F-UnitMad Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I think the "oooh please stay" style of responses have missed the point of the original post: the argument that the RRP costs are pricing people out of the hobby. ..and , also to be fair, I think that the OP misses a point about the hobby too... surely the rising cost of RRP actually only prices you out of one particular aspect of the hobby - i.e. being able to afford particular models?? I'd certainly consider myself "Priced Out" of O Scale right now, especially UK-outline, but as I said earlier, that doesn't mean I want to ditch the whole hobby completely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamouti Ben Yafo Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I do see the original point, though; having had to delay my layout (twelve years and counting!), my loco stable is stuck at: Crane tanks X2 (was going to be a dockside layout, and I have a soft spot for these) Warship (Druid) Western (W Druid - yes, there is a theme here) Class 37 I may well have left it a bit late to get in the other motive power I ought to have bought first, like another 37, two 47s, a 35 and a couple of 08s. Stil, I've got a boxful of Parkside stuff waiting for more time. And my diecast road vehicle collection is satisfying indeed; rebuilding the older Matchbox and Minix models will take a while. But as for the OP - some of you need to lay off. Isn't anyone around here allowed to just vent some frustration anymore? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Costs are relative.....in the 1950's a RTR cost about the same as two weeks average weekly wages, kits about half that, so what's that these days? an average wage £450 or so, I don't know the exact figure, but RTR does not cost £900 per loco... in real terms Bachmann and Hornby are relatively cheap, but must rise more than inflation here, relating more in increases beyond inflation in wages in China, which now have minimum wage rates being imposed. A K's kit for a loco cost about a third of the average wage in the late 1970's, so a cast kit these days should be about 450/3 : £150 or thereabouts, and that's about what they are today..and at that level cheaper than in the 1950's. The prices these days seem high to older modellers who remember the lower prices, but I think when wages are compared things are actually not that bad at present. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 .....as for the OP - some of you need to lay off. Isn't anyone around here allowed to just vent some frustration anymore? Nope. 'cos for every gathering of Rockers, there'll be a balancing gathering of Mods Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamouti Ben Yafo Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Nope. 'cos for every gathering of Rockers, there'll be a balancing gathering of Mods Ben Yafo shakes his head in disbelief; buries face in hands... Groan... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Ben Yafo shakes his head in disbelief; buries face in hands... Groan... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamouti Ben Yafo Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Yes! Yes, thats it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT3 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 There is a sure fire way to save money on new RTR, model in a different scale that is not so well served with RTR. ohhh how I would like to complain about the latest rtr 3mm but am a bit spolied for choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave777 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 To be fair, whilst the OP does seem rather a late night over-reaction, I think the "oooh please stay" style of responses have missed the point of the original post, which makes the argument that the RRP costs are pricing people out of the hobby. I don't usually comment on threads past about page 2, but I confess I took the first post at face value - I'm leaving and here's why - and offered up a way around the apparent dilemma. Reading some of the other posts has certainly put a different light on it for me. I'm not sure about the 'pull yourself together/get real' posts, but if the original point was actually to moan about increasing prices then I'm really disappointed with that. A subject covered many times before, with the perfectly reasonable answer essentially always being ‘model within your means’ (isn’t that what we all have to do…?), but this time started under the cover of a smoke screen. I don’t know what to think now, and feeling uneasy about having taken the time to try and help. Benefit of the doubt, I guess.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 A subject covered many times before, with the perfectly reasonable answer essentially always being ‘model within your means’ (isn’t that what we all have to do…?), This is what we have to do in all aspects of life - if we don't then we're in trouble! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 16, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2011 I don't usually comment on threads past about page 2, but I confess I took the first post at face value - I'm leaving and here's why - and offered up a way around the apparent dilemma. And so, I hope, did I. It might be that the OP was a reaction to rising prices from a relative newcomer to the hobby who effectively arrived at a time when a certain part of it was remarkably cheap by historical measures and who doesn't like the way in which that is changing towards higher prices. There might be other reasons which we are missing or misreading and that was just how it all came to be expressed. But overall surely the reasonable reaction is to be disappointed to see that someone who has advanced so far so quickly in areas which have very little to do with taking things out of boxes 'as they come' is leaving, or thinking of leaving, the hobby? And - without impinging on his privacy - to offer suggestions of ways around his dilemma in the hope of keeping him involved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 What nobody has said yet is just how good the new rtr stuff is. The £200 jobbies have got sound, dcc etc and are, I think, better models than the best kit or scratch-builds from a short while ago. As many have pointed out, it is quite easy to pick up second hand, or out-of-current-range models, improve, re-number, repaint and/or weather them and end up with a unique model with a lot of personal input. OF COURSE posting on here is attention seeking, so is exhibiting, wearing flamboyant clothes, driving a nice car, morris dancing, you name it. It is part of the human condition and where would we be without it? I just hope that the vitriol on this thread has not driven the OP away. My advice is , to paraphrase, "post in haste and repent at leisure". Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamouti Ben Yafo Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Hattons is a good place to look - I did and found myself reassured (for others) but a leetle beet grrrr! - for me. Some excellent deals on there; but almost all far too modern for poor old Ben Yafo... So I'll shop around. Now there's an idea! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 OF COURSE posting on here is attention seeking, so is exhibiting, wearing flamboyant clothes, driving a nice car, morris dancing, you name it. It is part of the human condition and where would we be without it? As ever on here, folk have a tendency to take a throwaway phrase and run a mile with it. OF COURSE (you won't mind me shouting back) we all like folk to comment on our models, or our new shoes or our decorating for that matter - but it's a question of degree, as to how much, how often and how loudly we need that reassurance. At one time we had regular threads on here with somebody apparently flouncing off, followed by posters predictably exhorting them to stay. Typically, the 'departure' either didnt happen or was a prolonged, on-off thing, and I for one wouldn't wish to see that pattern or regularity return. I have a strong suspicion that in nearly all cases (not all, admittedly) it's due to some other factor in the poster's life that isnt disclosed; I don't doubt the therapeutic value of this site at all, but in some cases it's clear that folk need the sort of help that we can't give. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Colin Posted February 16, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2011 This thread just proves what I've felt for a while - that many of us have had to make some hard choices of late as the gap between available money and modelling "wants" gets ever wider. My personal reaction to this has been to abandon one layout project for which I was slowly amassing suitable locos, stock, kits etc, sell off some unnecessary bits and pieces and concentrate on my main two - BR/SR London area and LSWR main line in Hampshire, both in the mid-60s era. Much of my stock is of course appropriate for both layouts - a valuable saving. I will (hopefully) retire in the next 3 years or so, which will mean another big cut in my modelling budget - I'm looking upon the current need for economy as a sort of training course for what is to come! Darren, if you're anything like me you have a fair few unbuilt kits lying in a drawer somewhere - why not build them? IMHO buying new rtr isn't a lasting substitute for actually creating a model (which I know you're darn good at) - the "quick fix" of another Hornmann box under my arm at an exhibition is soon eclipsed by the satisfaction I feel next time I finish a scratchbuilt building for the layout or put the finishing touches to another Parkside wagon kit. Just a thought - once we are all retired, just who is going to buy all those expensive locos and stock? Will we enter a new age where mass produced ranges shrink and limited editions become the norm? Interesting times, methinks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 This thread just proves what I've felt for a while - that many of us have had to make some hard choices of late as the gap between available money and modelling "wants" gets ever wider. But the OP has a completed layout and could enjoy what he has very cheaply. As others have said you don't need new RTR to enjoy the hobby! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 16, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2011 Just a thought - once we are all retired, just who is going to buy all those expensive locos and stock? Will we enter a new age where mass produced ranges shrink and limited editions become the norm? Interesting times, methinks. Not necessarily - there seem to be an awful lot of businesses out there chasing the 'grey £'. And in the case of many folk their mortgages are cleared and they have little else to spend money on beyond household maintenance and occasional renewal of furniture and white goods etc together with a spot of 'leisure spending'. Thus there is, at present, quite a lot of disposable income looking for somewhere to be spent. It is for example very noticeable that certain types of 'collecting hobby' auction sales seem to attract a predominantly grey or white headed clientele and not a few of those folk appear to have plenty of financial resources and discussing this recently with someone in the trade we realised that it is usually the older folk who have much lower outgoings and thus have the spare cash, and occasionally the time, to enable them to pursue such hobbies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Well, in part. Yes, the mortgage is paid off and that's a great feeling, but lots of us are now helping kids through uni, and getting out of debt; or helping kids get on the housing ladder (we have one of each). I also think that there may be several people in the unenviable position of endowment type mortgages not paying the loan off. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Thats a good point about the 'grey £' Mike. I have often thought the same, there must be many like me (or older) who have worked their career in an industry with a 'job for life'. Then have received redundancy money or been able to retire early after 30 or 40 years (I managed 30 on the railway), hence have a bit more disposable income. However I don't see that continuing in the future to the same extent, as most of those industries have now shed their staff. My friends of similar or younger age than me have mostly always been in employment, some on contract work and many on much higher wages than me. But many of them have regularly had to change jobs, and most have not been continuously paying in to a pension scheme. With the increasing rarity of final salary pension schemes and the passing of the 'job for life' I see the amount of disposable income from that source decreasing in the future. cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamouti Ben Yafo Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I have a strong suspicion that in nearly all cases (not all, admittedly) it's due to some other factor in the poster's life that isnt disclosed; I don't doubt the therapeutic value of this site at all, but in some cases it's clear that folk need the sort of help that we can't give. Well, yes - none of us lives in a vacuum; I, for example, got into a near catastrophic argument with someone in November largely because I had - unbeknown to me - become dangerously hyperglycaemic. But that latter bit? Diagnostician, are we? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 ...there seem to be an awful lot of businesses out there chasing the 'grey £'. And in the case of many folk their mortgages are cleared and they have little else to spend money on beyond household maintenance and occasional renewal of furniture and white goods etc together with a spot of 'leisure spending'. Thus there is, at present, quite a lot of disposable income looking for somewhere to be spent. ... Sounds like the Gauge O Guild Shows... there still seems to be some serious money swilling around in the O scale field, but look at the age of the majority of Punters... Along the same lines as Rivercider's point, it is reckoned that today's Pensioners are the most well-off Pensioners there will ever be. (apologies to any pensioners here who may not be!!) Just as aside, I am beginning to agree with Shortliner's post a few pages back, about the "attention seeking" nature of the OP.... the writer of which has not condescended to post any further at all here, in acknowledgment or otherwise, in 4 pages-worth of thread... so what really is going on there?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theakerr Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Gentlemen, I think we sometimes forget just how lucky we are today. Yes time have changed and will continue to change but!! I remember my Father back in the 50's having to save his "allowance" for many weeks/months just to but a set of points. His "allowance" was based on what was left after all the weekly family expenses were more or less covered. He/we made do (our grass was sawdust painted) but we still had a lot of fun. Take whatever you have and enjoy it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 16, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2011 Thats a good point about the 'grey £' Mike. I have often thought the same, there must be many like me (or older) who have worked their career in an industry with a 'job for life'. Then have received redundancy money or been able to retire early after 30 or 40 years (I managed 30 on the railway), hence have a bit more disposable income. However I don't see that continuing in the future to the same extent, as most of those industries have now shed their staff. My friends of similar or younger age than me have mostly always been in employment, some on contract work and many on much higher wages than me. But many of them have regularly had to change jobs, and most have not been continuously paying in to a pension scheme. With the increasing rarity of final salary pension schemes and the passing of the 'job for life' I see the amount of disposable income from that source decreasing in the future. cheers Quite so - although the pace at which it happens might (maybe?) be balanced by other factors. In the meanwhile our grey £s seem to be heavily devoted to keeping a roof(ours) over the heads of two graduates who are trying to find paid employment as opposed to indulging in the modern form of employment charity known variously as 'shadowing' or 'internship' where you work for someone who doesn't pay you in order to gain that wonderful thing called 'experience'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 To be fair, whilst the OP does seem rather a late night over-reaction, I think the "oooh please stay" style of responses have missed the point of the original post, which makes the argument that the RRP costs are pricing people out of the hobby. I concede that there are one or two who do appear to seek some form of recognition or "following" here on RMWeb, but that's just group dynamics IMO. I'd still like to believe most content is uploaded in good faith - for peer review, to assist, to inform, to entertain - not to seek plaudits, acclaim, or 'status'. Maybe I'm naive. Well, it's still nice to get a compliment, Jamie! I personally believe that you have to treat a situation like this as an opportunity to re-focus and decide what you really want from your hobby. Having survived a recent crisis of my own in relation to my hobby, I am still in that process of re-focusing back onto the things that provide the most satisfaction. This is very much a fluid process and still ongoing as I look at my collection and try to take a realistic view of what I can achieve in the space I have and with the ever-decreasing time available. I think many of us are guilty of acquisition for the sake of it and I would surely rank myself as a serious offender here in the past. There's plenty of fat to trim off yet, so watch the classifieds! Taken in a positive way though, the current situation in relation to pricing, etc is IO believe making us all take stock and if it is putting the emphasis back onto the creative, rather than the acquisitive aspects of the hobby then it may be no bad thing! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Colin Posted February 16, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2011 Thats a good point about the 'grey £' Mike. I have often thought the same, there must be many like me (or older) who have worked their career in an industry with a 'job for life'. Then have received redundancy money or been able to retire early after 30 or 40 years (I managed 30 on the railway), hence have a bit more disposable income. However I don't see that continuing in the future to the same extent, as most of those industries have now shed their staff. My friends of similar or younger age than me have mostly always been in employment, some on contract work and many on much higher wages than me. But many of them have regularly had to change jobs, and most have not been continuously paying in to a pension scheme. With the increasing rarity of final salary pension schemes and the passing of the 'job for life' I see the amount of disposable income from that source decreasing in the future. cheers I agree with the second paragraph in particular - I'm currently awaiting an "announcement" concerning my pension! It should be safe but you never know...... Also as Ed says in his post, middle age can bring other financial pressures we probably hadn't bargained for (I have experience of a couple of them). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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