Lime Street Station

[Steve Hewitt]

That's a lovely gantry - presumably LMS UQ signals on an LNWR structure?

 

In which case I'm puzzled by the rocking arms. Are these prototypical or are they a modelling expedient? I'm currently building a smaller LNWR gantry and am trying to get proper cranks to work but the etched versions available from the likes of Wizard are somewhat overscale.

 

Ian

Hi Ian,

 

The full answer is " we're not sure" as far as the cranks or rockers is concerned.

 

If you're looking for cranks, try the ones from Alan Gibson, found on several of his signal etches:

Being prepared.

You need to beef up the pivots to ensure they don't wobble. That pin is less than 0.5mm dia.

 

In use:

 

Hope this is helpful.

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

Steve,

 

I'm going to Warley on Saturday; can't wait! I will have to come along and introduce myself and take a look at that magnificent gantry.

 

Michael

Hi Michael,

 

Look forward to meeting you.

Rob Harrison and I will be sharing duties on my stand.

Hoping to do "One Hour Shifts", but we often end up being both there together as it can get very busy.

 

Steve.

[clecklewyke]

Hi Ian,

 

The full answer is " we're not sure" as far as the cranks or rockers is concerned.

 

If you're looking for cranks, try the ones from Alan Gibson, found on several of his signal etches:

S1120008.JPG

Being prepared.

You need to beef up the pivots to ensure they don't wobble. That pin is less than 0.5mm dia.

 

In use:

S1120010.JPG

 

Hope this is helpful.

Steve.

Thank you Steve.

 

I must say that your gantry is pretty good if all you have for data are those two fuzzy images. I can see that using rocking shafts (torsion bars) instead of cranks will reduce the number of component parts and joints, and hence slop, so would be attractive if there is a prototype for it, and there probably us. Anyway, you've done it so neatly that it looks pretty similar to the rods you can see in most pictures of LNWR style signals - they are so covered in soot and shaded by the walkways that it is very difficult to determine how they are arranged. 

 

I have made up a couple of Gibson signal kits so probably have some smaller cranks in my spares box. Here is the gantry I am currently making - see post No 38. I'm just at the stage of addng the cranks and operating rods.

 

Regards,

 

Ian

[Michael Delamar]

A photo for John of a loco that I know he wants to model for Lime street as it fits right in with the period.

 

http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/p174461547/h2f0127af#h2f0127af

[Class O]

A photo for John of a loco that I know he wants to model for Lime street as it fits right in with the period.

 

http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/p174461547/h2f0127af#h2f0127af

Princess Louise, I sold my handbuilt one recently......

[Steve Hewitt]

Progress on Les's Buffer Stops........

 

Earlier postings from Les showed the 3D Printed buffer stops.

He has now completed the assembly and basic painting of all 16.

 

On Tuesday evening he gave me one at our club meeting to fit the Lighting for the Stop lamp.

 

Here is the result, so far..........

 

This is the design with rounded beam ends, and extra horizontal beam for strength.

 

Here the lamp is lit.

 

The light is from an LED mounted underneath, routed up to the lamp via an optical fibre.

 

This is the turning which will help anchor the assembly and carries the LED and filters.

 

Here the LED is temporarily in place.

 

When the other fifteen have been completed, they will all go off to Rob for weathering before installing on the layout.

 

Steve.

[Brass0four]

Progress on Les's Buffer Stops........

 

Earlier postings from Les showed the 3D Printed buffer stops.

He has now completed the assembly and basic painting of all 16.

 

On Tuesday evening he gave me one at our club meeting to fit the Lighting for the Stop lamp.

 

Here is the result, so far..........

 

P1000623.JPG

This is the design with rounded beam ends, and extra horizontal beam for strength.

 

P1000629.JPG

Here the lamp is lit.

 

P1000625.JPG

The light is from an LED mounted underneath, routed up to the lamp via an optical fibre.

 

P1000630.JPG

This is the turning which will help anchor the assembly and carries the LED and filters.

 

P1000631.JPG

Here the LED is temporarily in place.

 

When the other fifteen have been completed, they will all go off to Rob for weathering before installing on the layout.

 

Steve.

Very Impressive. Profoundly ignorant of such matters, I'm fascinated by the thin diagonal rods. Support under compression? Probably a mile off! lol

 

Tony.

[beast66606]

From what we can determine from the limited photographs available, the LMS installed Round Dolls with U/Q arms on old LNWR Brackets and the Gantry when they removed the old turntable to the North of the platforms.

 

LLS-Plat7-Strtr.jpg

A view from Plat 6, with the U/Q arms on the gantry just visible over the coach roof.

 

vlcsnap-192612.png

The gantry in LNWR days.

 

They did similar we believe on Platforms 10 and 11 when the Turnatble we have on the model was installed.

The middle platforms, un-affected by these changes retained LNWR L/Q signals until the Power Box was installed in early BR days.

 

Further evidence to confirm or correct our assumptions will be very gratefully received!

 

Steve.

 

Hi Steve,

 

To me it (P6) looks like the U/Q arms are on the wooden dolls, so a simple replacement of the L/Q arms with U/Q equivalents.

[trustytrev]

Hello,

        Didn't LNWR wooden posts and dolls have a square taper from bottom to top whereas LMS round post's and dolls where parallel/round their entire length?The dolls on the gantry appear to taper slightly as does the post on the LQ  signal in the background.

trustytrev.

[Steve Hewitt]

Hi Steve,

 

To me it (P6) looks like the U/Q arms are on the wooden dolls, so a simple replacement of the L/Q arms with U/Q equivalents.

 

 

Hello,

        Didn't LNWR wooden posts and dolls have a square taper from bottom to top whereas LMS round post's and dolls where parallel/round their entire length?The dolls on the gantry appear to taper slightly as does the post on the LQ  signal in the background.

trustytrev.

Thanks to you both.

 

Unfortunately, the less clear version of this shot which we had a year or two ago when I built the model seemed to show LMS Steel Dolls!

 

As often happens, a better picture becomes available.

 

A similar thing happened with the first signal I ever modelled!

The Up Home at Oxenholme on the Blackburn Club's layout, was modelled as a round post, until a better picture showed it to be a tall lattice post.

That was a lot easier to replace than a gantry with twelve arms!

 

Ah well, lets hope we can keep it our little secret.

 

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

Very Impressive. Profoundly ignorant of such matters, I'm fascinated by the thin diagonal rods. Support under compression? Probably a mile off! lol

 

Tony.

 

Hi Tony,

 

On the model the "thin diagonal rods" are etches.

 

On the prototype, the top of the buffer structure is a heavey iron casting.

The diagonals are in tension between the casting and the foot of the buffer timber work and pull the whole structure together.

When a load is applied to the buffers, the tension increases in the wrought iron bars, helping to keep the whole thing together.

 

Steve.

[Brass0four]

Hi Tony,

 

On the model the "thin diagonal rods" are etches.

 

On the prototype, the top of the buffer structure is a heavey iron casting.

The diagonals are in tension between the casting and the foot of the buffer timber work and pull the whole structure together.

When a load is applied to the buffers, the tension increases in the wrought iron bars, helping to keep the whole thing together.

 

Steve.

Thanks Steve,

 

I wasn't that for away after all. Lovely etchings and another triumph for you getting everything as right as you possibly can.

 

I've said on other threads - Gilbert's Peterborough North for one - that prototype layouts (so beloved of TW) are becoming historical documents in their own right, fit for public education as well as entertainment. People with lesser standards exhibition-wise, forget that viewers can take what they see as actual fact. On a slightly different tack, I'm reminded of a piece in David Jenkinson's book, where he describes a youngster running steam-age freight without a brake-van. Incredible as this sounds it shows how younger generations can assume the oddest of notions if unchecked. :-)

 

I'm now housebound healthwise so I doubt if I'll ever see the layout but the photographs and video are a great and ongoing pleasure.

 

Tony.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Brass0four

[beast66606]

A similar thing happened with the first signal I ever modelled!

The Up Home at Oxenholme on the Blackburn Club's layout, was modelled as a round post, until a better picture showed it to be a tall lattice post.

 

Hi Steve,

 

I'm not sure I should admit it but that was me who told you about the No.2 Up home with No.1 Outer distant below ! - I do (did, as my memory is fading) know a bit about signalling in the North West, at one time I could recognise most signals (other than straight post plain ones) on the WCML from Crewe to Carlisle, I used to pour over photos and books, nowadays "I know I've seen that somewhere" is more the norm.

[Steve Hewitt]

Thanks Steve,

 

I wasn't that for away after all. Lovely etchings and another triumph for you getting everything as right as you possibly can.

.

.

Snipped

.

.

Tony.

Thanks Tony,

 

All the work on these buffers is by Les Green, who also built all that great Roof.

My contribution has been to add the light!

 

Steve.

[trustytrev]

Hello Steve,

                

Unfortunately, the less clear version of this shot which we had a year or two ago when I built the model seemed to show LMS Steel Dolls!

 

I should admit I cheat a bit nowadays looking at old pictures.I scan them into a computer at high resolution to look at them.It is amazing how much one can blow them up after digitising them.Its a bit like they used to do it with images during the war but on steroids.The grain of pictures seems to be finer the older they are.

trustytrev.

[Les Green]

 

Here they are, the more or less complete working buffer stops for the station. Sixteen in all (Steve has the missing buffer). The next step is to fit the lights in the lamp on the beam and then may be weather them a bit more (over to Rob at that stage).

 

 

Three different types

1. Round ended buffer beam with longitudinal strengthening beam which is the older style and will locate at the platform ends under the older North Roof Canopy.

2. Round ended buffer beam. Similar to above but without the strengthening beam which will locate at the ends of the sidings between the platform tracks.

3. Square ended buffer beam with longitudinal strengthening beam which is the newer style and will locate at the platform ends under the newer South Roof Canopy.

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

Are you going to make those available to others? Rather a shortage of proper stops for passenger terminals on the market.

[Les Green]

Are you going to make those available to others? Rather a shortage of proper stops for passenger terminals on the market.

That was not the original intention. I looked at 3D printing the buffer beams I made and resin casting from a 3D printed components. The break even point was 16 buffers, which is the number we needed. To 3D print individual items and supply the correct springs and buffer heads would cost in the order of £60 per buffer, which I would guess would not be a marketable item.

[clecklewyke]

Could you not lend one to Dave Franks for him to use as a master to add such a lovely buffer stop to his range?

 

It seems such a shame to have put so much effort in to produce a superb article and not to share it.

 

Ian

[Jol Wilkinson]

Could you not lend one to Dave Franks for him to use as a master to add such a lovely buffer stop to his range?

 

It seems such a shame to have put so much effort in to produce a superb article and not to share it.

 

Ian

Ian,

 

looking back through the posts on this topic, it is clear that this complex item doesn't lend itself to a single cast item. So it would need new seperate patteerns to cast it in w/m or resin.

 

Jol

[Steve Hewitt]

Another hard day's graft...............

 

Les, Rob and I have spent today with John, working on the layout:

 

 

 

First we reviewed the new Buffer Stops and decided how they will be installed......

 

 

Rob got on with his development of the Backscene.

(He's not saying a prayer)

 

 

Les is working on the next 3D printing project.

Using his new Laptop

 

 

And of course John was keeping an eye on everything, giving encouragement when necessary!

 

Steve.

[Kenokie]

Strikes me John has got it right .... that's the proper way to build a railway .... get a team and then supervise them .... from a chair ..... with a cup of tea .......... luv it  

 

Chris

[trustytrev]

Hello,

        What is the software Les is using for 3D printing?

trustytrev.

[Les Green]

Hello,

        What is the software Les is using for 3D printing?

trustytrev.

I use AutoCad 2013 for the Mac, Only just transferred from AutoCad 2009 on my old Windows laptop.

[Pete Harvey]

Isn't it fun to get used to version 2013 from an earlier version?