RMweb Premium James Makin Posted January 24, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2015 At last. My 2 SPAs done but not weathered much yet. Got them ready for the Erith Show this weekend. 24/25th Jan. Dave DAV_6246.jpg DAV_6247.jpg How did you make that rebar Dave? Looks awesome! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 Hi Due to todays orders no23 model has Sold Out Big Big thank you for your support it means so much. No60 model now has 24 left? Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlinb Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Well done, 60 will soon be gone then, how are the CRM ones doing now, hopefully they are selling well now as well Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 Hi Brian My favorite is CRM ones and I thought they would sell out first Wrong? Around 100+ left of each number. Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted January 24, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2015 Having seen one of these in the flesh today I congratulate Hugh in delivering a model which is far better than the kit built one I have. Too much negativity from some people with regards to these models - If they put their money where their mouth is lets see them come up with a 100% correct model first time... Well done Hugh for producing something in RTR most people would never have expected to appear! Baz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Hi Brian My favorite is CRM ones and I thought they would sell out first Wrong? Around 100+ left of each number. Hugh Perhaps people thought, erroneously, that they were limited to the Cardiff area. In truth, they wandered as far afield as Mossend, near Glasgow, and doubtless many other locations where rod and bar were used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted January 26, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 26, 2015 If nobody checked the work of the chap that produced the files then I think that FTG are as much as, if not more, to blame for errors. Reviewing work before issue is a pretty thing, it is entirely predictable that everybody can and will make mistakes hence you have a review process before designs are approved. Having talked to at least 3 people who have had items manufactured in China for the RTR market you should be aware that the Chinese manufacturers seem to disregard any requests for change.. so you can change your drawings a smuch as you like and they don't incorporate the changes.If you can get a set of 100% perfect drawings with no modifications at all during pre manufacture you must have had some excellent designers. All of the people who worked for me designing a variety of items across light/medium/heavy engineering fields always had to make the odd changes. As I said earlier if you can do better stump up the cash and try it! Baz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted January 26, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 26, 2015 Having talked to at least 3 people who have had items manufactured in China for the RTR market you should be aware that the Chinese manufacturers seem to disregard any requests for change.. so you can change your drawings a smuch as you like and they don't incorporate the changes.If you can get a set of 100% perfect drawings with no modifications at all during pre manufacture you must have had some excellent designers. All of the people who worked for me designing a variety of items across light/medium/heavy engineering fields always had to make the odd changes. As I said earlier if you can do better stump up the cash and try it! Hi Barry I'm sure that is true, but starting off with a set of drawings with questionable accuracy seems to be a recipe for disaster regardless of the difficulties of working with the Chinese. Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Perhaps people thought, erroneously, that they were limited to the Cardiff area. In truth, they wandered as far afield as Mossend, near Glasgow, and doubtless many other locations where rod and bar were used. And still visible on some wagons today! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted January 26, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 26, 2015 Hi Barry I'm sure that is true, but starting off with a set of drawings with questionable accuracy seems to be a recipe for disaster regardless of the difficulties of working with the Chinese. Cheers, Mike Mike I am not sure that you understood my post ..... "questionable accuracy" ... what I have said is if you try to provide any updates to any drawings sent to the Chinese factories nothing happens.... I have read the posts here and have to say there seems minor discrepancies .. of course I have also said if you can do better stump up the cash and show everyone how you would do it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacon butty Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 On the issue of CAD drawings they are just a miniture of the real thing... They are not drawings of the injection mould tool - so if you modify a CAD drawing the CAD for the mould tool would need to be changed and transposed. These are incredibly complex and difficult to fully understand as they have lots of overlapping and reverse detail. I personally have never seen one of these released on any of the forums for obvious reasons but if anyone did see one they would understand why at times things may not be 100%. I for one would like to congratulate Hugh on a fantastic first model and without people like himself and Dave Jones we wouldn't have these fantastic pieces of miniature engineering. Cheers Stuart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 At last. My 2 SPAs done but not weathered much yet. Got them ready for the Erith Show this weekend. 24/25th Jan. Dave DAV_6246.jpg DAV_6247.jpg James. Firstly, I don't take credit for this method. It comes from the 'Troutons' layout thread. Sorry to disappoint. Please feel free to retract you comment if you feel cheated. :-))) I searched on ebay for 'twisted wire' and at the time someone for selling bundles the right length for pennies. Wish I'd bought more. If you look now, there is something called 'twisted wire beading needles' (they have a loop on the end) or something like that. They're a bit expensive unless you can get them in bulk. I found the manufacturer in the USA. they would probably send some over. here. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Beadsmith-Flexible-Twisted-Wire-Fine-Beading-Needles-50-Pack-/360736764263?pt=UK_Crafts_JewelleryMaking_GL&hash=item53fd963167 Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted January 26, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 26, 2015 Mike I am not sure that you understood my post ..... "questionable accuracy" ... what I have said is if you try to provide any updates to any drawings sent to the Chinese factories nothing happens.... I have read the posts here and have to say there seems minor discrepancies .. of course I have also said if you can do better stump up the cash and show everyone how you would do it! That's easy you send a cheque to Cambrian. They send you a kit as then you build it. If you don't want to do that for whatever reason (and you are happy to do so) then FTG have their offering. The choice is yours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted January 26, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 26, 2015 That's easy you send a cheque to Cambrian. They send you a kit as then you build it. If you don't want to do that for whatever reason (and you are happy to do so) then FTG have their offering. The choice is yours. I intended that the statement is about providing your own RTR offering for a loco, coach, wagon or whatever. I have a Cambrian kit for this wagon and I have built it ... I won't comment on its accuracy or other attributes but the RTR option would have been better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I intended that the statement is about providing your own RTR offering for a loco, coach, wagon or whatever. I have a Cambrian kit for this wagon and I have built it ... I won't comment on its accuracy or other attributes but the RTR option would have been better. Well there are those of us that differ, either way I don't see it as essential to have commisioned your own RTR before you can have an opinion, and Mike is closer to having done so than most (and starting with a 9 coach tilting train). Mikes reference of a drawing of "questionable accuracy" was actually directed at the PDH drawing that Hugh has used as primary research. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted January 26, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 26, 2015 Well there are those of us that differ, either way I don't see it as essential to have commisioned your own RTR before you can have an opinion, and Mike is closer to having done so than most (and starting with a 9 coach tilting train). Mikes reference of a drawing of "questionable accuracy" was actually directed at the PDH drawing that Hugh has used as primary research. Jon Jon everyone can have an opinion but I am fed up with the negativity of some people on this forum. Its easy to throw stones but its pretty gutsy trying to bring something to market - its far better if you try and do it - it may be a bit more constructive rather than turning into another whinge.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Hi Just to put the record straight I did say I bought the books but this was not just for the Spa but for other wagons as well. And I did say I knew there was errors on the drawing but it was used to cross reference measurements. And yes I did use BR measurements plus lots of extra info from books ,photos given by friends and fellow RM web members. Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 everyone can have an opinion but I am fed up with the negativity of some people on this forum. Its easy to throw stones but its pretty gutsy trying to bring something to market - its far better if you try and do it - it may be a bit more constructive rather than turning into another whinge.... Barry, that's very emotional language. People who have commented on discrepancies are not "whingers" or displaying "negativity", they are unemotionally comparing a model to the real thing and stating the differences they see. Sometimes these differences are as a result of necessary compromises (e.g. material tolerances) but often they can be corrected. Having a critical eye is something you need as a designer to bring a product to market with as few errors as possible. Speaking as someone who is currently designing their second wagon kit, starting with accurate drawings is a must. Even then, I've never found drawings that don't have a minor error or two in them. It's really really easy to introduce mistakes in the CAD process so the more checks that you can make as you go along the better. There is no substitute for large amounts of prototype research at the early stages of the design process. Ideally, crawl over the wagon yourself with a tape measure (or find someone who has to collaborate with)! Yes it is gutsy of Hugh to bring the SPA to market. It's a great product but still has room for a bit of improvement. Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Bale Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 So when are people supposed to comment? Some commented at the cad stage, they seem to have been ignored and the end result has the same problems that were pointed out. In that regard the Chinese appear to have got the model bob on with regard to what they were given to work with. Trying to some how insinuate that the Chinese have messed up is not really on, especially when it seems that the manufacturer was changed half way though the process anyway. I do subscribe to the if you can't say anything nice say nothing mantra but surely the point of a forum is to discuss things isnt it? If comment on RTR was restricted to just RTR manufacturers then this would be a very dull place indeed. Look at the current MRJ thread, are only those who've had their work published in MRJ allowed an opinion on the magazine then? Transfer what Barry is saying here to that topic and it would appear his answer would be yes. Best regards Simon Edited for spelling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Hi Just to put the record straight I did say I bought the books but this was not just for the Spa but for other wagons as well. And I did say I knew there was errors on the drawing but it was used to cross reference measurements. And yes I did use BR measurements plus lots of extra info from books ,photos given by friends and fellow RM web members. Hugh Hugh, I do hope that doesn't mean you intend to use this book for further wagons, learn the lesson and put the thing in a shredder - then you might actually have demonstrated that this project has taught you something. Its no 'cross-reference' to validate the diagram book, I'm pretty sure that the author has just re-drawn the diagram book (with all of its existing errors and a few more beside) with the aid of a few photos to fill in (but not accurately) some of the details. I've spent thousands of pounds on diagram books and wagon GA's and have virtually every wagon book published, but I haven't bought the PDH books because they are FICTION they are not from measurements of wagons. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 It would be a pity if this thread got locked. It happened, it's a shame but I'm sure that lessons have been learnt. Can we change the tone please? Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted January 27, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2015 Surely the point of a forum is to discuss models, and if that means noting negative elements of a model then it is a means of improving future efforts. In this case I do not see how China can be blamed if they were sent a incorrect information. What annoys me is not that there is anything wrong with the model (for what its worth it looks more than good enough to me) but the attempt to pass the buck onto a CAD designer and ignore the fact that if nobody checked his work then FTG can't really evade responsibility for any resulting errors. Inferring it is a Chinese factory at fault for making what they were asked to make is hardly a commendable line to take. Call me a cynic, but if Bachmann, Dapol, Heljan or Hornby released the model I do not think there'd be any inhibitions about noting any inaccuracies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwales Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Hi Hugh Do you have any plans to do the Hooded SEA version please? Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Hi Ian The hooded wagon is planned for the third batch I am only doing around 600 (two running numbers). If all goes well I am aiming for this to be delivered this year. Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Would it maybe be worth having a separate thread for the SPA and CO2 projects? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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