Adam's EM Workbench: Farewell for now

[Horsetan]

If you were going to make the Terrier buffers sprung, how would you hide the "tails"?

[Adam]

If you were going to make the Terrier buffers sprung, how would you hide the "tails"?

 

Well I'm not so it's moot.

 

The solution, if you must have sprung buffers, would be to come up with some sort of self-contained arrangement - tricky - or to model one of the class that had lower mounted buffers. The Dapol/Hornby buffer beams are extremely thick and too tall so perhaps the Albion kit available from Roxey would be the route to go with.

 

Adam

[Adam]

Some further development on the Italian ferry van, preparatory work for the roof in the form of a central rib to prevent sagging and some transverse ribs to support a 40 thou' sub roof over which - owing to the design of the real thing - there are a couple more layers to go.

 

 

 

The holes in the flat sub roof will be well-vented to allow fumes from the solvent to escape.

 

 

 

Also added are the curious things below the buffers - they're often referred to as lashing points but photos of the wagons show that they were never used for that on train ferries at least. Lots more detail still to add, of course.

 

Adam

Edited February 5, 2023 by Adam

[Zero Gravitas]

 

Also added are the curious things below the buffers - they're often referred to as lashing points but photos of the wagons show that they were never used for that on train ferries at least. Lots more detail still to add, of course.

 

Adam

I've also heard them refered to as "commode handles" - although without a definitive explanation of why. Lots of continental stock had them, including the "French" mineral wagons with the cupboard doors. They don't seem strong enough to lash a loaded wagon, and so the best reason I can come up with is a a grab handle for the shunter as they ducked under the buffer to couple/uncouple - but why were they felt unnecessary in the UK?

 

As so often, more questions than answers...

 

Z.G.

[Adam]

...so the best reason I can come up with is a a grab handle for the shunter as they ducked under the buffer to couple/uncouple - but why were they felt unnecessary in the UK?

 

As so often, more questions than answers...

 

Z.G.

 

That's my best guess too - different ideas and practises I guess, much like the preponderance of self-contained buffers and longer wheelbases on the continent (and three holes on our disc wheels). 

 

Thanks again,

 

Adam

[Steadfast]

Evening Adam,

Despite being totally different scale and era to my modelling, your thread is one I always like checking out for updates. The old adage, good modelling is good modelling definitely applies here!

The hoops under the buffers are handrails, they make climbing in and out much easier. I don't know why British stock was slow to gain these, some of the earliest were the German built hoppers for Yeoman, now with continental interoperability all stock is being built with them

 

Jo

[Michael Delamar]

Yep handrails, I shunt with STVA wagons that have them, and its better than holding on to the buffer shank when you go in between and getting grease and dirt on your arms.

[Adam]

Thanks both - as I suspected then, continental practice brought into UK use. 'Not invented here' is probably the answer - the UK was extremely conservative in these things: the generator sets and lighting rigs eventually fitted to Seacows were originally proposed by the civil engineers in the early '60s. They were deemed 'not British practise' by the rolling stock bods and the proposal rejected!

 

Actually, the earliest applications on UK stock that I know of date to the Second World War. The 'SNCF' type minerals (an odd mix of British and European practice) and the slope-sided types (a stock Chas Roberts design with minor modifications) had them as well and in some cases, retained them in BR use:

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brsncfmineral/h22f2461f#h22f2461f

 

The question that springs to mind is this - do they actually help? I can see that they should, but equally, I can imaging finding all manner of ways to bang my head on the things...

 

Adam

Edited March 27, 2016 by Adam

[Steadfast]

Yeah they do help, you can support yourself on it as you go under the buffer rather than putting a hand on the ballast or attempting to grab hold around the buffer shank as Mike mentioned. Some wagons have another handrail on the top edge of the buffer beam, I tend to be left hand on the one under the buffer, slider under then pull myself upright with my right hand on the one on top of the bufferbeam. 66s and 59s have little steps below the buffers for climbing up the cab front, these are also handy to cling onto, as is the plough on a 60.

It's interesting to see the handles fitted to some British wagons that old, I'd genuinely never realised they were on anything non Euro before the 1980s! As you say it's probably because they're 'non British' and the story about the generators i can well believe!

 

Jo

[Adam]

Yeah they do help, you can support yourself on it as you go under the buffer rather than putting a hand on the ballast or attempting to grab hold around the buffer shank as Mike mentioned. Some wagons have another handrail on the top edge of the buffer beam, I tend to be left hand on the one under the buffer, slider under then pull myself upright with my right hand on the one on top of the bufferbeam. 66s and 59s have little steps below the buffers for climbing up the cab front, these are also handy to cling onto, as is the plough on a 60.

It's interesting to see the handles fitted to some British wagons that old, I'd genuinely never realised they were on anything non Euro before the 1980s! As you say it's probably because they're 'non British' and the story about the generators I can well believe!

 

Jo

 

Hi Jo - the story about generators is quoted from SR wagons volume 4 (I believe that Gerry Bixley, one of the authors, worked in the relevant department and was citing contemporary documents) - see below for an important correction! As you say, it has the ring of truth! My experience of shunting is limited to 4mm so an insight into the real thing is interesting. Thanks again.

 

Adam

Edited March 31, 2016 by Adam

[Michael Delamar]

European wagons, they put handles under the buffers to help you , but then they go and give you tiny little handbrake wheels.

 

Anyway, great work as usual Adam.

[Fat Controller]

European wagons, they put handles under the buffers to help you , but then they go and give you tiny little handbrake wheels.

 

Anyway, great work as usual Adam.

That's because they tend to use chocks to secure stable wagons, rather than handbrakes- I've seen a grain hopper, built as late as 1968, that had neither power, nor hand, brakes.

[Porcy Mane]

I've also heard them refered to as "commode handles" - although without a definitive explanation of why.

It would be interesting to hear what our European railway neighbours call these handles.

Excuse the contradiction in terms but I think the naming of these small handles, using what was basically an anglicised French word was probably purely a UK thing.

My reasoning being that the term "commode handle" is usually used on a great deal of official wagon drawings to describe any small handle .

 

The purpose of these metal disks that remained on each corner on some French minerals wagons (but removed from others) has me baffled.

 

Anybody know what their use was?

 

P

[Fat Controller]

Jacking points?

[Porcy Mane]

Jacking points?

I put that theory to to a retired railwayman who had worked of breakdown cranes and he said no. His reasons were many and included, was too small of a "target", just Jack orf* the corner as it's stronger and wouldn't deform, he and most of his colleagues would use the buffer housing in the first instance etc.

He wasn't aware of "Continental ways"

 

P

* Jack Orf used as rude filter doesn't allow "jack *off*"

Edited March 28, 2016 by Porcy Mane

[Adam]

Fabulous! I can see that my version is going to have to be recalled for some extra work...

 

 

Still, it probably is 10 years old at least. Hand lettered 'Not to be used...' too. Not sure that I could do that again!

 

Adam

Edited March 28, 2016 by Adam

[brightspark]

 

"Hi Jo - the story about generators is quoted from SR wagons volume 4 (I believe that Gerry Bixley, one of the authors, worked in the relevant department and was citing contemporary documents); as you say, it has the ring of truth! My experience of shunting is limited to 4mm so an insight into the real thing is interesting. Thanks again."

 

Gerry Bixley says it wasn't him, wot wrote this, it was Alan Blackburn who did work on the Railways. They did ask for generators based on class 33s but they ended up with portable generators because only the Southern had 33s.

[Adam]

"Hi Jo - the story about generators is quoted from SR wagons volume 4 (I believe that Gerry Bixley, one of the authors, worked in the relevant department and was citing contemporary documents); as you say, it has the ring of truth! My experience of shunting is limited to 4mm so an insight into the real thing is interesting. Thanks again."

 

Gerry Bixley says it wasn't him, wot wrote this, it was Alan Blackburn who did work on the Railways. They did ask for generators based on class 33s but they ended up with portable generators because only the Southern had 33s.

 

Mis-remembered on my part - should have checked the book myself, so thanks for clarifying.

 

Even so, the bane of 'not invented here' was especially pronounced on the steam-era railway and survives to a certain extent even now: I've heard modern railwaymen talk of 'Paddington' or 'Waterloo' as though they were special sorts of obscenity, perhaps requiring complicated equipment. 'Waterloo' incidentally, being reckoned - even ten years back, I wouldn't like to say whether that still holds - to care more about timekeeping than the 'Western'...

 

Adam

[hmrspaul]

It would be interesting to hear what our European railway neighbours call these handles.

Excuse the contradiction in terms but I think the naming of these small handles, using what was basically an anglicised French word was probably purely a UK thing.

My reasoning being that the term "commode handle" is usually used on a great deal of official wagon drawings to describe any small handle .

CommodeHdetail.JPG

 

The purpose of these metal disks that remained on each corner on some French minerals wagons (but removed from others) has me baffled.

16TonFrenchShildonDetail.jpg

 

Anybody know what their use was?

 

P

I've always understood they were for rope shunting - horses, capstans etc. Very common in 1945. Capstan shunting was used inside many sheds as having a locomotive in such situations was unsuitable, and usually prohibited.

 

Paul

[Adam]

Gradually, the loco is coming to life - it now has a full set of boiler handrails, vacuum ejector pipework (an SR retrofit - no two were alike). The smokebox has also acquired rivets (Archer's Transfers) applied over Klear and sealed with more of the same - I used a spot of Microsol to help them the transfer film sit right and the effect looks quite good but we'll see what it looks like under paint. There's a blower pipe on the right hand side of the boiler to go on and then the boiler will be painted - being a shed pet most of the pipework was burnished and will have to be added once paint and lining is in place.

 

 

Work has now moved on to the cab. The back sheet has had window bars added (fuse wire, soldered to strips of scrap etch). Most of this will be invisible...

 

 

With the coal rails added, you may wonder if that was worth the effort! What unquestionably was is the enlargement of the tool box on the back of the bunker: normal size toolbox, tiny wee loco. I've also plugged the holes for the Westinghouse pump prior to adding a Gibson brass item (again, this will have to be pre-painted). Thank heaven for transfer lining...

 

 

Adam

[ullypug]

just a few photos of the coil hood wagon which duly appeared on Hebble Vale yesterday at Expo EM. Quite what that load was doing in West Yorkshire is anyone's guess!

[Adam]

Thanks for that Andrew - courtesy of Karl Crowther, one of my pair of Coil Rs was parked up on his Hebble Vale Goods for much of Sunday at Expo EM. Doubtless some business in west Yorkshire might have had a use for tinplate coils and who knows, BR might have used one of their Coil R fleet to deliver it? Still it looks the part, I think.

Adam

[Fat Controller]

Thanks for that Andrew - courtesy of Karl Crowther, one of my pair of Coil Rs was parked up on his Hebble Vale Goods for much of Sunday at Expo EM. Doubtless some business in west Yorkshire might have had a use for tinplate coils and who knows, BR might have used one of their Coil R fleet to deliver it? Still it looks the part, I think.

Adam

It looks very nice, Adam- perhaps Metal Box had a plant nearby? They seem to have had factories all over the place.

[Zero Gravitas]

It looks very nice, Adam- perhaps Metal Box had a plant nearby? They seem to have had factories all over the place.

They did indeed - but the only plant they had in West Yorkshire was in Shipley, just north of Bradford, which was a machinery building plant, and didn't produce cans (and where I worked for eight years).

 

Coils are generally used to make 2-piece cans (drink cans mainly, although some food cans are 2-piece). The two MB plants using this technology in the UK are at Botcherby, near Carlisle; and at Braunstone, near Leicester. Although just to complicate things further, around the time of the wagon, 2-piece cans were mostly aluminium and not steel.

 

All of which is a long-winded way of saying no, probably not...

[Fat Controller]

In that case, it was presumably being used to smuggle northwards rugby players from Llanelli who had gone over to the 'Dark Side' to pay Rugby League in Yorkshire.