Kinsley Colliery - Project Update

[Gallows Close]

Hello Guy,

 

What make is the dummy tail light on The HAA?

 

Thanks for your comments. The tail lights are from Springside Models.

 

Returning to the RLB - In the past few days I have re-built the clam shell doors from the prototype a couple of posts back in brass to give them some durability. I have also built a linkage from the motor to the doors using brass rod inside some tubing. Sadly in the course of testing, the Fulgurex motor died, but it has been replaced with a Tortoise motor. The replacement motor is smoother and quieter, so I should have used that in the first place!

 

I have spent today setting up the sensors for the automatic loading operation with some good results. I will upload some photos and hopefully a video of the loading process shortly.

 

Thanks for looking in,

Chris.

[Jason Fisher]

Chris, the most common shovels for loading coal hoppers was CAT 950, 966 and 980s, probably C and D variants for early 90s, F's and G's and upto the current H & K series now. The only one of these available in 87th is a Norscot Cat 966G, introduced mid-late 90s so would fit in with the FHH 66 etc, but to be honest unless you work with plant ( I'm a fitter for Finning UK) and dont mind then you'd probably get away with it. One question though, how does the Volvo scale with the hoppers? I have a Siku Liebherr 580 which sits OK with them

Jason

[Gallows Close]

Hello Jason,

 

Thanks for the information.

 

One question though, how does the Volvo scale with the hoppers?

 

Good question, I'll take a couple of photos. I've only used it as a prop so far, it would be good to see. A couple of questions for you though, in your experience were Volvo shovels ever used by British Coal? Do you know what RJB and UK Coal prefer to use?

 

With the weather being OK today I moved the model out in to the garden to take a short film of the operation of the RLB doors.

 

http://youtu.be/3O0WFXXLUUc

 

Unfortunately the bright sunlight played havoc with the infra red sensors and my proposed loading demonstration will have to wait until the cladding covers the lower parts of the building.

 

Whilst I had the camera out I took another couple of shots.

 

http://youtu.be/nlwbeqesKN8

 

 

 

With the ground to the left of the headframe in the upper photo as you view it above I can now start to plan out the location and dimensions of the coal preparation plant and blending bunkers. The photos give the model quite a depth, but from from to back the whole thing is only five feet.

 

Thanks for looking in,

Chris.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Gallows Close

[d winpenny]

some great progress there, loving the videos and photos especially the grid action and proves that the older Hornby versions still have a place on layouts

 

david

Edited April 8, 2012 by d winpenny

[Gallows Close]

A quick and dirty look at how the four wheeled shovel stacks up against the hoppers. The photo in the background shows what I'm trying to recreate.

 

 

All in all I think as long as I can back-date it a few years it should look OK.

 

Thanks,

Chris.

[Grimleygrid]

Very impressive Chris, the RLB door operation is class in a glass, great work Sir.

 

I agree with David the Grid action is quality, always nice to see a 56 on HAAs.

 

The photo of the 58 showing the whole area really gives you an idea of the scale of your layout, the pit heads, RLB and Powerhouse just capture the look of a working colliery, love it! Looking forward to your next update.

[MRDBLUE17]

Hi Chris,

 

Great to see your updates the 37's look good and the work on the rapid loader is fantastic. Glad to see the videos and the shot of the whole scene is very impressive.

 

Look forward to seeing more

Mark

[Jason Fisher]

Thats not a bad size against the hoppers Chris. Done some digging (no pun intended ) through my plant books and on the whole the L150 hasnt really changed a great deal through the 90s until the current series which is a good bit different with large rear wheel arches, so get some coal dust splattered on her, some greasy marks round the bucket pins and unless anyone is a diehard plant nut like myself they'll be none the wiser lol. Working on coal shovels is a nightmare, just done a host of repairs to one coaldust gets everywhere, so you can go as crazy as you like with the weathering on it as I've seen examples that are clean and ones that you can barely make out the colours on. I'm getting some plant models together for an opencast scene although to be honest the correct ones for UK opencasting arent really available but as long as they "look" right then thats the main thing

Edited April 9, 2012 by Jason Fisher

[Jason Fisher]

ps daylight shots look ace

[Gallows Close]

Hello All,

 

A wet bank holiday Monday, and with it the chance for some more modelling. I decided to work on my rake of HAAs, however after re-wheeling 16 wagons and building sixteen pairs of instanter couplings my sanity was in serious danger. So to rectify my mental state I decided on a quickie project. Here is my prototype coal tram/dram (I never know which) outside the Power Hall being pushed away from the upcast shaft having just returned to the surface. It is just a couple of bits of Plasticard and a pair of Farish N scale wheels.

 

 

I'll make another three, plus a flat car now that I have the prototype. The N gauge track will be buried to rail height in due course - This will give the buildings a foundation as well.

 

Hi Alex,

 

the pit heads, RLB and Powerhouse just capture the look of a working colliery,

 

Thanks - I'm busy with planning the coal prep plant to fill the gap to the left of the headframes. I'm hoping the final impression will be reminiscent of a South Yorkshire mine in the late eighties / early nineties. You'll get a really good impression once I start linking the various parts together with conveyors in due course.

 

Hello Mark, thanks for your comments - I wish my wife would view it in the same way as you and the others here on RM Web!

 

Hello Jason,

 

Thank you for sharing your research. The L150 suffers a little on its reach, but I put that down to it being only a model rather than too much of a scaling issue. It seems to sit well alongside the hoppers. I will pose it on a small pad loading area after the RLB to show waste shale being loaded for disposal. I'll be busy with the shovel, and a couple of other road vehicles in time - I promise It'll be proper dirty when done.

 

Thats not a bad size against the hoppers Chris. Done some digging (no pun intended ) through my plant books and on the whole the L150 hasnt really changed a great deal through the 90s until the current series ....... I'm getting some plant models together for an opencast scene although to be honest the correct ones for UK opencasting arent really available but as long as they "look" right then thats the main thing

 

I'm looking forward to hearing more of your opencast project.

 

Thanks again for looking in,

Chris.

[Gallows Close]

Hello RM Webbers,

 

I have spent the last few days building the Blending Bunkers. These cylindrical bulk tanks contained the various grades of coal separated from the run of mine raw coal by the washery. They would then be blended together to make the final market grade coal product which then would by transported by conveyor to the rapid loader.

 

 

The idea at the moment is to finish the RLB and blending bunkers together as they share a common construction, and paint them both at the same time. I have also built and rigged up a covered conveyor between the two buildings to see how it will look - I don't think Its too bad.

 

 

The RLB is awaiting cladding on the lower half - I'm trying to work out how to make the centre panels removeable so I can get to the sensors.....

 

 

Fianlly a couple for the gallery.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for looking in,

Chris.

[Poindexter]

The buildings are of EPIC proportions! Fantastic work Chris, The 08 looks absolutely dwarfed.

 

Guy

[Grimleygrid]

Hi Chris, this just keeps getting better and better. The photo with the digger in the middle really gives you an indication of the shear scale of your model, love it!

 

Great modelling, you have captured it perfectly. Just need a few grids on HAAs and that will be the icing on the cake!

 

Your 31 is quality!

[kryten65]

as loading shovels go, Shinsei did a cat 992c in 1/75, it's a touch on the big side for a pit, think more quarry opencast, but if memory serves me they used to have a big shovel 988 size at the selby rail head on the stockpiles

 

there's one on Ebay as i type this, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SHINSEI-CATERPILLAR-/150804232807?pt=UK_ToysGames_DiecastVehicles_DiecastVehicles_JN&hash=item231ca1fa67

[Gallows Close]

Thanks for the info '65 - I did have a look at the shovel on E-Bay, but it is (as you say) a little large for my application. I'm still looking at backdating the Volvo for the model. I will team it with a typical late '80's 8 legger tipper to create a little cameo on the layout.

 

In the mean time I've put a coat of paint on the rapid loader to try and represent the cladding and translucent panels as per the original. I'm not happy with the first attempt which was airbrushed and brush painted on. So I have decided to have a go with some cans of spray acrylic in different colours to see how that comes out. If we get the weather (don't start me!) I'll get chance over the weekend to spray and post some photos.

 

I've also picked up another batch of H profile plastics in order to finish the lattice work on the blending bunkers - so again I'm awaiting a painting window! It's got to happen soon as I'm moving house in eight weeks - And this time the model will survive and continue at the new location......

 

Thanks for looking in,

Chris.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Gallows Close

[Pugsley]

Thanks for the info '65 - I did have a look at the shovel on E-Bay, but it is (as you say) a little large for my application.

Not necessarily, I've seen a photo somewhere (unfortunately I can't remember where) of a couple of Clark Michigan 475's being used to load MGR coal wagons. They had a 12 cubic metre bucket, so could load 12-15 tonnes of coal at once. There's some info here, for interest:

http://www.volvoce.c...higan 475C.aspx

 

I'm not familiar with the CAT 992C, but it looks to be the same kind of size as the Michigan loader.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Pugsley

[Gallows Close]

Thanks Pugsley, that certainly is a beast of a machine, and very suited to pad loading of MGR's.

 

There has not been much progress at Kinsley as the focus has been more on packing up for our approaching house move, however I have finished painting the cladding on the RLB and the blending bunkers. The idea is to represent a building with translucent panels to allow in natural light - I hope it has worked out.

 

 

There is a brick base to add below the bottom of the cladding, and the whole thing needs weathering of course.

 

This will be the last modelling update for now, as the packing boxes are calling. The next time Kinsley is out will be in the new railway room..

 

Thanks for looking in,

Chris.

[Gallows Close]

I received the keys for my new house last week, and in and amongst all the other jobs going on I thought I'd post a photo of Kinsley's new home. The railway room (as I'm grandly calling it) is 3.5m x 3.5m.

 

For now, the model will be housed in there as the shed is, but for 2013 I'm intnding to line it out and make the whole place much more suited to modelling all year round. It will do, and it is certainly much better than the damp garage I've had for the last three years to work in. The ghostly figure reflected in the glass is me.

 

 

As you can see, the controller's chair is already in situ. The layout itself is still at our other house for now, as I discovered tonight that it is too long at 2.5m to fit in to my friend's van! A new soulution will have to be found.

 

Hoping to be able to show the model in place on my next post, but for now I'm more than satisfied with at last having a true modelling space.

 

Best wishes,

Chris.

[Gallows Close]

Hello RM Webbers,

 

The first coal train ran last night since moving house - And it turned out a pair of Choppers..... I was on hand with the camera to record the moment.

 

 

 

The slow load up.

 

 

The loaded train re-joins the main line.

 

Hope to get started again with the Rapid Loader soon, but for the next few weeks I'll be busy making the new railway room more homely.

 

Thanks for looking in,

Chris.

[d winpenny]

Absolutely superb looking forward to some more shots soon

 

David

[Grimleygrid]

Excellent Chris, nice to see a pair of Choppers at Kingsley Colliery.

[synthnut]

Hi,

I've been follwing your thread here and most impressed with your build, truely mammoth! I came accross it whilst searcing for info on rapid loaders and also the unusual signalling I've seen around these too.

I've been away from the hobby rather a long time, but am planning a reasonable sized loft layour featuring a colliery and a coal fired powerstation, so HAAs rule!

 

How have you found the loading mechanism so far? I had plans to use a horizontal auger in a tube at the bottom of the hoppers, possibly up inside and then dummy clam doors. That way I figured I could meter the amount into the wagons with a little more control.

 

To keep my kids a bit entertained too, I was planning on running some not so prototypical Hornby operating ore wagons with this perhaps as well as a decent rake of HAAs as I have the Hornby drop bridge. Need to perfect some working coal conveyors now too!!!

I've modded an old Hornby 08 with a reduction-box motor to give an ultra-slow creep (the first version had a top speed of a scale 6mph, but the newer attempt will be about 20), but would like to get my old Lima class 20s geared down perhaps as they have way more traction!

 

Does anyone have an insight to the signalling on these lines? This is the type of unit: http://www.flickr.co...rie/6195484831/

One can just be seen in the video erlier in the thread too. Despite some trawling, I've failed to find details on these odd beasts!

 

Keep up the good work...

 

TTFN,

Ben

Edited September 10, 2012 by synthnut

[Gallows Close]

Hello Ben,

 

Thanks for your post, and the kind coments within. Your message is timely as I have been thinking about the RLB again after more or less settling in to our new home. I opted for the clam shell doors because that is exactly what the real thing uses, there have been however a number of niggly problems with the set up. I will try and explain.

 

I had real difficulty in finding a suitable coal substitiute. Initially I attempted to use real coal, however grinding and sieving enough for a 36 wagon HAA train was really triresome. I also had some concerns about the fine coal dust - It got literally everywhere! I then tried a very fine lignite powder, which we use at work. This was a really good facimilie of the fine power station coal I intended to emulate, however there were difficulties in getting it to flow correctly through the bunker. It tended to want to bind together despite being totally dry. I finally settled on a fine decorative black sand, which although not fine enough for power station coal is a reasonable representation and flows through the bunker a treat! The sand is available cheaply from the garden centre.

 

I wanted automation. I figured (correctly) that as the model train loads up the loco will begin to work harder to move the train through the loader, and thus require really careful throttle control to maintain a constant speed. As the layout is only operated by one person, I felt that controlling the train was all important, and that the clam shell doors could be automatic. I have got to a stage where the operation is reasonable, by using an IRDOT control board from Heathcote Electronics. I used a board with a delay function, as you need to open the doors as the wagon arrived beneath the loader, and close them before it leaves - A straight forward detection leads to a massive spill on the track, not least because the rear of the wagon seems to fill up really rapidly as the depth shallows. The same occurs with HHA wagons too. I do not know whether to persevere with this, or may be I should go for a manual control with a small camera mounted inside the bunker??

 

The auger idea sounds interesting with some kind of metering, but I think it may lead to an uneven loading as I have had with gravity loading. With a steady flow the load depth will be shallow at the front of the wagon and overfilled at the rear. Ideally the flow should be fast to start and slow down as the wagon fills and moves forward.

 

I'm also interested to see how you tackle conveyors. I'd love to have a working conveyor from the pit head skip plant to the preliminary grading plant!

 

I do have the drawings for the RLB at Gascoigne Wood if they are of any use to you?

 

Thanks again for your message, best wishes,

Chris.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Gallows Close

[synthnut]

Hi Chris,

 

I think any automated loading is far from simple! Whilst I'm really only at the homework stage, it's a fascinating area, made somewhat harder by the lack of clear info on them so far. I think it may be time to buy the book, though I don't know what sort of areas it covers?

 

For the loading aspect, my thoughts on using an auger to meter out the material was to give a little more control. Loading HAAs I thought that a speed control profile would allow for that last bit as it fills the final portion might help. For detail, I might add some slightly more cosmetic doors but do the actual flow regulatioj with the auger inside the bunker.

I looked at the IRDOT boards and wondered about those but was also considering RFID to avoid trying to fill the loco perhaps!

 

I can well imagine that finding a suitable coal substitute material a real challenge! The prototypical fine pulverised coal would be very fine dust and a nightmare! I used to have a quantity of fine black rutile sand which I used in my youth for making roads on my layout. This looks good, but is very dense and I doubt a loco would be able to haul a decent rake of hoppers with this stuff in!?

As I also intend to run some of the old Hornby (R.232/R.732) trap-door hoppers I have to consider a material that won't fall though the gaps in the doors! I might model a small steelworks too perhaps, then I can use a larger "ore" and get away with it wit those.

 

I'm going to lash up an auger system anyhow and see just how it behaves and what materials it can handle too...

 

The conveyor is a bit hair-brained again, prompted by seeing the nasty plastic overscale (discontinued) Hornby devices and the high prices they seem to command on the *bay. A prototype conveyor is very dished in section, which I think will be very tricky to obtain in scale somehow.

I was toying with using miniature toothed belts too, but I think the material will just fall off the sides! Bycycle inner tube material perhaps, hmm, maybe?

Then I was back to the Auger concept, but that would mean all covered conveyor ways, though for my mid-seventies layout that probably would be OK.

 

Having done some more research on signalling, I'm looking to build some "Toton" indicators to include along the Rapid Loader line too. There seems to be very little info on these creep indicators that I've found so far.

 

I'd be most interested to see any plans of the real thing for sure, I did have a trawl about but not to any avail.

 

My next brain teaser is how to model the parabolic curve of powerstation cooling towers.... ;-)

 

TTFN,

 

Ben (not sleeping, but thinking of layout plans at 01:40am)

[Gallows Close]

Hello Ben,

 

I've PM the RLB drawings to you. I have lots of material on surface plant and underground plant collected over a long period of time, so shout if you have a specific request. You might also try the mining museum at Cap House Colliery in Wakefield - their library staff are extremely helpful and their service was free. http://www.ncm.org.uk/home

 

The below sketch shows a cross section through a 42" trunk conveyor (from H07 Loader Gate at Hatfield). The design is simple, but it does show how depressed the centre of these conveyors are. Most surface conveyors are elevated in some way, which makes them interesting constructions, and all the more challenging to make work!

 

 

I'll have a look in the signalling handbook for the Toton indicators, but there are way better qualified people on here to explain signalling.

 

Best wishes,

Chris.