Dapol 142

[justin1985]

Has anyone been brave enough to take one apart and see how they’ve laid out the drive train? Or does it have an exploded view service sheet? (Don’t think Dapol tend to do these?)

 

On the subject of low profile, here is a screen grab of the service sheet from a Märklin Z Gauge ICE power car. I recently bought one of these as a non runner and took it apart to get it working.

 

 

The entire chassis block on this loco is lower than the height of the body below the windows on the N gauge 142. But more importantly it shows how you can very simply drop the bulk of the motor down below the worm needed to drive the bogie/wheels - and STILL incorporate effective two stage reduction gearing.

 

Ironically, for a high speed unit, the Märklin ICE is quite low geared and a good slow runner. The model was released in 1989, I believe! Hardly cutting edge engineering!

 

This mechanism layout could easily have been used to power the 142 - with a modern motor and a mechanism designed along these lines, you could very easily drop the bulk of the motor At least partially into the underframe equipment area, use step-down gearing to transmit the drive to a longitudinal shaft running well below window height, and drive a small worm set on top of the axles. You could easily come up with something akin to the KATO shorty in height, but with lower gearing, using this layout.

 

The relationshiph between the door glazing and the drive axles inevitably means there will be some compromise, but it could have easily been hidden with a discrete plastic cover, rather than a dirty great screw and brass contact!

 

Justin

[chriswrightmk]

Good to hear it runs we especially through points and curves.. Shame about the red cable sticking out as could easily have been obscured.Corridor connections looks good. Liveries look good. Shame if there are errors in body. Wonder if Kernow will commission a West Country version.

[richierich]

The Dapol instruction sheet has an exploded diagram of the model. I have taken a photo on my phone, and hopefully its now on here.

 

If i had more time I’d post some photos and a bit more of a review.

Edited January 24, 2019 by richierich

[steve1023]

Maybe i'm not seeing it, but it does look like a class 142, granted i'm only going by photo's on here but apart from the interior which is just crap, is it really that bad.

[Sprintex]

As justin1985 said they managed it with the Class 156, can't see that rigid axles instead of bogies would make that any more difficult?

 

Just seems like laziness to me.

 

 

Paul

[justin1985]

The Dapol instruction sheet has an exploded diagram of the model. I have taken a photo on my phone, and hopefully its now on here.

 

If i had more time I’d post some photos and a bit more of a review.

Thanks, that's really helpful!

 

If I'm reading the diagram correctly, looks like quite a chunky can motor driving a flywheel and worm on each end, and then a three stage gear reduction connected to each axle.

 

That design presumably achieves good slow running, but forces the motor up within the chassis, rather than allowing it to be set down.

 

The Märklin example in my previous post shows just how simple it would have been to come up with a simple lower profile mechanism.

 

Justin

[TomE]

A few quick photos straight from the box:

 

 

I've also overlaid the plans that Charlie posted on the previous page to see how they compare. It clearly shows that whilst the windows are undersized they are not quite as bad as they look, but the fact that everything has been pushed up on the side is giving it a stretched at the bottom and squashed at the top appearance. The door windows are also too small and too low along the top edge, as they should be more or less level with the top of the main windows. 

 

 

The same issues apply to the front end:

 

 

This also shows the tumblehome is at nowhere near enough of an angle, and contributes to the slab sided look.

 

I have my doubts about the durability of the connector, and one prong of mine was already twisted off to one side meaning there would have been no electrical connection when coupled, so that's had to be bent back into line. It's also dissapointing to see exposed gear chain, which will become a magnet for dust, fluff any any other small particles over time.

 

Looking at the circuitry, you will need two decoders for the lighting to work correctly, but only one if you aren't bothered about the lights and disconnect them. 

 

The motor is not the same 'supercreep' motor as found in Dapol steam engines, but rather a can motor which as already mentioned does have what looks like a very small flywheel. 

 

I haven't had chance to dig out the DC test track yet so can't comment on running quality, but I will do this over the weekend. 

 

The finish is generally good, except for the usual incorrect number font, and it's nice to see a decent shade of warning panel yellow instead of the insipid colour Dapol used in the past. 

 

Of course people will make their own mind up about the model, and many will decide they can live with these issues as it is the only N Gauge Pacer in town.  I'm still undecided whether to keep mine and see if there is anything that can be done to rectify some of the problems, or sell it on. 

 

Tom.  

Edited January 25, 2019 by TomE

[richierich]

In comparison with the drawings, looks like the model has been maybe lifted by a scale 6” (1mm) maybe? Because the interior hasn’t been modelled, maybe the body side compromise wasn’t necessary?

 

The issue with the door windows, I suspect can be explained by these looking to be separate mouldings that plug into the body. To moulding a really thin section to get the door heaight would probably lead to more scrap and more difficult assembly. Although this could have been moulded in clear plastic maybe, but usually a problem with paint coverage to remove the opacity.

 

It’s a difficult one. If this was a 4mm model, I’m fairly certain another manufacturer would have a go at producing a 142, there is a sufficient market to support it. But in 2mm it taken 10 years to get this far. So plenty of opportunity for Farish or maybe Revolution to have stepped in and offered their interpretation of a 142. But nobody did. Personally I always feel Farish do a much better job with finer tooling of detail than Dapol. Although models like the Class 56 and from my experience so far, the running qualities have a slight edge over Farish,

 

It makes me think as 2mm modellers we’re going to have accept the Dapol model warts and all or not have a 142 in your collection. Which for a north of England modeller is not really possible for the mid 80s to current day. Suppose its a similar situation to anyone who models suburban London and South East operations and EMU models.

 

I’d love to be proved wrong and see someone like Revolution offer a Pacer in 2mm . . . .

Edited January 24, 2019 by richierich

[richbrummitt]

Useful post Tom. I haven't taken mine out of the box yet. The pictures suggest that something might be done and if not it's like the real thing in that it's ugly. If I ever build a layout in mind it will provide the variety in appearance from the 150s and 156 that I already stashed in case. 

[TomE]

It makes me think as 2mm modellers we’re going to have accept the Dapol model warts and all or not have a 142 in your collection. Which for a north of England modeller is not really possible for the mid 80s to current day. Suppose its a similar situation to anyone who models suburban London and South East operations and EMU models.

 

I’d love to be proved wrong and see someone like Revolution offer a Pacer in 2mm . . . .

 

 

If you need a pacer (as far as anyone needs a model train) then you have no choice but to go with the Dapol model. If you would only like a pacer then it becomes more of a question of whether you can overlook the errors. 

 

4mm modellers are in the lucky position of having a Realtrack Class 142 on the horizon, which no doubt will be just as good as their Class 143. Since one of the Realtrack team is an N Gauge modeller, and they are branching out into N Gauge rolling stock, I suppose there is a very remote possibility we could see the 143 in N in the future perhaps, but I doubt it could be done now for anywhere near the price of the Dapol model considering how far standards have come on in N Gauge since the Dapol model was first announced. 

 

Tom. 

[Gareth Collier]

I purchased a Worsley Works 142 etch about a week before Dapol announced their RTR version so it has remained an unbuilt kit. I may have to dig it out

[MGR Hooper!]

From the CR Signal's facebook page...

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1968244610148344&id=1507073106265499

 

Hopefully the link works??

 

PS: You DO NOT need a Facebook account to view the posts.

[TomE]

A retailer needing to sell them isn't going to turn around and say these are rubbish, don't buy them, are they....

 

Tom.  

[D9020 Nimbus]

Well, Realtrack Models strongly suggested, when the 144 was announced in OO, that they'd do an N gauge version. Seems to have quietly been forgotten.

[Armchair Modeller]

Mine arrived this morning. After all the comments made here and elsewhere I was dreading it, thinking I might have to send it back. Now I have seen it in the flesh I shall definitely keep it, but with regrets. It is almost good enough - interior detail apart.

 

At first sight, some things do seem like they would be easy to fix, include closer coupling.

 

I can maybe just about understand the undersized angle at the bottom of the body. After all, the 153 has a similar problem and I have lived with that. A lot of the errors are just sloppy though - like the size of the cab windows and the door windows. Difficult to forgive, or understand.

 

The interior needs closer investigation. I think the profile of everything could be reduced to below window level, but I need to think awhile before doing anything. It should not be necessary to do this.

 

Making a top class model out of the Worsley Works etch would, I think, be very challenging for most people. Would all the extra effort involved be worthwhile? My gut feeling is not. Much better to put some of that skill into the Dapol model to bring it up to being an acceptable, though never a perfect model.

[MGR Hooper!]

A retailer needing to sell them isn't going to turn around and say these are rubbish, don't buy them, are they....

 

Tom.

I don't think anyone said a reatiler was going to say they are rubbish. Nor has anyone hinted at a retailer having to do so.

 

CR Signals have listed their services to improve the model. I shared it out of general interest.

[chriswrightmk]

I don't think anyone said a reatiler was going to say they are rubbish. Nor has anyone hinted at a retailer having to do so.

 

CR Signals have listed their services to improve the model. I shared it out of general interest.

 

I wonder what other DMUs couple up to Class 142s in real life and if they can in model form?

[TomE]

I wonder what other DMUs couple up to Class 142s in real life and if they can in model form?

 

They've been seen coupled to Classes 150, 153 & 156 before. In model form you could use the Dapol Classes 153 & 156 as they share the same outer couplings. The Farish Class 150 would require some modification, or vice versa, to join the two, but it's not impossible with a little work. 

 

https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/MAKING-TRACKS/SECOND-GENERATION-DIESEL-MULTIPLE-UNITS/i-S5Pj3cH/A

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Northern_Rail_Class_142%2C_142071%2C_Eccleston_Park_railway_station_%28geograph_3795616%29.jpg

 

https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2498/3872322366_3ca3d27633_b.jpg

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Northern_Rail_Class_142.jpg

 

Tom.  

[maq1988]

Sounds daft, but anyone happy to do a photo from about a foot away? See how it looks then from sort of a 'viewing distance'.

 

Would be good to have something to show scale, like a coin. Close up shots can be quite cruel I guess.

Edited January 25, 2019 by maq1988

[richierich]

They've been seen coupled to Classes 150, 153 & 156 before. In model form you could use the Dapol Classes 153 & 156 as they share the same outer couplings. The Farish Class 150 would require some modification, or vice versa, to join the two, but it's not impossible with a little work. 

 

https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/MAKING-TRACKS/SECOND-GENERATION-DIESEL-MULTIPLE-UNITS/i-S5Pj3cH/A

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Northern_Rail_Class_142%2C_142071%2C_Eccleston_Park_railway_station_(geograph_3795616).jpg

 

https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2498/3872322366_3ca3d27633_b.jpg

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Northern_Rail_Class_142.jpg

 

Tom.

 

 

In Yorkshire Humberside area you could see a 142 coupled to:-

 

141

142

143

144

150/1

150/2

153

155

156

158

 

Not sure if any have worked in multiple with a 170, but theoretically possible.

[richierich]

Managed to obtain a Regional Railways 142/1 today, perfect for me, a Neville Hill allocated unit, and another period livery. So here are some photos:-

[ash39]

Has anyone fitted dcc to one yet? I'm keen yo see what the lighting looks like.

 

I think I read somewhere that both marker lights are illuminated?

 

Must admit I'm more comfortable with it now I know the 'no gap' coridoor connections are included.

 

Once someone cracks how to fully hide the internal wiring and fit some kind of interior, I think it'll be more than acceptable. The shape issues are minor to my eyes.

[chriswrightmk]

Thanks for info on 142s working with other units. Shows how useful this site is and what info is about  I think I have seen a Locomotives IlIustrated on Pacers and a book has just been published

[TomE]

Just a look at the mechanism now i've had the lid off:

 

 

In purely mechanical terms, this mechanism might be the models lone redeeming feature. It was smooth straight from the box, and whilst not as quiet as the coreless motor used by Bachmann, it also doesn't sound as though it's grinding rocks like the 153 & 156. It may be a little on the low geared side, but then these things are not renowned for their speed or acceleration!

 

My only concerns are the durability of the inter vehicle connector (which appears to be almost identical in design to the Hornby version on their OO model) if the model is being repeatedly coupled & uncoupled, and the exposed gearing becoming a magnet for dust, fluff and all the other usual layout detritus. 

 

The unpowered car is identical, just without the motor and gear train.

 

Tom. 

Edited January 26, 2019 by TomE

[Neil]

OK the model does have its deficiancies but comparing the photos in posts 307 (Tom) and 321 (Rich) it seems to my eyes that the units look better against a darker background, the everything squashed to the top effect is lessened. It'll be interesting to see what one on a layout looks like. Even better to see one that has been weathered; I have an idea that gunge on the lower bodyside would help enhance the tumblehome and by adding another longitudinal  tone help alter the proportions.