Michael Delamar Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 Coalite by Paulio!, on Flickr 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted November 6, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 6, 2013 That picture is back to front. See the wagon numbers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 well spotted, another nice one.. CORRALL QUEEN Corralls Wharf Southampton 10.71 by George of Dufton, on Flickr 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 one to the left of shot MV Glen Shiel taking on coal at Troon in the 1960's by Scottish Maritime Museum - SMM, on Flickr 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Amazing amount of Railway history in this view: http://www.time-capsules.co.uk/picture/number3770.asp Oh! and a couple of 16tonners loaded with Scrap... Porcy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SHMD Posted November 6, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 6, 2013 ^ I counted 5 16 tonners' stripes in that photo. (Just!) Kev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I counted 5 16 tonners' stripes in that photo. Pedant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Post 1463 - that 2nd photo has resolved a query I had, what was this wagon for http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/internaluser/e3a595fcb see the one next to the loco. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asa Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Some great photos guys,I'm really enjoying them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 No pictures or models but perhaps some useful information. I've recently been developing a number of 16T mineral wagon chassis and I thought it would be interesting to see just how the BR 16T mineral fleet broke down into different types. I have posted this elsewhere but I thought this would be a good place to put is as well. The wagons are arranged by body and brake type rather than diagram number as these are the most obvious differences for us modellers. I cannot guarantee the complete accuracy of the figures. The lists from which I got the numbers do have some errors in them and the figures themselves have been rounded slightly (as well as there being the possibility of errors in my adding) but they will at least give a flavour of how things were and how your model 16T mineral fleet should roughly break down. I have assumed the ‘standard’ mineral wagon was a welded body with top doors and Morton 2 shoe brake vehicle. Wagons are assumed to have top doors unless noted. The figures include wagons built for LMS and LNER orders as well as the Ministry of Transport (M.O.T.). The following gives the situation in 1959 at the completion of the building program. The ‘standard’ mineral dominates but not perhaps by as much as you would think. The figures are for the total number built and percentage of the total fleet. M.O.T, independent, slope sided 1/100 7900 2.55% M.O.T, independent, straight sided 1/101 & 1/113 900 0.29% French type, independent 1/112 7000 2.26% Welded, independent, no top door 1/102 21600 6.98% Welded, independent 1/104, 1/106, 1/108, 1/111 20550 6.63% Welded, Morton (‘standard’) 1/106, 1/108, 1/111, 1/114 200900 64.88% 1/116, 1/117 Welded, unfitted clasp 1/108, 1/117 1900 0.61% Welded, vacuum fitted clasp 1/108, 1/117 11350 3.67% Riveted, independent, no top door 1/103 7850 2.54% Riveted, independent 1/105, 1/109 5200 1.68% Riveted, Morton 1/109 24300 7.85% Riveted, vacuum fitted clasp 1/109 200 0.06% Total 309650 Obviously these figures will have varied over time. The earlier you go the less ‘standard’ and clasp braked minerals there would be as we will see in a moment. The later you go the less independent braked types there would have been. The M.O.T. and French types for example had all but gone by the mid-sixties. The four shoe vacuum brake conversions would also need to be added in from 1966. The following gives the rough situation around the start of 1955. There were of course orders in progress at the time so the figures for the ‘standard’ and riveted Morton wagons are a best guess. M.O.T, independent, slope sided 1/100 7900 4.58% M.O.T, independent, straight sided 1/101 & 1/113 900 0.52% French type, independent 1/112 7000 4.06% Welded, independent, no top door 1/102 21600 12.52% Welded, independent 1/104, 1/106, 1/108, 1/111 20550 11.91% Welded, Morton (‘standard’) 1/106, 1/108, 1/111, 1/114 86500 50.13% 1/116, 1/117 Riveted, independent, no top door 1/103 7850 4.55% Riveted, independent 1/105, 1/109 5200 3.01% Riveted, Morton 1/109 15050 8.72% Total 172550 So what does this all mean? Well if you model circa 1960 and have 30 steel minerals on your layout then roughly 10 of them should be non-‘standard’ types with perhaps 2 welded, independent, no top door; 2 welded, independent and 2 riveted types. If you model circa 1955 then roughly half of your steel mineral fleet should be non-‘standard' types. Perhaps ‘standard’ wasn’t quite so standard… All this information is in a handy download and keep word document attached to this post. Justin 16T Mineral Fleet Survey.doc 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted November 8, 2013 Author Share Posted November 8, 2013 Colin Garrett has plenty in his flickr account, i liked these shots.. M001-00666.jpg by Colin Garratt, on Flickr M001-00667.jpg by Colin Garratt, on Flickr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted November 9, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2013 No pictures or models but perhaps some useful information. I've recently been developing a number of 16T mineral wagon chassis and I thought it would be interesting to see just how the BR 16T mineral fleet broke down into different types. Much edited by Clive So what does this all mean? Well if you model circa 1960 and have 30 steel minerals on your layout then roughly 10 of them should be non-‘standard’ types with perhaps 2 welded, independent, no top door; 2 welded, independent and 2 riveted types. If you model circa 1955 then roughly half of your steel mineral fleet should be non-‘standard' types. Perhaps ‘standard’ wasn’t quite so standard… Justin Hi Justin Wow excellent work. I would slightly disagree with your ratio of model types, mainly because the little blighters in real life would not keep to the same ratio when in a train. Seriouly it is a good guide for those modelling the 1960s when most of these would be seen together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Hi Justin Wow excellent work. I would slightly disagree with your ratio of model types, mainly because the little blighters in real life would not keep to the same ratio when in a train. Seriouly it is a good guide for those modelling the 1960s when most of these would be seen together. Hi Clive, Yes of sourse there would have been wild variation from the numbers I suggested for a train but the figures do make the point that not all minerals were 1/108s. This is all a rough guide but hopefully it will provide a useful insight into the 16T mineral fleet for some. It has for me at least. I can reasonably get away with building more non-'standard' types than I thought. Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellowbirds Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Page 84 in the November 2013 BRILL shows in the lower picture a steel mineral wagon. Judging by the end door and the tapered top ends to the side door posts could this be one of the elusive (in BR service) Dia 1/101s? Perhaps Mr Bartlett could confirm or deny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 I've just finished another one. A Dia. 1/108 from a Parkside kit. I've tried to make it look like the body has been patched and the new metal left unpainted, save for the lettering patches and end stripe. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SHMD Posted November 9, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2013 ^ I'm sorry Ruston but you have posted that in the wrong thread! It should be in “How realistic are your models? Photo challenge.” and certainly wouldn't look out of place in the “UK Prototype Discussions (not questions!)” topic! Stunning stuff. Kev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted November 10, 2013 Author Share Posted November 10, 2013 colour shot of a cupboard door one.. http://www.flickr.com/photos/64518788@N05/9272553337/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted November 10, 2013 Author Share Posted November 10, 2013 British steel corp.. http://www.flickr.com/photos/64518788@N05/8909379305/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwich station Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I've just finished another one. A Dia. 1/108 from a Parkside kit. I've tried to make it look like the body has been patched and the new metal left unpainted, save for the lettering patches and end stripe. Nice job Dave. Is this in 4mm or 7mm scale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Page 84 in the November 2013 BRILL shows in the lower picture a steel mineral wagon. Judging by the end door and the tapered top ends to the side door posts could this be one of the elusive (in BR service) Dia 1/101s? Perhaps Mr Bartlett could confirm or deny. That is not a 16 ton mineral, it is a 13tonner. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/steelmineral Paul Ps and don't overlook there were Private trader steel 16ton minerals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 colour shot of a cupboard door one.. http://www.flickr.com/photos/64518788@N05/9272553337/ Really nice comparison of BR standard Grey! Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 British steel corp.. http://www.flickr.com/photos/64518788@N05/8909379305/ That isn't a 16 ton mineral. A nice photo of 26 or 27ton iron ore tippler , as in the later part of this collection http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bscotippler Nice photo of it with the TOPS fleet number. Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 As I am aiming for the years 75 to 80, would there be any clasp braked 16 tonners left unbraked? or would they have all been fitted by this time? Also , would any unfitted clasp braked ones have been rebuilt with new bodies and left unbraked or if the bodies were being rebuilt would they have been converted to vac braked at the same time as the body being rebuilt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 As I am aiming for the years 75 to 80, would there be any clasp braked 16 tonners left unbraked? or would they have all been fitted by this time? Also , would any unfitted clasp braked ones have been rebuilt with new bodies and left unbraked or if the bodies were being rebuilt would they have been converted to vac braked at the same time as the body being rebuilt? I saw one of the unfitted, clasp-braked 16-tonners when doing my daily wagon survey at BSC Landore which would have been summer/Christmas 1974- is that close enough? I may have got the number recorded somewhere; at the time, I painted appropriately-modified Airfix kits with the numbers from the prototypes I recorded; I think this one's still about. I'm not sure they'd have held up the 'production line' for the rebodying in order to fit vacuum brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 As I am aiming for the years 75 to 80, would there be any clasp braked 16 tonners left unbraked? or would they have all been fitted by this time? Also , would any unfitted clasp braked ones have been rebuilt with new bodies and left unbraked or if the bodies were being rebuilt would they have been converted to vac braked at the same time as the body being rebuilt? Largely unrebuilt, 1978 http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmineralweld/e28cd6868 Replated 1978 http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmineralweld/e2455ecdc I don't believe any effort was made to vacuum brake the clasp brake ones built without VB - it was the Morton brake that was used for VB later on - having learnt their lesson that clasp brake and end door unloading (which required the axle to be grasped) didn't mix. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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