given I will be running TC Gold I have a lot to learn! The vision of the trains running followed by the electronic ops made it all very clear. I may need to fly you out from Canada to Australia. 

 

I think my wife and I will be travelling to Canada later in the year after July!!

 

Keep up the great modelling.

 

Regards, 

 

Anthony Ashley

 

Hi Anthony

 

So glad you liked it. Which turntable will you be using? As I learned to my cost (literally) it is best to have a turntable that is fully supported by Train Controller....like Fleischmann  (disclaimer)......you can use unsupported TTs (ie Heljan) but the results can be unpredictable...........you will also need to think about the decoder that will interface between TT and TC.

 

When and where in Canada are you and your wife visiting?

 

Best wishes

 

John

[Anthony Ashley]

John,

 

I have not yet purchased any TT so would consider very strongly your recommendations. As you have no doubt seen I have much to do before I get to that point, but slow and steady is the order of the day! I have been using ESU decoders, so imagine that would be a good option for a TT.

 

Sarah and I will be coming to Canada some time after Jul this year after my retirement. The only plans to date are that we will be seeing her relatives in Victoria and doing a Rocky Mountain train trip. Everything else is still up for consideration. I have said I would like to have a thorough recon of what is in Canada before committing to any specific COA, as I do not have a great idea on what is where. The internet will be my friend in working out what we should see.

 

Regards,

 

Anthony Ashley    

Edited January 8, 2019 by Anthony Ashley

[Mikkel]

Hi John, excellent video, I watched it in full screen and it really works well I think.

 

Amazing what phones can do these days (I can hear the past laughing: "You use telephones to film?!!!").

[john dew]

Thanks Mikkel

 

Thats very kind...I am glad you liked it......sorry about the static.

 

You are right about the phone........its photo capabilities are amazing.....I have only scratched the surface using it with the gorilla legs for still photos.....I should really use it a lot more

 

Regards

 

John

[john dew]

After all the excitement of the video........a change of pace:

 

At Christmas I received a surprise but very welcome present:

"An Historical Survey of Great Western Engine Sheds 1947" by E T Lyons

Perhaps not everyones choice of holiday reading.......certainly Mrs D successfully concealed her enthusiasm for reading it. .

Which was actually quite convenient because I have been unable to put it down.

Its a stunning book for any GWR enthusiast and particularly for anyone interested in the immediate Post War years.  Every Shed built by the GWR is listed........not just the fashionable ones on sleepy branch lines in Devon or the Cotswolds .  Each shed has its own page complete with track plan and photograph with all relevant details listed.

An absolute mine of information. I only wish I had it when I first started on Granby's shed. I had, for instance,no idea that quite a number of medium sized sheds had roundhouses......I thought they were generally restricted to very large sheds like Old Oak and Laira etc.

The actual loco allocation by shed at 31/12/47 is listed by wheel arrangement. This provided me with much food for thought. I have always suspected  that, perhaps like many other modelers, I buy too many 4-6-0 passenger and fitted freight expresses and not enough 0-6-0 work horses. Well the book certainly confirmed part of that suspicion.

Previousy I had always thought of Granby Shed as being similar in operation to Wrexham's shed at Croes Newyd.
Well in 1947 they had 39 locos....just like Granby........but only one was a 4-6-0!

So I tried a comparison with  Chester (51 locos) and Granby: (38 GWR locos)  

4-6-0                                       14                                    13
4-4-0                                         1                                      2
2-8-0                                         5                                      3
2-6-0                                       10                                      0
0-6-0                                         2                                      5                               
2-6-2T  **                                  7                                      3
0-6-2T                                       3                                      2
2-8-2T                                       0                                      1
0-6-0PT                                   18                                      7
0-4-2T                                       0                                      2

** Only Large prairies at Chester and Small prairies at Granby

I am afraid I have probably bored most people to death by now....my apologies.......but I think this type of research is yet another aspect of the hobby and the constant search for realism.....I rather enjoy it

Now I am not for one moment suggesting these numbers should be set in stone but they do provide a useful guide.......I probably wont buy any 4-6-0s for a while! I no longer need to justify having so many panniers

I am now not concerned that it is unlikely that there will be a new Manor in the next couple of years. But I am so pleased that Hornby and Dapol are producing, at long last, decent models of the Mogul and Large Prairie. I really hadnt appreciated how widespread their usage was in the area I model

Hope I havent bored you too much......though for the true GWR enthusiast..... if you need to know what was where in December 1947.....then I am your man!

I wonder if Mastermind is still running.....I may have found my specialist subject .

Regards from Vancouver

[Mikkel]

Interesting John, though I am shocked to learn that Granby doesn't have a Mogul yet (my favourite Churchward loco you see!).

 

So will you be getting 10 of the new Dapol ones in order to match the Chester allocation? 

[M.I.B]

I always prefer a grotty Mogul to a pannier John.  So buy away.............

[BWsTrains]

Hi John,

 

Fascinating stuff, I'm delighted to see the 0-6-0PT workhorses number, justifies my overweight allocation at my own shed. It always was a mental picture I had, unsupported by facts

For my setting Rule 1 applies as most locos are "passing thru" being from sheds East and West.

 

I'm sending a PM shortly, off topic to this,

 

regards,

 

Colin

Edited January 15, 2019 by BWsTrains

[brianusa]

From John in Vancouver.   <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<At Christmas I received a surprise but very welcome present:
"An Historical Survey of Great Western Engine Sheds 1947" by E T Lyons>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

I was lucky enough to be hanging around LA shed at that time from 1945.  I was only ten  in those early years but armed with my ABC, bought at North Road station, I had an idea of what was what.  Sadly then I imagined all I saw were resident and it never occurred to me that engines came from all over, but by later standards it was overwhelming.  Nothing that exotic, but Bulldogs, Saints and Stars were still in evidence along with some Victorian tanks.  With the later shed book, I was able to ascertain where they all came from and went to.  One day a Dean goods arrived "on the fish" which was really different!

 

Brian.

Edited January 15, 2019 by brianusa

[john dew]

Interesting John, though I am shocked to learn that Granby doesn't have a Mogul yet (my favourite Churchward loco you see!).

 

So will you be getting 10 of the new Dapol ones in order to match the Chester allocation? 

 

 

Hi Mikkel

They say old soldiers never die.....but Moguls do. Over the years I have had 2 or 3 but all are dead or at least inactive now. I finally removed the decoder from the last one a couple of years ago.

 

I dont contemplate anything like the Chester allocation but a couple wouldnt come amiss.....I have one on pre order and will take it from there. The problem maybe finding suitable turns for them. There is only a finite operating space available and all the suitable trains are currently being happily hauled by Deans and Collet Goods..........decisions decisions! 

 

Best Wishes

 

John

[john dew]

From John in Vancouver.   <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<At Christmas I received a surprise but very welcome present:

"An Historical Survey of Great Western Engine Sheds 1947" by E T Lyons>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

I was lucky enough to be hanging around LA shed at that time from 1945.  I was only ten  in those early years but armed with my ABC, bought at North Road station, I had an idea of what was what.  Sadly then I imagined all I saw were resident and it never occurred to me that engines came from all over, but by later standards it was overwhelming.  Nothing that exotic, but Bulldogs, Saints and Stars were still in evidence along with some Victorian tanks.  With the later shed book, I was able to ascertain where they all came from and went to.  One day a Dean goods arrived "on the fish" which was really different!

 

Brian.

 

Thats how I explain my abundance of 4-6-0s....most are visitors from Wolverhampton and beyond

 

I imagine you are enjoying the sun and blue skies like us?  Changes tomorrow though

 

Best wishes

 

John

[M.I.B]

I haven't had time to do the "Lyons check" yet, but I am sure I am low on panniers.  

 

As Colin and Brian say, visitors explain all sorts away, and in our timeframe, where certain engine had yet to receive ,say, outside pipes, sometimes we have to rename the engine to match it's condition, hence it has to be a visitor.  An excess of 4-6-0s and 2-8-0s is therefore very reasonable.   But not an imbalance of panniers in my case.   Perhaps OK to have lots of panniers if you are modelling a 4 way junction/hub in the pre-Beeching era.....

 

I have used Lyons for some time now to justify purchases and re-names.  It also helped with my initial loco rationalisation when I got rid of my 45XX and some others, simply because there were none about in the OOC vicinity at our time.

 

And visiting  "medium range" engines like Deans and Moguls and Collett Baby Castles are unlikely to be in my "manor" if they are Penzance engines or Chester engines.

 

 

Lyon's book has given me the level of reality that I am comfortable with.   Everyone has their own version of Rule 1.  Lyons has played a huge part in getting mine where it is.

[The Fatadder]

It seems a book that I really ought to add to the collection

[gwrrob]

As in Cornwall? Hayley says its there already.

 

Cheers

 

Edited.....oops I tell a lie......it is indeed on the horizon....my apologies!

 

It's in stock now John.

[john dew]

It seems a book that I really ought to add to the collection

I am very impressed. Its probably worth it just for the pictures and plans but the loco allocations are a big bonus.

 

Regards

 

John

[john dew]

.

 

I have used Lyons for some time now to justify purchases and re-names.  It also helped with my initial loco rationalisation when I got rid of my 45XX and some others, simply because there were none about in the OOC vicinity at our time.

 

And visiting  "medium range" engines like Deans and Moguls and Collett Baby Castles are unlikely to be in my "manor" if they are Penzance engines or Chester engines.

 

 

Lyon's book has given me the level of reality that I am comfortable with.   Everyone has their own version of Rule 1.  Lyons has played a huge part in getting mine where it is.

 

Previously I used GreatWestern.org for placing locos but the “ Lyons check” (I do like that phrase) is much more efficient.

 

I have a similar issue with 45xx.....difficult to find many in my area....but I have three that I am rather fond of and use a lot......its going to be a case of stretching Rule 1 until I have acquired a few large prairies

 

Cheers

 

John