What would you like to see in preservation?

[Unknown Warrior]

As a matter of urgency I would like to see a big push to save the pre-grouping wooden coaches rotting away in sidings all over the country. Get them undercover and do basic conservation work so that they can then be fully restored when finance becomes available. A few more years and many of them will have past the point of no return. Many already have!

 

A preserved HST should be opperated on the mainline. The AC electric group are getiing their locos onto the mainline and turning in good performances.

 

Finally I would like to see a new build Midland Railway Johnson 0-4-4T. Would be great for preserved lines!

[Invicta]

As a matter of urgency I would like to see a big push to save the pre-grouping wooden coaches rotting away in sidings all over the country. Get them undercover and do basic conservation work so that they can then be fully restored when finance becomes available. A few more years and many of them will have past the point of no return. Many already have!

 

A preserved HST should be opperated on the mainline. The AC electric group are getiing their locos onto the mainline and turning in good performances.

 

Finally I would like to see a new build Midland Railway Johnson 0-4-4T. Would be great for preserved lines!

 

Definitely! Victorian non-corridors and 6-wheelers might not always be as useful as Mk1s or 'Big Four' era corridor coaches for day-to-day operation, but there are some wonderful historic treasures sitting in sidings and it would be criminal for some of these to be lost. You only have to look at the Quad-Art set on the NNR, the Bluebell's Metropolitans etc to see what can be achieved.

 

Steam Railway magazine featured the four GCR Barnums at Loughborough this month- imagine how spectacular these will look when they're finished (especially if the GCR could persuade the NRM to let Butler-Henderson out again...)

http://www.gcr-rollingstocktrust.co.uk/news_output.asp?id=236&checkSource=stock

[coachmann]

I agree. They takes money but I'd like to see at least one of these GWR Toplight coaches restored to running order. We see the correct GW locos on branchlines nowadays but the correct coaches would be something else.

[Adam]

I agree. They takes money but I'd like to see at least one of these GWR Toplight coaches restored to running order. We see the correct GW locos on branchlines nowadays but the correct coaches would be something else.

 

Like this you mean?

 

http://www.gw-svr-a.org.uk/3930.html

 

Adam

 

[coachmann]

Like this you mean?

 

http://www.gw-svr-a.org.uk/3930.html

 

Superb! I knew nothing of this. What an experience it must be riding in this coach. Hats off also to the people involved in its lengthy rebuilding and restoration.....And of course the painter!

 

And yes, I remember watching that play 'The Signalman' with Denholme Elliot.

 

Larry G.

[Guest jim s-w]

Hi All

 

What I would like to see is less rusting hulks taking up valuable space time and money when we already have others of the same class or type preserved. I mean some of our preserved railways look more like scrap yards these days! I am a great fan of class 50's but why so many in preservation? AS long as we have a couple in tip top condition send the rest for scrap and pour efforts into getting other rare stuff properly saved. Another thing I would like to see is preserved stuff in the liveries they actually carried and not some ficticious livery that just happens to be the owners favourite. I wonder if this is a result of having too much of one type so the owners need to do something to stand out? Whatever, I dont like it!

 

Asked to pick one thing though it has to be the APT-E back in working order. Its a whole type of propulsion (gas turbine I mean) that AFAIK is lost to history.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

['CHARD]

Hi All

 

What I would like to see is less rusting hulks taking up valuable space time and money when we already have others of the same class or type preserved. I mean some of our preserved railways look more like scrap yards these days! I am a great fan of class 50's but why so many in preservation? AS long as we have a couple in tip top condition send the rest for scrap and pour efforts into getting other rare stuff properly saved. Another thing I would like to see is preserved stuff in the liveries they actually carried and not some ficticious livery that just happens to be the owners favourite. I wonder if this is a result of having too much of one type so the owners need to do something to stand out? Whatever, I dont like it!

 

Asked to pick one thing though it has to be the APT-E back in working order. Its a whole type of propulsion (gas turbine I mean) that AFAIK is lost to history.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

I'm with you on the subject of demics, Jim. It applies to a few classes these days, and it's not that by hoarding them we're between us creating an alternative strategic reserve, nor can by saving another 37 (other classes are available) we somehow turn back the clock on the West Highland/ Cambrian/ GEML etc, and pretend that the Locoshed Books after 1993 never happened, with all those horrid gaps where favourite engines used to be.

 

Several years ago I sat on a panel at an NRM event, at which we were asked could preservation carry on its then current trajectory, the end result of which being what you describe: too many rusting assets turning irretrievably into liabilities with none of the time, money, skills, space or other resources available in sufficient quantity or quality to restore them. It's an uncomfortable fact that, as others have pointed out, does materially detract from a preserved railway nostalgia experience. Then there others like the Dart Valley that go to the other extreme and are basically a no-frills lean business model. I guess many of us want something in between. That I don't seem to have found it probably explains why I am so rarely seen on these lines in an enthusiast capacity.

 

As for liveries, you're possibly correct, when there are adequate real liveries then there is room to play. Different strokes etc, but isn't it really like taking modelling to its natural conclusion: if it's mine I'll paint it how I like...

[Adam]

Superb! I knew nothing of this. What an experience it must be riding in this coach. Hats off also to the people involved in its lengthy rebuilding and restoration.....And of course the painter!

 

And yes, I remember watching that play 'The Signalman' with Denholme Elliot.

 

Larry G.

 

The Severn Valley has another toplight in operational condition Larry, and a couple more Churchward period vehicles (one in service, another awaiting restoration):

 

http://www.gw-svr-a.org.uk/9055.html

http://www.gw-svr-a.org.uk/2426.html

http://www.gw-svr-a.org.uk/9369.html

 

'Chard - I should point out that neither of the two railways to use the 'Dart Valley' name in the past now use the label (there was a big legal dispute over this some time back). You're referring to the Paignton and Dartmouth Steam Railway which, I agree, is a very successful (if rather souless) operation.

 

Adam

[coachmann]

Many thanks for the links Adam. I remember they had a toplight in 1912-22 lined maroon livery at one time but i assumed this was the sole member. When one considers this railway also has the Stanier and Gresley coaches, it must place the SVR top of the league for preservation of stock as well as locos.

 

Re "its my loco and I'll paint it how I like" is an interesting point. I am pretty sure a lot of money is raised from enthusiasts to support the restoration of a diesel/steam loco, so it isn't really one persons loco at the end of the day. Spurious liveries only lend wieght to the thought that some people are just playing silly beggars. I thought this when a certain Class 40 came to North Wales in Large Logo livery, the sight of which created a feeling that was far from nostalgic!

 

When I owned a double deck bus, it really was mine and I could resist the youngsters who thought it might be "fun" to paint it in SELNEC orange and ivory once body restoration was completed.

 

LG

[Rugd1022]

Hi All

 

What I would like to see is less rusting hulks taking up valuable space time and money when we already have others of the same class or type preserved. I mean some of our preserved railways look more like scrap yards these days! I am a great fan of class 50's but why so many in preservation? AS long as we have a couple in tip top condition send the rest for scrap and pour efforts into getting other rare stuff properly saved. Another thing I would like to see is preserved stuff in the liveries they actually carried and not some ficticious livery that just happens to be the owners favourite. I wonder if this is a result of having too much of one type so the owners need to do something to stand out? Whatever, I dont like it!

 

Asked to pick one thing though it has to be the APT-E back in working order. Its a whole type of propulsion (gas turbine I mean) that AFAIK is lost to history.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

 

I understand your point of view completely Jim but if I can put the boot on the other foot for a moment...... what if the rusting hulk of a 50 was yours? You've scrimped and saved and called in all sorts of favours to secure and buy it, you've found a home for it and put a plan in place to restore it.......then over time, the money and enthusiasm runs out (not just your own but others who said they would help out)..... it must be heart breaking to admit defeat and realise you've bitten off more than you can chew, but at least you know you've saved something for the future. There may well be too many 50s / Bullied Pacifics etc but once they're gone, they're gone for good! Thankfully, there are now seven Westerns for us to enjoy but it could so easily have been only six, D1015 was hours away from being cut up until Paul Koch and his team stepped in. I know money is tight when it comes to preservation, but the fact is that whoever has deep enough pockets in the first place gets to decide what gets saved and what doesn't. In the case of the twenty or so 50s that have survived, I guess it's down to the big groundswell of popularity they enjoyed in their twighlight years just at the time that diesel preservation started to take off big time. Same goes for the 37s.

 

As for liveries, personally I'm not keen on oddball colours / wrong numbers and all that. I rather like the idea of all the surviving members of a class being in the same livery with no frills, all gathered together as if it were a normal working day at any given depot. I know it'll never happen now but I'd give my right arm to see all the surviving Warships, Westerns and Hymeks parked round the turntable at Old Oak in period garb, some idling, some silent, and all in workaday condition (externally of course!) - now that would be something to see. Or how about twenty odd large logo 50s strewn around the yard at Laira....?

 

Of the 'ones that got away' I'd have to go for NBL Type 2 6319, if it hadn't been for someone at Derby making a clerical era it would still be around now, then again losing out on this one gave us D821 instead.... ;O)

 

Nidge

[Guest jim s-w]

Indeed so Nidge

 

It must be heartbraking to pour all that money and time into something only for interest to die and the thing to rust away!

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[coachmann]

In the early days of preservation money was scarse, besides there were lines to relay and open. Those lines were up and running by the time Diesels were being saved. Trouble is, the enthusiasm for this form of motive power is not shared by the public, and many preserved lines have woken up to this fact in recent years. The initial thought that future youngsters would want to see diesels and not steam didn't happen.

 

Another factor is too many diesels of one class can defeat the object. They'll be taken for granted whereas one Class 50 would have had a monopoly.

[MerseyMan]

Id quite like to see No.1000 Midland compound returned to steam, outshopped in a work-stained BR lined Black livery with the early crest on the tender. Pair it with the SVR’s LMS set and I cant think of anything else more appealing.

[Mr Brunel]

All 'the ones that got away'. For example :

60024 Kingfisher

60034 Lord Faringdon

(Lasted until the end of Scottish steam and could have been contenders for preservation)

60014 Silver Link

6018 King Henry VI

(Plans to take them to Butlins fell through)

2937 Clevedon Court

(see earlier pages)

Now the pie in the sky :

'Aberdare' 2-6-0

Another Star class to be put in operational service

Dean Single

[coachmann]

BR blood & custard or maroon were the common liveries from 1949 to 1962, so lets see this era re-created when a preserved line only has BR Mk.I coaches. Far better than a 12 inch to the foot trainset lookalike. As for the predominance of Mk.Is in chocolate & cream.........Aaaagggghhhhh!!!

[Andy Kirkham]

I am always impressed when I see photos of LMS locos in the very early Grouping era - its seems that they applied lined crimson quite indiscriminately to lots of small locos and old crocks. The LMS crest was on the cabside and number on the tender and they always seem in that brief period to be sparkling clean.

 

How many locos survive that might have carried that livery? I think Hardwicke would look great in crimson, although it would doubtless be anathema to LNWR fans.

 

Andy

[Clay Country]

It would be nice to see a rake of HAAs (probably not a full-length rake) to run behind some of the beautifully-restored 56s on heritage railways. Unfortunately though, judging by the saga of the windcutter rake on the GCR, a lot more people are interested in taking pictures of wagons than contributing to their restoration.

[PhilH]

It's all very well people moaning about 'rusting hulks' sitting about on preserved railways, but there's one thing I can tell you from experience - it ain't half satisfying when you help turn one of these rusting hulks into a pristine working example of our railway heritage.

[noiseboy72]

If you are quick, there is a friendless Peak at Shackerstone Railway soon to be cut up.

 

Before you get grand ideas, here is a brief list of the major things wrong with it...

 

Top end of engine missing. Rest of block siezed and a total write off.

Gearbox on leading axle has a hole in it and has bits poking through.

Body has missing panels

Serious rot throughout

Needs total re-wire and re-pipe

 

Thats before all the usual things old diesels need to get them running !

 

Some of this stuff just needs scrapping to free up resources and space to restore stuff that actually has a hope of ever running again.

 

Not being anti, just realistic...

[35 Ark Royal]

If you could rebuild and then preserve id like to see the following 50001/004/009/014/024/025/028/032/034/036/037/039/040/041/04

5/046

D601 Ark Royal

Some more Westerns

Some more Warships

Any North British Warships class 43

Deltics 003/004/006/007/009/010/013/014/018

DP2

HST powerr cars

Falcon

Kestrel

47091/647/846 THOR

Class 22

Class 29

More Hymeks as they sound hellfire

[Peter Kazmierczak]

It would be nice to see a rake of HAAs (probably not a full-length rake) to run behind some of the beautifully-restored 56s on heritage railways. Unfortunately though, judging by the saga of the windcutter rake on the GCR, a lot more people are interested in taking pictures of wagons than contributing to their restoration.

 

Yes, I agree. It would be criminal not to preserve a rake of HAAs; truly an iconic wagon type. 36 of them (or better still 42) behind a Cl.56 or Cl.58 - that's what the locos were built for.

 

In a similar vein, a 5-wagon freightliner set with some original-style containers in BR red/grey livery should be something to aspire too. Some of the other containers could be sponsored by commercial firms/shipping lines.

 

Too much emphasis is, very understandably, placed on locos. I can't see that changing though. A similar sort of thing happens on model railways too.

[Invicta]

I am always impressed when I see photos of LMS locos in the very early Grouping era - its seems that they applied lined crimson quite indiscriminately to lots of small locos and old crocks. The LMS crest was on the cabside and number on the tender and they always seem in that brief period to be sparkling clean.

 

How many locos survive that might have carried that livery? I think Hardwicke would look great in crimson, although it would doubtless be anathema to LNWR fans.

 

Andy

 

At the risk of getting hate mail from the LNWR Society , I like the way you're thinking there...

[coachmann]

Hardwick in LMS lake was anathema to George Mellor thats for sure. He gave me another kit to buil and paint in 'proper' livery for his display cabinet! On the other hand, David Jenkinson deliberately found a red 'Jumbo' he could legitemately run on his layout, and said at the time he brought it over he expected fireworks from certrain quarters!

 

I've probably painted every class of LNWR engine that was entitled to red at one time or another, but IMO it doesn't really suit LNWR locos with the exception of big-boiler Claughtons. But then, they were always red anyway.

 

It's funny how attitudes change though. When steam was still on BR, I remember a debate raging in one contemporay magazine over whether a Schools should be preserved without smoke deflectors, or how most people remember them. No one at the time even thought of painting a preserved loco in BR livery! Forty years on from the end of steam and everything with a boiler is history now be it BR, Big Four or pre-group.

 

 

[Bloodnok]

Most important thing I'd like to see in the preservation movement is preserved lines being able to run with passengers at higher speeds where appropriate.

 

Don't get me wrong - the 25mph light railway concept is good for preservation and suits a lot of preservation activity, particularly the lines maintained with a few volunteers which go from nowhere to nowhere, and have only one or two stations.

 

Other lines however have a longer run, better pway on good alignments, and the skills to maintain it to a better than required standard for a 25mph light railway. I'm thinking here of lines like the SVR or the GC, both of whom have been permitted to run faster, but AFAIK not while open to the public.

 

IMHO that's the most important thing to fix. I know not every preserved railway would benefit, but for those who have a longish run and a connection to one or more towns and/or other transport links, it would offer an opportunity to provide transport to take people places, rather than just to attract visitors. 40mph has been proposed as a practical minimum for this kind of operation, and circa 55 or 60mph would be preferable...

 

 

In more blue-sky terms, I'd love a re-creation of HS4000 Kestrel (why do so many people think the name is spelt with an A?). It's not going to happen though, as it would all depend on getting hold of a Sulzer 16LVA24 engine. Or should I say 'the' - I can't find a reference to any other 16LVA24 engine anywhere - this appears to be the only one, unless Winterthur built more and never sold them. Given Sulzer still exists (though for diesel engines you'd go to Wärtsilä now as they own Sulzer's diesel engine division), I suppose it may be technically possible to have another one made, but still, it's a huge ask...

 

A lot more achievable would be to re-create a 12LVA24 powered "class 48" - it would actually be possible to obtain the engine for these, as they aren't anywhere near as rare. Are any of the five original locos (albeit re-engined to class 47s) still extant and in a condition worth saving? There is some appeal to re-fitting the V engine to a loco that originally had it, rather than one of the many others that never did...

[muddys-blues]

All of the First generation DMU's, these old rattlers still had more charisma than the newer types. Were else as a kid could you sit behind the driver and pretend to drive the train yourself.

 

Aahh childhood memories.