Any info for Weymouth quay railway ?

[Pacific231G]

Just an odd question but does anyone now how the track in the road is constructed. Is it standard sleepered track with tarmac infill or was it laid on concrete like a lot of tram track. It must have been a pig to maintain and check the tightness of fishplate bolts.

 

Jamie

 

It looks to be standard embedded track of the type generally used on quaysides with a continuous check rail. I'm pretty sure that at the time the Weymouth Harbour Tramway was in use this was almost always laid on conventional sleepers with a double shoe (for bullhead rail) to enable the continuous check rail to be laid often with a lighter rail. The road surface would have been built up around the track originally with stone setts or cobbles which could be removed for maintenance or from about the 1920s with concrete which definitely did make track maintenance harder. I assume that there would be enough of a gap between the running and check rails to get at the fishplate bolts but any heavier maintenance did involve breaking up the concrete. This is one reason why embedded track on quaysides tended to get left in place long after it fell into disuse and is often still there covered in tarmac: the cost of lifting it and remaking the road surface simply wasn't justified by the scrap value of the rail. Being confined to very low speeds, quayside track probably didn't need a lot of maintenance and point levers and mechanisms were generally protected by concrete slabs or metal covers that could be removed fairly easily.

There is a good description of this type of track on http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/2-track/02track1.htm.

If you want to really research this it might be worth getting in touch with the Bristol Industrial Museum who operate the Bristol Harbour Railway as a lot of this is inset into the quayside and they must have met any track maintenance issues.

[Gwiwer]

Back to steam days and IIRC the regular motive power was GWR 0-6-0PT types shedded at Weymouth specifically for the job because not a lot else could cope with the tight curvature comfortably. The 204hp diesels (class 03) were later from the Bournemouth allocation in the days when you could still find one or two at Boscombe coal yard as well as a couple down the tramway.

 

Boat trains were replaced by bus connections and the tramway fell out of use much to the relief, it is generally believed, of the local motorist population. Weymouth is a pig of a town to drive to or through at the best of times due largely to its curious geography and the delays caused by boat trains of up to 12 coaches creeping along the tramway brought the town centre to a standstill for upwards of half an hour on occasions.

 

Class 33 locos were the staple in diesel years though WR dmmu sets made visits on occasions with railtours and at least one 3H Thumper has gone down there as well (also on a railtour). Electro-diesels were not used because (at the time they were in traffic) the line west of Branksome was not electrified and they had insufficient diesel power to haul a boat train up to Bincombe. There were also some concerns raised informally by a few staff about their pick-up shoes being vulnerable on the tramway though from what has never been made clear to me.

 

The Olympic Delivery Authority seems to be ignoring the possibility of rail travel to Weymouth. While the town is in the throes of massive and expensive road upheavals to get things into a fit state for 2012 not a penny has been allocated to improve rail links.

 

Quite apart from the tramway there is the critical single line section between Dorchester South and Moreton (which exists thanks to economies made at electrification) and the power supply is said to be under-rated for 10-car trains meaning only one can be west of Wareham at any one time - particularly if it is climbing up to Bincombe on full current draw. The alternative (Paddington - Castle Cary - Weymouth) route is also plagued by single track and some steep sections but could be used by HST specials if stock were available.

 

Neither would have any need to use the tramway. The travel time from the junction to the Quay is far too long to effectively block up the town centre several times every day. Bus transit is (sad to say) more efficient and - given Olympic priority - faster.

[lapford34102]

Hi,

 

Just to flesh out the post war motive power a bit.

1366's - banned for a time as being too heavy ! - replaced with a 74XX which wasn't well liked. Only used for a while till they realised the weight restriction, which also took into account wheelbase which is why the 1366's were suspect, was somewhat conservative.

"stsndard" Panniers

Drewry 204hp shunters

Doncaster 204hp shunters

Ivatt 2MT's

Class 12 0-6-0 350hp shunters - the Ashford built ones with Boxpox wheels. Used as they were air braked but arrived without screwlink couplings. Didn't last long

Class 03's. Air braked and with high level pipes for working with TC units.

Class 33/1's and the occasional 33/0

Western DMMU's in the 80 for a time on service trains to Bristol and Cardiff

 

HTH

 

Stu

[spamcan61]

Funnily enough I ended up in Weymouth today, visiting my mum (who lives on the housing estate on the site of the loco depot). Took a snap of the line from outside McD's, looking north. A tad overgrown, and most of the sleepers look pretty rotten:-

 

EDIT: I wonder how long that signal has been showing a red aspect?

[spamcan61]

Sounds the perfect place for a tram. Pity April 1st has gone 8)

 

There were rumours that a Parry People Mover (ot at least a flyweel powered tram) was going to be tried out about 10 years ago, nothing came of it.

[d600]

Hi a great choice for a layout,the model railway layout i remember was in oo scale an old man and lady used to run it,then they moved down by the old coop for a few years until the old man passed away.I worked in the ferry station building for a while and saw 33's,47's,37's,73's and a few dmu loco's ive still got the platform sign oop's :Dthere was always a few tank wagons in the sidings.The Hornby artical had some good ideas for layouts and would be worth getting hold of a copy.

 

 

cheers

[Paulmjstone]

From the tramway book the rails were laid with sleepers and Check rails(inside rail?) then infilled.

 

Anyone got pointers to any layouts based on the tramway?

 

I was thinking of a N gauge version.....but town bridge to quay would be 45'!

[Isambard Kingdom Brunel]

 

There are other films on You Tube, but, I think this is the best

[Paulmjstone]

Can anyone point me in right direct for some infomation about the Weymouth quay railway , track plan e.t.c as I'm considering doing this as a portable layout .

 

Cheers

As well as Lucking and Beale that Kenton points out there is also some more in :-

 

Branch Lines around Weymouth V.Mitchell & K.Smith Middleton Press 1989 - 2005(3rd reprint) ISBN 0 906520 65 7 has 15 pages of photos and a useful topology map of the line/sidings

Paddington to Weymouth, D.Phillips, Irwell Press Ltd 2012 ISBN 978-1-906919-29-0 has 10 pages and a 1959 OS map of the area.

 

I was thinking of an N gauge version as the town bridge to the quay is about 2000ft+ (check google maps with the scale) which could be a manageable 14ft+ uncompressed !

[rob D2]

I was down there recently to go to sea world with the kids, had a walk along the tramway......amazed they went to the bother onsidering the station isn't a million miles from the quay...the ultimate luxury I guess which wouldn't bear water in the privatised world.

 

I'd still love to see it preserved though, and not ripped up because some dozy cyclist went A over T on it

[Phil Traxson]

Unfortunately the baskets and boxes of Channel island fruit couldn't quite manage the walk from quay to station!!

 

Phil T.

[Kenton]

and the fish and the oil .... and if you think I'm going to get off at Weymouth with all the riff raff going to the beach or that holiday camp!

Edited May 13, 2014 by Kenton

[JZ]

Colleague of mine walked down to the Quay station the other week and noticed new platform edging.

[Horsetan]

I was down there recently to go to sea world with the kids, had a walk along the tramway......amazed they went to the bother onsidering the station isn't a million miles from the quay...the ultimate luxury I guess which wouldn't bear water in the privatised world.

I'd still love to see it preserved though, and not ripped up because some dozy cyclist went A over T on it

The local council now owns the route (I think they bought it from NR for about £50,000) and they have long been wanting to get rid of the rails. It had been their intention to lift the entire stretch, but the cost of doing this and resurfacing would likely tip the council into insolvency. Expect the rail gaps to be filled in instead, as a means of appeasing the (powerful) cycle lobby.

[rob D2]

I'd like to see it retained of course,

It's English eccentricity at its best....it's sad to see the quay so quiet though, there wasn't any departures of the CI ferries for 2 days !

 

I remember it bustling when I went in the mid 80s

[Horsetan]

I'd like to see it retained of course....

That's not going to have any influence on Weymouth & Portland Borough Council, which has something of a track record in not listening to local residents and businesses, and doing its own thing....

[Jenny Emily]

Would it be possible to apply for grade listing of the tramway? Even if no trains use it, it might give the rails being left in situ some kind of protection?

 

When I lived in Bonn briefly, there were thousands of cyclists, and none of them seemed to have any great issue with the (still in use) tram system. We just learnt to be careful! I was told on day one "Remember - there's only so far you can cycle in a straight line before you fall over" as a warning not to let the bicycle wheels slot into the grooves on the move.

[Suzie]

Time to legislate for safer bicycles with wide tyres. It is not like trams are going away - they are popping up all over the place!

[Horsetan]

Would it be possible to apply for grade listing of the tramway? Even if no trains use it, it might give the rails being left in situ some kind of protection?

 

When I lived in Bonn briefly, there were thousands of cyclists, and none of them seemed to have any great issue with the (still in use) tram system. We just learnt to be careful! I was told on day one "Remember - there's only so far you can cycle in a straight line before you fall over" as a warning not to let the bicycle wheels slot into the grooves on the move.

 

The German approach to cycling tends to be somewhat more common sense than our lot. Whatever happened to the old Cycling Proficiency Test that was commonplace in schools during the 1970s?

 

I'm not sure whether English Heritage would grade-list a tramway route.

[Gwiwer]

The risk-averse society needs to take a step back and another sideways.  

 

How many accidents were caused, relative to miles cycles and miles of tramway laid, in the streets of London long before motor vehicles were so common as they now are?  Or indeed in any other city which had a large tram network?

 

Today in Melbourne, Australia, where I speak from first-hand daily commuting experience there are very few.  The tram network is usually now quoted as the largest in the World and includes many major city-centre streets also extending many miles (or kilometres) into suburbia.  Yes there are a very few incidents of cyclists being "tram-lined" but with thousands (possibly tens of thousands) of cyclists on the road every day sharing around 180 miles of their streets with trams (or put another way that's a total of over 700 miles of individual rails they might get trapped in) I was only aware of around one incident a year when I worked for the tramways.

 

All road users must take fair responsibility for themselves.  It's fine for Weymouth to infill the small flange gap if they really want to but do it in such a way that if needed be the tramway can be brought back into use fairly easily.  A simple infill of bitumen is all that's needed for that.  

Edited May 20, 2014 by Gwiwer

[uax6]

Ah, but you can't use bitumen anymore! Have you noticed that all the repairs to the roads that are now being done don't have any bitumen around the edges to seal them to the exisiting tarmac? Apprently (from the road gang I spoke too) they aren't allowed to do it as it reduces grip on that small section of surface.

 

So as usual the safety brigrade have got in the way, and now what we get instead is the repair doesn't last as it's not bonded in!

 

The world is going mad I tell you!

 

Andy g

[Gwiwer]

 

 

you can't use bitumen anymore! Have you noticed that all the repairs to the roads that are now being done don't have any bitumen around the edges to seal them to the exisiting tarmac?

 

A different use of the same language.  I'm in Australia.  "Bitumen" here is the same stuff  as "Tarmac" in the UK.  Tarmac is not a term used here.  

 

I agree the little rubbery seals are no longer found around road repairs.

[Horsetan]

...So as usual the safety brigade have got in the way....

 

The safety brigade are very often driven by insurers....

[PaulCheffus]

Time to legislate for safer bicycles with wide tyres. It is not like trams are going away - they are popping up all over the place!

 

Hi

 

Which would make peddling the bike harder as there would be more rubber in contact with the road. I think its up to the cyclist to avoid the lines they are easy enough to see.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[bike2steam]

The bitumen infill was responsible for many motorcycle accidents, especially on bends in the road, so good to see the 'safety brigade' got something right .