ChrisB Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 As you're asking Hugh, I'd like 2 x ZAA Pike in Dutch - ideally ones that were repainted fairly early and 1 x ZAA Pike in Railfreight red with the yellow patch.....to save me having to redo one of the standard ones! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Hi The Dutch engineers wagon looking at such as this http://www.garethbayer.co.uk/wotw/wp-content/gallery/great-britain-s-coded/SPA_460246.jpg Now if you look some have full yellow ends nothing has been drawn up as yet let me know what you think Hugh I think the way it works is that if an SPA was repainted as a ZAA 'Pike' (with its doors still functional) then it had grey ends. If it was later converted from a ZAA Pike to an ZCA Sea Hare by having its doors sealed then there was no change to the livery because it wasn't repainted. If a SPA went direct to ZCA Sea Hare and got a repaint at the same time, these seem to have a yellow upper/grey lower end with the same split as the sides. I haven't seen an all yellow end yet, but I can't say I studied the ZCA 'Sea Hare' versions as closely as the 'Sea Urchins'... Statistically speaking grey ends would have been the norm on ZCA's and MAY have been the only option on ZAA - as ever there are plenty of photo's out there to help choose a prototype combination that match the number you choose. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollieollieollie Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Again, as you're asking Hugh, grey ends would be my choice on the dutch liveried ones. Not that it matters that much to me - put me down for 4 anyhow. If you did a run of EWS ones I think they may sell too. Railfreight ones I received look superb by the way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 There were also quite a few mixed air and vacuum formations going to Queenborough Shipbreakers' yard well into the late 80's and possibly later, for scrapping. I guess the same would apply to other scrap / breakers' yards? I didn't know air and vacuum braked wagons would have been mixed in the same train. Would any kind of conversion wagon have had to be coupled between the brake types or would the brakes have been disabled for one type? Would the mixed formation train have had a speed-restriction placed on it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted January 6, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 6, 2015 Similarly braked wagons would be shunted together and the train would run with a fitted head, the rest of the train being unfitted (and hence needing a brake van). Normally which ever were the more numerous would form the head of the train unless used with a loco that could only control one braking system or some other local operating procedures defined otherwise. The exception would be the wagons that were through piped or dual braked - e.g. a vacuum braked wagon fitted with a through air pipes. These could be shunted into the fitted part of the train even though their own brakes would be out of use. Plenty of both types built. Wagons with TOPS codes ending in B were vacuum piped but air braked, those ending in W were vacuum braked with through air brake pipes. Unfitted wagons with through pipes could also be in the fitted head of a train. Happy modelling. Steven B. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Hugh I think the way it works is that if an SPA was repainted as a ZAA 'Pike' (with its doors still functional) then it had grey ends. If it was later converted from a ZAA Pike to an ZCA Sea Hare by having its doors sealed then there was no change to the livery because it wasn't repainted. If a SPA went direct to ZCA Sea Hare and got a repaint at the same time, these seem to have a yellow upper/grey lower end with the same split as the sides. I haven't seen an all yellow end yet, but I can't say I studied the ZCA 'Sea Hare' versions as closely as the 'Sea Urchins'... Statistically speaking grey ends would have been the norm on ZCA's and MAY have been the only option on ZAA - as ever there are plenty of photo's out there to help choose a prototype combination that match the number you choose. Jon Was looking at one like this http://www.garethbayer.co.uk/wotw/great-britain/s-coded/ 5th down 2nd in Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Hugh your link only brings up Gareths s-code page, presumably you mean 460225 with yellow ends. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I didn't know air and vacuum braked wagons would have been mixed in the same train. Would any kind of conversion wagon have had to be coupled between the brake types or would the brakes have been disabled for one type? Would the mixed formation train have had a speed-restriction placed on it? See Steven B's comprehensive explanation. Provided that the train had the minimum required brake force (as explained by Steven), which would be determined by the Working Manual Appendices, the max speed would be determined by the max speed of the slowest wagon. When condemned, it was often the case that some wagons would have an additional speed restriction (perhaps from 60 down to 35mph) placed on them by the Carriage & Wagon peeps, so the loco driver would have to ensure he looked for this on the TOPS consist, and kept to it. This meant that such trips were usually kept to the wee hours. One problem these trips produced was a collection of unnecessary brake vans at the destination. We usually tried to get rid of these on one of the two normal trips to Hoo, for disposal oop north, but these were often at capacity, so sometimes a special was needed consisting only of brake vans plus loco - just like in t'olden days.......BR SR was otherwise fully fitted and only used CABs for nuclear traffic or some engineering trains, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Hugh your link only brings up Gareths s-code page, presumably you mean 460225 with yellow ends. Jon Yes as I stated 5th down 2nd in Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlinb Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Looking forward to the Civil Engineers ones with whatever colour ends and ideally one lettered as a Sea Hare as well as the Pike - I'll be adding some to my 20 Railfreight/CRM ones (and of course adding some SEA's) I'm more sceptical about the EWS livery - its not my era but when buying Bachmann air brake stock I always find the EWS liveries seem to not sell as quickly and most remain available when the A and B versions of Railfreight/Bauxite etc are being released - Also any repaints or conversions I've picked up are normally EWS versions on the box label - could just be the volumes Bachmann produce though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Looking forward to the Civil Engineers ones with whatever colour ends and ideally one lettered as a Sea Hare as well as the Pike - I'll be adding some to my 20 Railfreight/CRM ones (and of course adding some SEA's) I'm more sceptical about the EWS livery - its not my era but when buying Bachmann air brake stock I always find the EWS liveries seem to not sell as quickly and most remain available when the A and B versions of Railfreight/Bauxite etc are being released - Also any repaints or conversions I've picked up are normally EWS versions on the box label - could just be the volumes Bachmann produce though Have to agree EWS is not the best seller as I always see these on clearance from a good few box shifters. But I was also told dutch livery not best of sellers that's why I am only doing 600. Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlinb Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 You could well be right Hugh but Bachmann have only done one so far, the dutch OCA and that's hard to find any of these days. The BDA and VDA were limited edition's and we've yet to see an OBA although its been announced along with a VDA in CIvil Link Main point is anyway that whatever quantity you do of any livery is that they sell out - I'll be sticking me order in for the Dutch ones and SEA's anyway! Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Yes as I stated 5th down 2nd in Your edit must have appeared whilst I was looking at Gareth's website, so I didn't see it, but quoting the wagon number is more reliable, because that website re-grids the photos to fit your screen, so on my desktop its 3rd row down in the sixth column... Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
owentherail Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I would like the older red over head warning signs on the civil wagon too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium amwells Posted January 7, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2015 The Network Rail ones look good too... They may be good sellers given the other (limited) NR releases by both Bachmann and Hornby seemed to be in high demand? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Its arrived, Cheers Hugh, Looks the Dogs whatsits, more pics in the Bitton thread in a mo. Great work Hugh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted January 7, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2015 The Network Rail ones look good too... They may be good sellers given the other (limited) NR releases by both Bachmann and Hornby seemed to be in high demand? IMO - not a good choice of livery for a model. There were only 5 painted in Network Rail yellow and saw little - if any - use. At least three of them have been heavily modified for use with the SITT trains Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 Hi Mick On the subject of livery I thought the Cardiff Rod Mill would sell fast I think it looks great,but I was wrong the plain Railfreight is the one everyone wants and sold to the point around 50 of each left. Now I was told by a few traders Dutch was a slow seller but asked all the time for these. Not really any interest in Loadhaul Few asked for sector ones. Only a few asking for EWS Balfour Beatty no one asked Transrail logo no ones really asked. I do want to work through some of the above in limited quantities but after my 3rd run I can't see any SPA,s for while as the CO2 needs to progress. Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
owentherail Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I better get a couple more quick then as selling so well, civil will sell well, OCAs etc in that livery not that easy to find now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Hi Mick On the subject of livery I thought the Cardiff Rod Mill would sell fast I think it looks great,but I was wrong the plain Railfreight is the one everyone wants and sold to the point around 50 of each left. Now I was told by a few traders Dutch was a slow seller but asked all the time for these. Not really any interest in Loadhaul Few asked for sector ones. Only a few asking for EWS Balfour Beatty no one asked Transrail logo no ones really asked. I do want to work through some of the above in limited quantities but after my 3rd run I can't see any SPA,s for while as the CO2 needs to progress. Hugh Nothing planned in Sodor livery then Hugh? Well, these trucks have been a wee bit troublesome....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyboy Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 and then there are these Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loconuts Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Nothing planned in Sodor livery then Hugh? Well, these trucks have been a wee bit troublesome....... Well the Fat Controller should listen to his CME's recommendations! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bescotbeast Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Finances permitting I'd like another Railfreight and CRM version before they sell out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Hi Mick On the subject of livery I thought the Cardiff Rod Mill would sell fast I think it looks great,but I was wrong the plain Railfreight is the one everyone wants and sold to the point around 50 of each left. Now I was told by a few traders Dutch was a slow seller but asked all the time for these. Not really any interest in Loadhaul Few asked for sector ones. Only a few asking for EWS Balfour Beatty no one asked Transrail logo no ones really asked. I do want to work through some of the above in limited quantities but after my 3rd run I can't see any SPA,s for while as the CO2 needs to progress. Hugh Hugh is it worth doing a survey on here? I would be interested in a couple of transrail and loadhaul ones myself to mix (in a battered state) with a few EWS ones to create an ews era rake. There may be others.... I would also take some Dutch ones. Hope you shift the rest of the first batch quickly - am delighted with mine and would have bought more except for fact that already have a large fleet of cambrians - all painted red (cos that's the only livery I can do neatly!). M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I'd think Dutch livery would be a good choice. Its always easy to add an extra wagon or two to an existing rake of Civil Engineers wagons without needing a full trainload to look right. Of the other options you've listed, I'd have a look at the sector ones and more Railfreight Red/CRM but the other liveries wouldn't really interest me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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