Cliches on layouts

[melmerby]

There's about 12 of these around the UK:

 

Here's the menu:

Main_Menu_FEB_23_G.pdf

Edited May 23, 2023 by melmerby

[Pacific231G]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

There's about 12 of these around the UK:

 

Here's the menu:

Main_Menu_FEB_23_G.pdf 1.09 MB · 2 downloads

I don't know if they're still there but there used to be a couple of these on the Great North road that I went to several times while driving on business. I remember them as being pretty good (unlike Starvin Marvin's) 

[62613]

14 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

I don't know if they're still there but there used to be a couple of these on the Great North road that I went to several times while driving on business. I remember them as being pretty good (unlike Starvin Marvin's) 

They're the ones I was on about. Look like the Cover of the Hall and Oates album Abandoned Luncheonette

[melmerby]

15 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

I don't know if they're still there but there used to be a couple of these on the Great North road that I went to several times while driving on business. I remember them as being pretty good (unlike Starvin Marvin's) 

Here's their locations.

I was a bit generous saying 12 as there are only 9:

https://okdiners.com/our-diners/

 

Some on the A1 north of Peterborough

The picture I posted is Cannock on A5.

[Pacific231G]

On 24/05/2023 at 16:57, melmerby said:

Here's their locations.

I was a bit generous saying 12 as there are only 9:

https://okdiners.com/our-diners/

 

Some on the A1 north of Peterborough

The picture I posted is Cannock on A5.

Strangely enough, the design looks very similar to the former Starvin Marvin diner (now a block of flats). It's different from the classic 1950s American diner but, though I've eaten in plenty of diners while travelling in N. America., I don't recall any of them being absolutely the classic design though the same Budd like corrugated stainless steel fascia, itself based on railroad "streamliners", was not uncommon. I wonder if the Starvin Marvin and the OKs were from the same designer or based on a common American prototype.     

Edited May 26, 2023 by Pacific231G

[Player of trains]

Forgive me if this one has been posted but as I've just done one myself I've thought a dead engine no matter its form of locomotion can be a bit of a cliché depending on the context of where it is. Especially with the weathered models that can be found on EBay. By depending on context I mean usually some dead hollowed out engine at the back of a yard not necessarily near any engineering facilities that might be stripping it? Well at home on a heritage layout, light railway or engine shed but a bit odd elsewhere. 

[Northmoor]

7 hours ago, Player of trains said:

Forgive me if this one has been posted but as I've just done one myself I've thought a dead engine no matter its form of locomotion can be a bit of a cliché depending on the context of where it is. Especially with the weathered models that can be found on EBay. By depending on context I mean usually some dead hollowed out engine at the back of a yard not necessarily near any engineering facilities that might be stripping it? Well at home on a heritage layout, light railway or engine shed but a bit odd elsewhere. 

Yes, definitely a cliche and "Guilty as Charged".  I'm just getting round to finishing off a Dapol Bullied Pacific at the moment and I've tried to capture some of the features of a real scrap-line loco.  These didn't generally have their smokebox numberplates - mine is missing the whole door - con-rods and valve gear, whistle and definitely not a tender full of coal or nameplates).  Unlike some of the pretty pathetic examples for sale on eBay, it isn't built according to the instructions then just had a wash of dirty thinners thrown over it.

 

 

[Mark Saunders]

3 hours ago, Northmoor said:

Yes, definitely a cliche and "Guilty as Charged".  I'm just getting round to finishing off a Dapol Bullied Pacific at the moment and I've tried to capture some of the features of a real scrap-line loco.  These didn't generally have their smokebox numberplates - mine is missing the whole door - con-rods and valve gear, whistle and definitely not a tender full of coal or nameplates).  Unlike some of the pretty pathetic examples for sale on eBay, it isn't built according to the instructions then just had a wash of dirty thinners thrown over it.

 

 

Locomotives were sold as seen and many went into scrap yards with coal. Bolckows at North Blyth was an example of this.

[The Johnster]

Withdrawn steam locos ready for sale to scrap dealers who had to tender for them had the motion removed and stowed in the tender or bunker coal space, name/number/shed/works plates and any cast iron notices in the cabs removed, and an brass or copperwork removed at the depot.  Windows were usually taken out, the engines were in mid-gear, safety valves removed so that they could not be steamed, and secured by handbrake.  Dials and gauges were removed from the cabs, as were the regulator handles  and vacuum brake handles.  They were assembled at collection points and put out to tender; one such collection point was at Gloucester Barnwood sidings, where a lot of the Southern Pacifics fetched up and another at Shrewsbury Sutton Bridge, Black 5s and 8Fs, and of course others around the country.

 

This is slightly different from locos out of service and in store, just as frequent a feature of shed in the mid-60s.  These retained their motion but had sacking tied around the chimneys to prevent any lit fire from drawing.  This was apparently done to prevent boilers that were 'out of ticket' being steamed, and a loco in this condition was unlikely to see further service and would certainly be among the next in line for the measures outlined above. 

 

Speaking for WR practice and Woodham's, as these are what I am familiar with, locos were hauled from the collection points to the scrapyards by Hymeks, two or three at a time, with a brake van; ISTR 35mph being the allowed speed.  I never saw any loco at Woodham's (and they didn't last long enough for me to look properly at any other dealers!) with coal in the bunkers, and boilers were drained down, as were tanks, but even many years, even decades, after arrival the locos still had full sand boxes, last filled during prep for their final duties in service!  We used to light wood fires in the fireboxes to get photographic smoke from the chimneys, never with much success but it kept you warm on winter afternoons...

 

The external condition of the locos was fairly good until the early 70s, by which time the sea air had got under the paintwork and bits started to fall off.  In the mid 60s, there were locos i better external nick at Woodham's than a lot of those still in service!

[Player of trains]

14 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Withdrawn steam locos ready for sale to scrap dealers who had to tender for them had the motion removed and stowed in the tender or bunker coal space, name/number/shed/works plates and any cast iron notices in the cabs removed, and an brass or copperwork removed at the depot.  Windows were usually taken out, the engines were in mid-gear, safety valves removed so that they could not be steamed, and secured by handbrake.  Dials and gauges were removed from the cabs, as were the regulator handles  and vacuum brake handles.  They were assembled at collection points and put out to tender; one such collection point was at Gloucester Barnwood sidings, where a lot of the Southern Pacifics fetched up and another at Shrewsbury Sutton Bridge, Black 5s and 8Fs, and of course others around the country.

 

This is slightly different from locos out of service and in store, just as frequent a feature of shed in the mid-60s.  These retained their motion but had sacking tied around the chimneys to prevent any lit fire from drawing.  This was apparently done to prevent boilers that were 'out of ticket' being steamed, and a loco in this condition was unlikely to see further service and would certainly be among the next in line for the measures outlined above. 

 

Speaking for WR practice and Woodham's, as these are what I am familiar with, locos were hauled from the collection points to the scrapyards by Hymeks, two or three at a time, with a brake van; ISTR 35mph being the allowed speed.  I never saw any loco at Woodham's (and they didn't last long enough for me to look properly at any other dealers!) with coal in the bunkers, and boilers were drained down, as were tanks, but even many years, even decades, after arrival the locos still had full sand boxes, last filled during prep for their final duties in service!  We used to light wood fires in the fireboxes to get photographic smoke from the chimneys, never with much success but it kept you warm on winter afternoons...

 

The external condition of the locos was fairly good until the early 70s, by which time the sea air had got under the paintwork and bits started to fall off.  In the mid 60s, there were locos i better external nick at Woodham's than a lot of those still in service!

 

Thanks Johnster I've never looked into how engines were collected, pretty much what I was getting at, you can justify dead engines on layouts if you get the context correct but not something that looks like the dregs of Barry yard in the 1990s 

[The Johnster]

Not even in transit; by that time they were all going by road.  This started very soon after the end of steam while the residue of steam locos were still making their way to the scrappies from the collection points; in late 1970 I was walking down Lake Road West with my mate RH, better known as Dobbin, nice lad and good company but not the sharpest knife in the tray, late one evening after a session in the 'Three Arches' when a Black 5 passed over the A48 by-pass 'Eastern Avenue' bridge, only recently opened, at speed on a low loader followed by another low loader with the tender.  This bridge had formerly carried the TVR Roath Branch, closed in 1968.

 

'Did you see that?' asks Dobbin.  I was well inebriated but not so much as to not take advantage of the situation; 'see what'.  'Steam train went over the bridge'.  'Don't be daft, you want to lay off the Brains SA.  Line was closed three years ago and the last steam was six years ago, you're seeing things.  It's a road now'.  'I'm telling you, there was a steam train went over the bridge, big one'.  'Oh yeah, doth appear ghastly white, did it?'.  By the time we got to Fairoak roundabout, he was somewhat confused about what he'd seen and swore off the SA for at least a week...

[whart57]

On 30/05/2023 at 12:15, Player of trains said:

Forgive me if this one has been posted but as I've just done one myself I've thought a dead engine no matter its form of locomotion can be a bit of a cliché depending on the context of where it is. Especially with the weathered models that can be found on EBay. By depending on context I mean usually some dead hollowed out engine at the back of a yard not necessarily near any engineering facilities that might be stripping it? Well at home on a heritage layout, light railway or engine shed but a bit odd elsewhere. 

 

If modelling a preserved heritage railway in the 1980s of course it would be no more of a cliche than having a station platform, rather a reality

 

[BlackFivesMatter]

Buses on bridges, ho no, never on real life. Oops, Largs, former Glasgow and south western railway terminus. Charles Street over bridge. 

 

The other shot is because it's Friday. 

[JZ]

Not really a cliché, but I have included one of my father's old cars on my previous layouts and sometimes one of mine, hidden behind a station building as it was out of period. The present layout has one of Dad's again, a Citroen Traction Avant, albeit fitted with US style plates. And one of mine, a CX Safari, may be seen lurking behind a depot somewhere.

[Pacific231G]

5 hours ago, JZ said:

Not really a cliché, but I have included one of my father's old cars on my previous layouts and sometimes one of mine, hidden behind a station building as it was out of period. The present layout has one of Dad's again, a Citroen Traction Avant, albeit fitted with US style plates. And one of mine, a CX Safari, may be seen lurking behind a depot somewhere.

John Ahern included most if not all of his veteran cars (one of his great interests in life) on the Madder Valley Railway.  He may well have been one of the first to do so.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

On 18/08/2022 at 01:47, DCB said:

Trouble is Road vehicles seldom stop on Dual carriageway bridges over railways for the entire duration of an exhibition, I know everyone does it but it just looks so wrong to me.

 

On 18/08/2022 at 11:09, Reorte said:

Tricky one really, because no traffic also looks wrong.

 

Yes, I agree with both of you. Yet I needed an overbridge at the end of my scenic section and my friend Al (Remagen) Turner came up with this.

 

 

And, YES, the cement mixer does revolve.

 

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by TEAMYAKIMA

[St. Simon]

Hi,

 

I’m not sure if we’ve covered this, but what about train cliches?

 

I’m thinking of NR Test Trains on modern layouts is probably one of the current train cliches? (I’m only think this in that I’m choosing trains for an exhibition and realised my test train is probably a cliche!)

 

Of course, is the ‘just doing a running in turn’ a cliche on some layouts?

 

Simon

[009 micro modeller]

25 minutes ago, St. Simon said:

Hi,

 

I’m not sure if we’ve covered this, but what about train cliches?

 

I’m thinking of NR Test Trains on modern layouts is probably one of the current train cliches? (I’m only think this in that I’m choosing trains for an exhibition and realised my test train is probably a cliche!)

 

Of course, is the ‘just doing a running in turn’ a cliche on some layouts?

 

Simon

I think we’ve done a bit earlier in the thread about excessive numbers of engineering trains (often bright yellow or similar). Similarly you could have an unrealistically high number of steam railtours (or inter-regional railtours on steam-era layouts, with locos etc. completely out of place amongst the rest of the layout), or things like new trains being delivered/ old ones going for scrap (both of which I have seen in real life, but not all the time).

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I think we’ve done a bit earlier in the thread about excessive numbers of engineering trains (often bright yellow or similar). Similarly you could have an unrealistically high number of steam railtours (or inter-regional railtours on steam-era layouts, with locos etc. completely out of place amongst the rest of the layout), or things like new trains being delivered/ old ones going for scrap (both of which I have seen in real life, but not all the time).

I've never seen a layout with London Underground stock being delivered from Birmingham or Smethwick pulled by a GWR 4-6-0!

It happened fairly regularly in the 60s with new stock orders from BRCW & MetCam.

[Chris M]

6 hours ago, melmerby said:

I've never seen a layout with London Underground stock being delivered from Birmingham or Smethwick pulled by a GWR 4-6-0!

It happened fairly regularly in the 60s with new stock orders from BRCW & MetCam.

The reverse used to happen last decade. On my commute to work I occasionally saw a tube train hauled by a couple of 20s (if I recall correctly) at Solihull station. Modelling that would be adding interest rather than adding a cliche. 

[johnofwessex]

1 hour ago, Chris M said:

The reverse used to happen last decade. On my commute to work I occasionally saw a tube train hauled by a couple of 20s (if I recall correctly) at Solihull station. Modelling that would be adding interest rather than adding a cliche. 

 

No it would be starting a new cliche!  😁

[MarkSG]

11 hours ago, melmerby said:

I've never seen a layout with London Underground stock being delivered from Birmingham or Smethwick pulled by a GWR 4-6-0!

It happened fairly regularly in the 60s with new stock orders from BRCW & MetCam.

 

One obvious reason why it's never modelled is the lack of RTR tube stock suitable for such a formation. And I have a feeling that the lines which carried that formation are rarely modelled as well. 

[SZ]

One cliche I have never seen on a layout, only in real life, is a bird eating a fox (fox sliced in two).

[Metr0Land]

On 04/09/2022 at 16:32, Metr0Land said:

Peugeot 403's appear quite a bit (like Columbo used to drive).  This week's episode had a 4-door estate in the background, quite rare I think?

 

There was an episode called The Golden Fleece which doesn't seem to be available any more.  It had a lot of location shots of French canal towing locos of CGTVN.  Some info here:

https://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/trains/france21.htm

 

 

The Golden Fleece episode is repeated next Sat 8pm on Talking Pictures TV (Sky 328, also on Freeview)

[APOLLO]

How about one of these buses - bridge included !!!!!

 

 

And yes they've built one.

 

 

Brit15