RMweb Gold LH&JC Posted January 21, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2011 To start a week off (only just a week after I went back to University! I'm getting the most out of my tuition fees!) I went to Shildon today to see the museum in general and the Turkish 8f No.45170 in 'ex Turkey' condition, worthy of note are that patches on the cladding and the repairs on the front bufferbeam, she'd obviously had a heavy shunt at some point and as LMS spares were hardly available off shelf it looks like the bent ends of the beam were cut off and 2 new bits were welded on, hence the unique front bufferbeam. I believe that she will be used on the NYMR following restoration at Ian Story's works. Never mind the rubbish, here are a couple of photos of her and a link to more. http://william.fotop...t/c1935139.html I'll be adding the photos from the rest of the visit in a little bit (for the 2 people who might give a hoot) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I love the ex-KPEV (Prussian)-style smokebox door and hinges! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold LH&JC Posted January 23, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2011 It does make her stand out, I wonder if most of the Turkish modifications will be kept, apart from the repaired bufferbeam of course! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 That notice on the tender refers to the water in the tank being poisonous, I think. In short, "not drinking water". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I love the ex-KPEV (Prussian)-style smokebox door and hinges! Ditto. Plus the other germanic touch. The (rather bent) wire handhold/steps under the buffers. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluex5 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Put it back to standard (i.e. BR condition) IMHO it looks awful in it's current guise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Hadyn Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 It never was a BR engine... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben racey Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I'd love to see it kept in turkish condition, is'nt the one on the GWSR currently in it's turkish guise as well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 doesnt it make you you happy that so many british engines are at work all over the world, also that bit-by-bit we are bringing retired ones home for safe keeping Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffles Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I'd love to see it kept in turkish condition, is'nt the one on the GWSR currently in it's turkish guise as well? It is, yes. 45156 I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 45156 Posted January 25, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2011 It is, yes. 45156 I think. Are you sure on that number - 45156 was a Black 5 which never survived - the 8F number range was 48xxx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffles Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I did say I think and you're right. I'm not sure. It's 45160. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 doesnt it make you you happy that so many british engines are at work all over the world, Were at work, most of them are retired now and replaced by American diesels or something else, even in the UK we've gone the route of importing our new mainline stuff. Are you sure on that number - 45156 was a Black 5 which never survived - the 8F number range was 48xxx 45xxx would be the Turkish number it had always carried. These never got BR numbers so if they do go pseudo BR they will need a new number on the end of the range. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 45xxx would be the Turkish number it had always carried. These never got BR numbers so if they do go pseudo BR they will need a new number on the end of the range. Even better, make it into a pseudo LNER O6 Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr45144 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Put it back to standard (i.e. BR condition) IMHO it looks awful in it's current guise. Please don't - she tells the story of the 8F much better this way, looks gorgeous and we have more than enough of Staniers finest in BR livery. Kev Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I would like to see one of these two 8Fs restored to there as built WD condition if they where delivered with air brake gear and cylinders then keep them on. It just shows the differences between the 8 Fs instead of picking a non existent BR no to put on it. I wonder if they where painted sand colour or plain grey? All the pics I've got of WD versions are in black and White but the loco isn't painted black. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Put it back to standard (i.e. BR condition) IMHO it looks awful in it's current guise. And I hope this doesn't happen as it would be such a waste - there's surely more to preservation than this? I went to a slideshow by Colin Garrett a few years ago which the FNRM hosted - wonderful evening! He said we don't do enough to preserve our industrial heritage - overseas were countless examples of British built locomotives being cut up when in this country preservationists were restoring yet another Black 5 or ex-Barry Buillied. Restoring this loco to a BR guise would be such a waste and would destroy a part of our heritage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I have to ask, with at least four or five in BR condition (the LMS liveried one exempted) and in steam this year, why the need for another? Surely the history of these 8Fs is more interesting as a result of their extended stay abroad? I personally love the look of the two engines, I hope they are restored to their Turkish glory and fly the flag for our overseas exports. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold LH&JC Posted February 13, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 13, 2011 Well as she's apparantly going to be based on the NYMR after restoration it would make a good war weekend with her in Turkish/WD condition with Dame Vera Lynn & 2253 operating. I really doubt that it will ever happen but it would be good! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJP Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Here's hoping it gets kept in it's Turkish guise (although hopefully a little cleaner than it is now!) Restoring it to "BR Condition" would be a ridiculous decision, the loco has a story or two to tell the way it looks currently, and erasing that for a look that it never had would spoil it entirely! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted February 13, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 13, 2011 I agree with the 'keep it in Turkish condition' camp. It would look good double-heading with a USA 2-8-0! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I went to a slideshow by Colin Garrett a few years ago which the FNRM hosted - wonderful evening! He said we don't do enough to preserve our industrial heritage - overseas were countless examples of British built locomotives being cut up when in this country preservationists were restoring yet another Black 5 or ex-Barry Buillied. Could this the same Colin Garratt who, in a video entitled Around The World In Search Of Steam" once paid some bemused Turkish fitters to get an oxy-acetylene torch and remove the "cowcatcher" from a TCDD 8F and make it look more "British" for a still photograph? (He frequently "touched up" the paint on dumped locomotives for vsual impact). Personally, I would never consider altering a locomotive's appearance for photography for any reason, or alter a shot in any way (beyond perhaps bending a few branches or saplings to give an unobstructed view at the time) and have even refused offers on a couple of occasions to move a locomotive to a "better" spot or de-clutter it's environment. I am similarly opposed to digital retouching that interferes with the historical accuracy of an image (unless the changes are so obvious to the point of silliness - false liveries, for example). So, I may have digressed a little, but it partly explains why I'm very much in the "keep it in its Turkish condition" camp. We have enough examples of 8Fs in "Britsh condition" (including the much-travelled ex-WD 307/BR 48773 at the Engine House, Highley). True, there are a couple of examples preserved in Turkey in "Turkish condition" (e.g. 45161 at Çamlik), but they do very little over there to educate the Great British Public (and especially the next generation) of this important piece of our history. Secondly, I don't subscribe to the parochiality that considers "foreign" railways as inferior to our own, their histories less important than ours. The 8F was a part of Turkish history and played a part in the Middle East theatre during WW2. As such, it deserves to represent that history, as well as enfocing the lesson that the British Steam locomotive industry ranked third in the world in terms of total production - and this is an excample of how these particular locomotives actually looked while serving abroad. I mourn that the only WD Austerity 2-8-0 to make it into preservation was one of only two examples that constituted the Swedish (SJ) class G11, extensively modified for operation in that country, but de-modified to become British again. Sadly there are no examples left to demonstrate the Swedish condition, nor indeed from the many examples that found their way to Holland after the war. Well, I suppose you could always have an SJ G11 pilotting a TCDD 45151 series, both in pseudo-British Railways order, on the NYMR... Incidentally, TCDD 45160 (the loco on the Gloucs and Warks) was built as WD 348, NBL 24638/1940. Despite what Wikipaedia says, I cannot find a reference in Tourrett to it having been loaned to the LMS before being sent for service overseas - though I'm no LMS expert. It has also appeared in various false guises in preservation - which of course can only lead to confusion as to its true history. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Could this the same Colin Garratt who, in a video entitled "Finding Steam Around The World" once paid some bemused Turkish fitters to get an oxy-acetylene torch and remove the "cowcatcher" from a TCDD 8F and make it look more "British" for a still photograph? (He frequently "touched up" the paint on dumped locomotives for vsual impact). The very same! I have the video somewhere too - no idea when I lasted watched it though! Must admit that I don't really agree with things like this, but I suppose that whilst he was recording the last of British steam (and steam in general) he was also trying to compose visually interesting photos too. It becomes a debate on whther his shots were art or record shots. Even if many started as the former, they now must surely be the latter? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neil Posted February 13, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 13, 2011 Another vote for the keep it Turkish camp, and I'd really like to see it kept scruffy too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Well they bought two of them you can have one of each.. Leaving a Turkish one in the NRM or somewhere is is makes sense if you want to tell the story of WD engines but having it operating on the GCR Windcutters for example is probably not as profitable for preservation as just giving it a new BR number and faking it a bit.. Isn't there already a Turkish one in original condition somewhere in the UK? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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