Pennine MC Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Now then, I considered voting for the OP as a way of saying, chin up old chap, your modelling is valued, we're on your side, stay with it... But then it struck me, are the votes for the OP from other members who are considering throwing in the towel too? TBH I think it's 'petition mentality' - a token protest at the way prices are (admittedly) rocketing. Doesnt much matter though, if a few blokes on the Internet could buck the global economy, it wouldn't be very global Only last night I commented on this again, but Hattons are currently selling various Heljan BRCWs at sub-£50, and similarly my local model shop has a steady turnover of recent RTR (examples: Bachy Std 4, Deltic and Fairburn, Hornby Grange) at £45 - 50. And that's just locos - 4mm road vehicles are little more than the price of a pint, and scenic materials generally sub- £20 I'm very sorry you feel that way but I'm not going to join in with the sympathy vote here. .. Get a grip, man and stop complaining. Dave, I am right with you here - and furthermore, I dont think we see enough 'cruel to be kind' posts on this forum. TBH it saddens me how much this forum (and others) have become an outlet for various forms of attention-seeking. If you think £78.95 is in the world of the rich man then you'd have thrown in the towel long ago if you were on my money... Quite. I'm lucky enough to have an income that is 'reasonable but not excessive' (to quote David Jenkinson, I think) these days, but I can easily remember harder times when new locos were a Christmas present or other exceptional purchase. Even so, I ended up with more Lima than I knew what to do with, and lots of wagon kits that are still ferreted away I also think this is just the tip of the iceberg and in a few years time we will be paying over £200+ for a loco ,so it is now time for me to move on to something else . I think that possibly places a question mark over why you're in the hobby. I love railways and I love this hobby, and even in the hardest times (as mentioned above), I've never thought of giving up because of cost. If you're a creative person, the desire for creativity should be something that never leaves you (and hopefully keeps you going during the bad times, though I appreciate it's not always that simple). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted February 15, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 15, 2011 Seek out your nearest preserved railway and play with 12" / ft models - believe me it is much more satisfying than 1:76, 1:87, 1:43 or 1 1/16"/ft models (these are scales I dabble in) Seriously, there is a lot of satisfaction to be gained from using your skills on the real thing, and you usually get free tea (but no sympathy) as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Our hobby is not expensive compared with some, take Golf, annual fees, kit, clubs, and when you finally retire from the game, all you've got to show for it is worthless rusty clubs. When you retire from modelling (if ever), there is something tangible that you've created, it can even in some cases be items that have increased in value. However, I'm reluctant to cost my hobby in money terms, if I did, I think it would demean it. It's supposed to be fun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 15, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 15, 2011 Darren - you're a proper model maker - I know that because I've seen your layout for real and pointed my camera and lights at it (and it's gone down a storm in editorial). I recall you took great pride in telling me that you are happiest when you have a pot of glue, paint and some cardboard or plastic sheet. Don't go just yet. And Chris....would it be fair to say he could earn a bit of extra spending money on the side by doing some 'show you how' type articles? I would imagine there would be a fair few folk wanting to know how the various bits of Torrington were created. From experience a reasonable article will net you enough to by a loco such as a 7F, with the added bonus of sharing skills and inspiration with others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I now consider the OP was just over reacting, especially after I have just come off Hattons website aftere looking at some models I could do with for the layout. Darens comments made me fear the worst but heck, some items have barely changed so why all the tears? The 'thing' I want happens to be less expensive than the Bachmann equivalent. And no I'm not going to name it in case there is a rush before I place my order.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 However, I'm reluctant to cost my hobby in money terms, if I did, I think it would demean it. It's supposed to be fun. I daren't, in case SWMBO sees my calculations Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamieb Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Darren I shall just echo what others have said.Torrington is a great layout and seems to have come about in a fairly short timescale ,which proves your modelling talents.True , the hobby is getting dearer when wages are static and cost of living is increasing.In my case , I have 30 years worth of kits and bits which I've been saving for a rainy day.Well, the rainy days have arrived .I'm resisting buying much in the way of new, instead most of my modelling money goes towards things like wheels and motors etc to get things finished which were started long ago before RTR increased in quality and I began buying off the shelf.And I feel better for it! Seeing something which has been sitting looking at me malevolently from a cardboard box defying me to get the glue out,suddenly running down the track ,spurs me on far more than buying a Hornby T9, taking it out the box , running it round the layout a few times and then trying dismally to get it back in the box without snapping bits off. We can probably learn from the mentality of tho O Gauge boys who, because of the cost, only buy what they need, and probably end up spending less than we do.Don't give up , set yourself a discipline which means you HAVE to create rather than purchase.With your modelling skills,you'll find it hard not to create something worthwhile.Chin up Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Country Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Despite increasing prices, value is certainly out there to be had. Not every item you buy will be reduced in price but whatever you model, you will always find a bargain, new or secondhand, if you shop around. I've had some excellent purchases from the Classifieds page on this website, which is well worth keeping an eye on. Things could be a lot worse, you could be into Premiership football, or modelling European railways Torrington is a real inspiration, it would be a shame if someone with your skills jacked the hobby in simply because the cost of rolling stock had gone up - there's so much more to model railways than just trains. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 there's so much more to model railways than just trains. Just running, operating and enjoying a layout which is substantially complete is a very economical way to enjoy the hobby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I can sympathize a lot with the OP - it is a difficult time financially for a lot of people, modellers or not, and the 'sexy' bit of the hobby, the shopping part, is getting a lot more costly. Its not just VAT, but mostly increases in costs in China (and however annoying it might be to us, we can't really complain that the people making the models are now paid something almost resembling a livable wage). As many comments have already said though, the truly great modellers on here are geniuses with design, colour, foliage, buildings, weathering and atmosphere - these don't come free, but can be developed and enjoyed regardless of the latest RRPs of rolling stock. I've not bought much N gauge stock for a while now as I have much of what I want. Needing to stretch my modelling muscles again, however, I've started a small OO layout, and am doing it cheaply - Heljan 33s from Hattons for £40, shunters for £45, DMUs for £60...you can find bargains, and you can model within a budget, but I certainly appreciate the ever-increasing prices of the 'new' can put us off. Keep going, I'm sure the love of the hobby will speak louder to you than the desire to go shopping! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_long Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Lots of people have said that there are bargains out there if you look which is true, my example would be the Vi locos for sale at Hattons from between £34-50 and the 47s which some people consider to be the best version. I've only ever bought one item new that being the T4U class 150. The other thing you could do is use Hornby spares there are still a lot out there, I've got two 86s to model I bought Warship chassis for less than a tenner and the bits/spares new cost less than £10 too. While ebay can be a mine field I do buy a lot from there just set up saved searchs that send you emails when new items that you like come up forsale and just add them and watch if the price is good go for it if not leave it a lone eventually bargains turn up. Also keep an eye on things listed as spares or non runners, ok you can tell when something will never run again, but some are easily fixed, I know of several instances where the motors cardan drive shafts had worked out of position and the model was sold as a non runner for very cheap prices. If you want to make yourself feel better about the uk market just go through gaugemasters website and look at the prices of European HO models. I was helping exhibit this weekend just past where a chap asked if he could test a model on our layout but being DC we couldn't test it but he was quite chatty and he was complaining about the cost of sound chips, however while he was chatting the item he asked to try out was some strange Marklin HO item and as he was holding it I saw the price label on the box a cool £264.99 and I thought your complaining about the cost of sound chips huh Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platform 1 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 If I may summarise: "Happiness is wanting what you have". Marketing moguls try to persuade us otherwise :-( Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium gc4946 Posted February 15, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 15, 2011 I've been following this thread with interest and in my case there have been times when I've been unemployed and even in work, eg my first graduate job, my disposable income meant I could only afford secondhand items or the occasional new model. Even when I was in between jobs I still modelled, indeed I had more free time (between job applications and interviews) to paint, detail and complete scenery or stock than when I was in work. It's only in the last few years have I spent a lot on new stuff and now the recession's biting and the cost of new items have shot up, I'm concentrating more on my preferences, declutter my collections, scale down my purchases and plans and make the most of what I've got. Fortunately my old modelling habits and skills haven't atrophied in all this plenty, for example, I've decided to refurbish a partly-converted Hornby GWR 2884 2-8-0 with tender drive rather than buy the new version, and in general keep my ringfield powered locos. It's not easy adjusting to a situation where, modelling wise, you've only had plenty and knowing that your most desired or asked for model is just round the corner ... nowadays I'll be happy to wait a few years for those to filter into the used market. Finally ... don't give up!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffles Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I'm struggling to sympathise with this. Since the birth of my daughter and my wife's erratic employment (agency work) I simply don't have the money available to me that I used to. I've cut back on all sorts of things (some things remain sacred) and modelling is one of those cutbacks. Should I get a bargain on eBay (HJ 47593 for less than 50 notes anyone?) I normally have to then sell something on to make financial room. My grandmother was never one for giving lectures but did once say to me "cut your garment, according to your cloth". Having started a diorama recently, based on Edge Hill stabling point for (hopefully) minimal outlay, I can assure you that enjoying this hobby needn't be costly. Thus far, I have spent three quid on some hanging basket liner. The rest has come from offcuts of board, offcuts of track and polystyrene packing. It's no work of art but it's mine and it's cheap. I am sure there are plenty of models I would like to own* but I don't have the money, so I shall enjoy what I have and make best use of them. *I would dearly love to own a Jouef SNCF CC-6500 for no other reason than I like it but at £200+ it's not happening right now. I will however, retain this hobby as a useful distraction from life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Raffles post above set me casting my mind back to a similar situation in the early 1960's. Wife, kiddies, loan to buy house and so on. No point in mentioning wages as everything is relative, but you get the idea.....Not much different from today! It took a while to get as far as a plank, a TT BEC kitbuilt 4F, a few wagons and a Triang A1A-A1A diesel loco, but I enjoyed the getting there. Afterall, "We never 'ad it so good" with our tin bath, hot water geyser and tipler toilet down the yard. And so I wonder how we would have managed had the RTR catalogues been as tasty as they are today. Would we have become a nation of moaners?B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 TBH _ I'm not certain if this is or isn't attention seeking - I notice that the OP, since his outburst on here and in the status updates - hasn't posted - I would have expected a comment from him before now - assuming that his toys are still in the pram, and he hasn't departed, stamping his feet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanks522 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 First off Darren it would be a great shame for someone of your talents to leave railway modelling. I do sympathise with what you say about price increase's, but on a personal note it doesn't have to be expensive, i have viewed many topics on RM WEB where people have created masterpieces out of nothing. Its great when i can pop to my local modelshop and spend money on new releases but i get much more satisfaction out of tinkering with a wagon, adding details weathering etc. Graham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 TBH _ I'm not certain if this is or isn't attention seeking - I notice that the OP, since his outburst on here and in the status updates - hasn't posted - I would have expected a comment from him before now - assuming that his toys are still in the pram, and he hasn't departed, stamping his feet. Now that may be a good case for logging in as an anonymous user - let the guy work out what he wants to do - is there a need for a time limitation ? ... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelb Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 just to add my few penny worth. I am well paid in secure work , but still rather make do and mend and make from scratch . i begrudge spending large amounts on RTR stuff , perhaps that why i chose 2mm FS There are a lot of 'old' models out there just crying out to be up graded / modified / tweaked. Darren keep the faith branch out to use your skilss in other areas Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I think most of us feel better after a rant. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Dave, I am right with you here - and furthermore, I dont think we see enough 'cruel to be kind' posts on this forum. TBH it saddens me how much this forum (and others) have become an outlet for various forms of attention-seeking. To be fair, whilst the OP does seem rather a late night over-reaction, I think the "oooh please stay" style of responses have missed the point of the original post, which makes the argument that the RRP costs are pricing people out of the hobby. I concede that there are one or two who do appear to seek some form of recognition or "following" here on RMWeb, but that's just group dynamics IMO. I'd still like to believe most content is uploaded in good faith - for peer review, to assist, to inform, to entertain - not to seek plaudits, acclaim, or 'status'. Maybe I'm naive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I don't agree in general with your view Darren. I do think the price rises were coming sooner or later, and I think some are acceptable, some others aren't: what I do know is that one man will be able to buy what another man can't. At the end of the day, that's life. Some of us are unemployed and do not actually earn a wage. I am lucky in that I get a few coppers thrown my way by Youtube every month. Just enough to cover the rent for my folks, and a few bob on the petrol - and sometimes, it builds up and I get something for the layout. But it's not essential. At the end of the day - this is a hobby, and everyone's money belts are tightening in what will be bleak times ahead for some years to come, so it will be the first thing you cut back on sadly. It's not one of life's essentials (in my book, though it is of course very important to me - part of my identity now, in many ways). Save up for the single items you want, plan ahead, and sell off all that you don't use or want to pay for it. Failing that - find other ways of getting what you want. Make it yourself, buy an older model, or not at all - find alternatives, they are there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 . I wanted a Bachmann 3F; When Bachmann announced the 3F it was priced at around £55.00 now it’s gone up to £78.95! And the 7F that you could get when it first came out at just over £100.00, now £142.99 RRP. Forgive me if this has already been mentioned but it is still possible to pre-order the 3F for £56 from Hattons Also I received a newsletter from one of the big retailers last week offering the 7F for £99.95 ( trouble is I cant remember which one!) Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 ....the argument that the RRP costs are pricing people out of the hobby.... Wait 'til you have to pay Continental-outline prices. You don't know what you've had 'til you've lost it. There is always scratchbuilding.....if you can be bothered, but in today's society of wanting it now, wanting it yesterday..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Horsetan: for clarification that is not my outlook on the hobby you have quoted, but my reading of the OP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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