David Bigcheeseplant Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Trainwest generally wins on layout content with those shows but is way behind shows like Railex when it comes to traders and even layouts. For me it is close if not top of the second league. Perhaps up there alongside Southampton, Basingstoke, Abingdon? Nice to think Railex is in the top league of shows, but would be interesting to see a league table of shows and who may be in each table, Not too sure it is has had a mention on here but Scalefourum is moving to Stoke Mandeville stadium in 2013. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Not too sure it is has had a mention on here but Scalefourum is moving to Stoke Mandeville stadium in 2013. Probably a good move as long as it does not move to May as well. Though I worry a little when the specialist shows move venue quite some distance. The classic here being ExpoEM, where the move to Bracknell certainly gives it a better venue but moving further south has virtually eliminated EMSouth and disenfranchised many who now find it difficult to attend from the Midlands. Although I too would support some sort of league, I think that there is a great dependency of opinion on the location of the punter, the reasons for attending, and perhaps on the narrow minded choice of scale/gauge/etc. So perhaps it is best left to individuals. I have my list and that is probably never going to match someone who is based in "the north" I can only go on shows that I have attended (sadly that is too few up north). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 League? Some shows are in a league of their own. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 Trainwest generally wins on layout content with those shows but is way behind shows like Railex when it comes to traders... Fair enough. The obvious question is which traders would you like to see at Trainwest? I will be adding more trade content next year so who should I invite? Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Fair enough. The obvious question is which traders would you like to see at Trainwest? I will be adding more trade content next year so who should I invite? Geoff Endacott I gave a brief list back in the other "pub" but could extend it, though I think you will get the gist from that. There could be other suppliers to entice in the punters from other gauges particularly when you are having quality layouts representing those gauges. Now I understand that some of these suppliers are a bit picky over the number of shows they attend but perhaps some innovative charging or association to a group of layouts might encourage them. Looking at one of the suppliers expo diaries (AG) they are attending a pretty good balance of shows both north and south so might be difficult. But I feel the only way to get upu the league and compete with the likes of Railex is to get this trade back out of their sheds. Of course there is the position of being relaxed about what and where you are now. Do you need the hassle and extra effort/work to go somewhere that could mean bigger venue? I am fairly unusual in that the trade is more important. Probably being in the minority and being far flung from Trainwest probably unimportant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 League ?? Why do we need to put everything in leagues ?? Fed up with successive governments and their feckin' league tables. League tables were also the bane of the last few years with NR - with everything measured by league tables - resulting in DU's chasing league positions rather than maintaining the railway properly...........rant off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 League ??  Why do we need to put everything in leagues ?? It is just a word, a simple word to to define a sorted list. If you go to several shows are there not shows that you value above others, for whatever reason; shows that you make every attempt to attend; shows that you feel need your personal support, perhaps because you are a member of the presenting club; and other shows that you have experience of being good or not so good? It is a fact of life that we make comparisons and have preferences. We will certainly not agree on them all but there can be a general consensus. I'm not sure where you get the idea the government will be involved, or their particular relevance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted April 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 6, 2012 Leagues? But we each judge shows by different criteria so I think they would be very misleading to someone newer to the hobby who might go to a top league show and find it's heavily dominated by specialists which might actually discourage them. Groups like the 2mmFS, DEMU etc would each have a different view too. Leagues by numbers attending are also misleading if some peoples comments on Warley are anything to go by. For a good all round show aimed at enthusiasts and public Trainwest scores highly for me alongside the likes of ExpoNG which wouldn't have anything of interest to someone just starting in OO. What if whoever compiled the league table considered it had a poor set of layouts one year? I think reputation and photos and feedback on forums are much more useful for decision making then compiling a league table. In a similar way show websites pre publishing lists of layouts with scale and subject and traders with basic detail of what they sell is much more likely to encourage people than a league table. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Its Ok inviting traders, but its depends on if they want to come to your show, they need to cover there expenses and make a profit they are not there just to make up the numbers. At Railex I have a healthy waiting list and now only invite new traders if they manufacture their own range of parts or do not directly conflict with an existing trader. For example I have had Eileen Emporium from the very first year and I think they both attract modellers and give an exhibition an edge as a modeller’s show, interesting to see that Eileen’s don’t attend Ally Pally even though this is a bigger show with more visitors than Railex. It took me a few years to get traders such as High Level and Alan Gibson on board, but now are regulars. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted April 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 6, 2012 anyhoo here's one thing that will be there to be rated Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted April 7, 2012 Author Share Posted April 7, 2012 I'm not sure that anything is going to be rated this year. Although we have a lot of potential candidates, I have not yet heard whether or not the RMweb award is still running. Geoff Endacott Trainwest - top of the league of shows called Trainwest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Temeraire Posted April 7, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 7, 2012 anyhoo here's one thing that will be there to be rated And all four of us are coming to rate it mate! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 I have found the ideal specialist manufacturer to invite to Trainwest next year: http://www.paradisecheesecakes.co.uk/ . Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nile Posted April 9, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 9, 2012 Perhaps if you became Railex-West.It seems to be a popular name. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Perhaps if you became Railex-West.It seems to be a popular name. There is only one Railex, I am not too sure of the other shows with a suffix or a prefix to the name, but we have been using the name since the early 1970s I this LMS forever on this forum came up with the name origanally when he was the first exhibition manager. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 There is only one Trainwest. The name is protected so that no one else can use it. I have always found it odd that other shows use the term Railex in one form or another. At least none of them is anywhere near Aylesbury so there can be little chance of confusion with the original. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSG Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 There is only one Trainwest. The name is protected so that no one else can use it. I have always found it odd that other shows use the term Railex in one form or another. At least none of them is anywhere near Aylesbury so there can be little chance of confusion with the original. Railex is an obvious abbreviation for "Railway Exhibition". It also has several other uses outside model railways (including, oddly enough, filing cabinets). So it's probably too generic a term to be able to protect in this area without a trademark. To stop other groups using a name the only practical solution is to trademark it. There isn't really any other effective way of ensuring that you control the name. But trademarks are expensive, and probably beyond the means of most model railway clubs and societies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 To stop other groups using a name the only practical solution is to trademark it. There isn't really any other effective way of ensuring that you control the name. But trademarks are expensive, and probably beyond the means of most model railway clubs and societies. Am I the only one to wonder what the world of railway modelling has come down to when there are thoughts about trademarking the name of model railway shows? Does it really matter if there are many Railex wannabes? Or train shows in the Wild West? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSG Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Am I the only one to wonder what the world of railway modelling has come down to when there are thoughts about trademarking the name of model railway shows? Does it really matter if there are many Railex wannabes? Or train shows in the Wild West? Personally, I don't think it does matter, at least for club shows. For commercial organisers then it is a bit more important, because the name is all part of the brand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 The name matters when you are forced to change venue - as was the case five years ago with Trainwest. When Trainwest moved from Chippenham to Melksham, it was clear that it was the same show in a different town because the name was the same. When we have to move again (now looking like 2015 or 2016) Trainwest will probably move to yet another town. The show will still be called Trainwest so people will know that it is the same show - wherever it is held. You don't need trademark protection for the name of a show. I said that the name Trainwest is protected and it is - by copyright. If you have invented a name (as is the case with Trainwest) copyright protection is automatic. Copyright costs nothing. Why would I waste money on lawyers' fees which can otherwise go towards covering the costs of better layouts? There is only one Trainwest - and it takes place next weekend. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSG Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 You don't need trademark protection for the name of a show. I said that the name Trainwest is protected and it is - by copyright. If you have invented a name (as is the case with Trainwest) copyright protection is automatic. Copyright costs nothing. Why would I waste money on lawyers' fees which can otherwise go towards covering the costs of better layouts? That's is very definitely not true. A name that consists solely of two already existing words is far too short to be subject to copyright. There's a long established principle that words and short phrases (such as record and book titles) aren't subject to copyright. And, just as with "Railex", there are already several other organisations using the name "Trainwest", including, for example, http://www.trainwest.com.au/ - if the name was subject to copyright then it wouldn't be possible for all of them to use it as well. What might be possible, if someone else were to start a model railway exhibition in the UK called "Trainwest", would be an action for "passing off". But that would be expensive, and wouldn't necessarily succeed. You'd have to prove to the satisfaction of the court that the usurper was not merely using the name but also pretending to be you - that is, not just that they were another Trainwest as well as yours but that they were falsely giving the impression that their show is "the" Trainwest instead of yours. http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p18_copyright_names goes into this in some detail, for anyone who's interested. The reality is that exhibition organisers have to accept that coming up with a catchy name doesn't grant them any rights to it unless they're prepared to spend real money on it. Ultimately, you have to rely on the goodwill of your fellow modellers that other people either won't use it at all, or won't use it in a way which conflicts too much with yours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 When we moved Railex from a single day show in the town centre to a much bigger two day show at Stoke Mandeville Stadium I did concider changing the name from Railex to something else but kept it as it was, We had been the longest users of the name but even in 2005 there was a Rail-Ex in Taunton, its just that in the last few years there has been Railex North East and Midland Railex, I do get emails from people thinking I have something to do with these other shows and wanting to book trade space, maybe I should say yes and see what happens!! Anyway I think most people know what Railex is and where it is. I must admit I was a little ticked off when another show used the style of our advert with the same layout and wording as a basis for there show a few years back David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimitrain Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Are we parking behind the hall again this year? Thanks Jaeson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 TWhat might be possible, if someone else were to start a model railway exhibition in the UK called "Trainwest", would be an action for "passing off". But that would be expensive, and wouldn't necessarily succeed. You'd have to prove to the satisfaction of the court that the usurper was not merely using the name but also pretending to be you - that is, not just that they were another Trainwest as well as yours but that they were falsely giving the impression that their show is "the" Trainwest instead of yours. I think that sounds a bit like bullying tacktics. We will threaten you with legal action and you will jump first because our lawyers are bigger than yours. I still do not see the point of the squabble over what is simply a name and a pretty poor derivative of a name IMO. I think all the punters and trade know exactly they are attending and it is up to the show to advertise it. Sure it would get a little mad if every show was called "Model Railway Show UK" but I don't think the collective organisers are even that daft. Remind me, you do occasionally talk to each other? As for the big commercial shows, the likes of NEC and Ally Pally - I just don't care about them or for them. What they do to each other is up to them as long as they don't bully the smaller shows. In fact I think the hobby would be better off without them sucking the blood out of other shows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 Are we parking behind the hall again this year? Thanks Jaeson Yes, but not in exactly the same place we used last year. The council have let the old field to a farmer for grazing sheep! Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.