RBE Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 cheers Jim Ill look at adding a bit of grease. I want the paint to harden off a while before adding further paint so Ill tackle that a bit later. As for the buffers for those interested it has taken me ages to find a method Im happy with for the grease on buffers. I really cant be doing with the blob of black/dark grey or a spray of dark to the middle of the buffers. It never looks like the thick graphite looking grease you see on real buffers. I happened across this totally by accident about ayear ago when I was trying to mix up a colour to suit. I accidently mixed some acrylic gunmetal with enamel matt black. The acrylic didnt mix particularly well with the black and went kinda gloopy and ununiformly mixed. turns out perfect for applying to buffers. Its done in a couple of stabs using a cotton bud. The buffers are coated in the chassis weathering colour aready from the weathering stage. The buffer grease is applied last. First apply the mixed black and gunmetal to the centre of the buffer in a sort of squashing motion as if the cotton bud is a buffer contacting the locos buffer and pull away. The paint needs to be worked a bit more in the next stage as you want it to have reacted and thickened slightly. now do a second application as per the first but as you go on and pull off you need to twizzle the cotton bud in your fingers so you create a smooth but thick concentric pattern of patchy black and graphite in the centre of the buffer rather than a flat or stipply effect. Takes a little practice but worth it I think. Cav 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Hi Cav Thanks for this it's exactly what I do with the exception of I use enamel gunmetal. I'll get some acrylic to try it out as that seems to make the difference. I have found that in 4mil the buffers need to be very smooth for reliable shunting. Has this given you any problems at all? I'll definitely give it a go on my leccies as they won't need to shunt. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 (edited) Ive never had any problems with the buffers Jim. Certainly worth a go especially if you arent shunting with the loco. Cav Edited May 24, 2012 by RBE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted May 24, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 24, 2012 (edited) I've been playing with my 85 today and had a go at tweaking the pan so that the head tilts in the right direction. Looking at photos of the real thing the head should have a rod that comes down from the central tube to the stay arm. This should be in the centre of the tube from left to right, the tube being fixed to the head and unable to rotate without it. The tube on Bachmann's pan rotates with the pan arm rather than with the head so cannot be to fix a downrod. As far as I can see Bachmann need to mod the head so that the current short downrod from the pan head (that ends above the centre tube) is made longer with a central hole for the tube, and then continues down below the tube to a pivot for the stay arm. What I've done is to cheat. As Cav said, it is possible to move the stay arm from its incorrect position above the tube which causes the head to tilt the wrong way and reattach it to the downrod at the side of the pan that is meant to clip to the small nipple on the pan base to lock the pan down. This results in the stay arm running to one side of the pan head rather than the centre but does make the head stay level as the pan rises and falls. Also with the pan as supplied it will not go fully down without bending the lower stay arm, once modded the pan will go pretty much fully down. The easiest way I found to change it was to push the centre pin out of the elbow joint. This is quite a loose push fit and will press out easily to the side with a thin length of brass wire. Once the pin is pushed out the whole pan will collapse and unfold in your hands. Now it is quite easy to use a pair of pointed pliers to open up the bend at the lower end of the upper stay arm and release it from its hole in the lower support arm. Having done that it should quite easily unhook from under the pan head. NOW TURN THAT WIRE (the upper stay arm) OVER, it will be refitted the other way up. As the reattachment point is lower than the original the wire is too long. The simple solution to this is to bend the top end of the wire at 90 degrees so that where it clips into the new location (that little down rod that comes below the tube and has a tiny hole in its end) it initially comes down vertically for 1 millimetre before bending towards the elbow joint. Once this is done then hook the wire into the pan head, and into the lower support arm. Bend the lower end of the stay arm back to retain it in the lower support arm again and reinsert the pin into the elbow joint. You should now have a pan with a head that stays level, and a pan the will freely go down almost all the way to the stowed position. One drawback of this mod is the loss of ability to clip the pan in the stowed position but personally I'd rather the pan was able to go up than to go down. Hopefully Bachmann will soon alter the pan so this mod becomes unneeded... Andi Edited May 24, 2012 by Dagworth 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philiprporter Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I've been playing with my 85 today and had a go at tweaking the pan so that the head tilts in the right direction. Looking at photos of the real thing the head should have a rod that comes down from the central tube to the stay arm. This should be in the centre of the tube from left to right, the tube being fixed to the head and unable to rotate without it. The tube on Bachmann's pan rotates with the pan arm rather than with the head so cannot be to fix a downrod. As far as I can see Bachmann need to mod the head so that the current short downrod from the pan head (that ends above the centre tube) is made longer with a central hole for the tube, and then continues down below the tube to a pivot for the stay arm. What I've done is to cheat. As Cav said, it is possible to move the stay arm from its incorrect position above the tube which causes the head to tilt the wrong way and reattach it to the downrod at the side of the pan that is meant to clip to the small nipple on the pan base to lock the pan down. This results in the stay arm running to one side of the pan head rather than the centre but does make the head stay level as the pan rises and falls. Also with the pan as supplied it will not go fully down without bending the lower stay arm, once modded the pan will go pretty much fully down. The easiest way I found to change it was to push the centre pin out of the elbow joint. This is quite a loose push fit and will press out easily to the side with a thin length of brass wire. Once the pin is pushed out the whole pan will collapse and unfold in your hands. Now it is quite easy to use a pair of pointed pliers to open up the bend at the lower end of the upper stay arm and release it from its hole in the lower support arm. Having done that it should quite easily unhook from under the pan head. NOW TURN THAT WIRE (the upper stay arm) OVER, it will be refitted the other way up. As the reattachment point is lower than the original the wire is too long. The simple solution to this is to bend the top end of the wire at 90 degrees so that where it clips into the new location (that little down rod that comes below the tube and has a tiny hole in its end) it initially comes down vertically for 1 millimetre before bending towards the elbow joint. Once this is done then hook the wire into the pan head, and into the lower support arm. Bend the lower end of the stay arm back to retain it in the lower support arm again and reinsert the pin into the elbow joint. You should now have a pan with a head that stays level, and a pan the will freely go down almost all the way to the stowed position. One drawback of this mod is the loss of ability to clip the pan in the stowed position but personally I'd rather the pan was able to go up than to go down. Hopefully Bachmann will soon alter the pan so this mod becomes unneeded... Andi Really clear and useful Andi - many thanks for posting this - will have a go at my class 85 this weekend, Cheers, Phil. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted May 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 25, 2012 Who has found a renumbering technique that works well for them? I tried turps substitute, but it had little effect so I went for the T-Cut and cocktail stick method which worked well and allows finer control over the area affected than a cotton bud. My own particular concern was over the spacing of the Fox numerals. All of the sheets I have in my possession, including almost complete sets for classes 25, 37, 47 etc, have noticeably wider spacing than most photographs of the TOPS era suggest. The quick and dirty edit below below shows my first attempt which may be re-done as I am not totally happy with it. If you look at my shot of the real 22 earlier in this thread you'll see that the numerals look larger than the Fox examples other than the final two. My practice session with the Fox numerals also included having a go at a class 25. Applying each numeral individually was more fiddly, but worked far better in terms of spacing and appearance. I hope this helps. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Hi all Bit of an oddball 85 here Note the numbers at both ends Cheers Jim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NINJA Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Cab number area with the small cast plate.85025 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveb860 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 . Who has found a renumbering technique that works well for them? I applied a tiny bit of turps subsitute on the end of a cocktail stick and lightly pawed at the numbers however on cleaning up after I found i had made the blue underneath go a bit paler and slightly below the numbers as i was dragging the stick down in one direction to pick at the numbers. Its not ruined by any stretch but i just think i might need steering in a better direction here especially as I have another one to renumber. This subject has been covered many many times on this site. Have a look through Weathering, painting and Transfers or Modelling questions and help, you might find the answer ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 26, 2012 Author Share Posted May 26, 2012 also i would like to add the etches-whats best for fixing these? I like formula 560 canopy glue, I use it for lots of things. regards rubbing off numbers, remember that the printing on the loco is an ink, so doesnt take much effort to get it off. t-cut works well but polishes the area and will stand out if being left pristine, ok if its being weathered over. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Anyone who has bought the TOPS version with plated over headcode box - how feasible is it to remove the headcode blanking plate and headlamps to add a headcode panel? Or would the easier approach be to just remove the headlamp mouldings flush with the backing panel and use non-illuminating headcodes to cover the blanking plate? I'd quite like one but in 1974 condition with headcodes but refurbished air braked condition. I'm not too fussed about illuminated headcodes as none of my Silver Fox 81s or Hornby 86s have them, it's really what is the easiest and quickest fix. Also I assume the orange stripe is over-painted and reasonably easy to remove? I've managed to remove the Alphaline printing from a 158 to convert it to Arriva Wales condition without the need for a full repaint so presumably a similar technique has been applied to the orange wash line? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 I like formula 560 canopy glue, I use it for lots of things. regards rubbing off numbers, remember that the printing on the loco is an ink, so doesnt take much effort to get it off. t-cut works well but polishes the area and will stand out if being left pristine, ok if its being weathered over. A polished surface where the number was is exactly what you need for the new numbers to adhere properly and leave no visible carrier. If you apply a waterslide to anything other than a highly polished surface it will result in a slightly cloudy looking carrier film around the number which is not what you want as you cant cover this. Done right the area will then just need a light blow over with some satin varnish in an airbrush to make the number carrier bed into the surrounding paintwork. This should be done even if weathering as the weathering will still not cover the glossy patch. If you dont have an airbrush then tight removal with a cocktail stick and t cut will allow the use of rub on numbers. tbh though these would then benefit from a varnish coat. Cav 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 cheers Cav, will have to give that a try. no news on the AL5 yet, so in the meantime continue to idly search flickr. this shot is another good one for the pipework detail in the first window. 85007 Birmingham new street. http://www.flickr.com/photos/71592768@N08/7198522808/ and this daytime shot shows the headlights are on, best turn them right down on the model to try and get this effect. 85025 on the up fast at Farington with a morning parcel train in May 1987. by Lostock Hall Jct Roger Sutcliffe, on Flickr . Mike 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giz Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I've just found a couple of my shots of 85s at Euston near the end of their days. 85003 85031 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 (edited) good pics as usual mike. just one note-where the (shall we call it the exhauster pipe - is that what it is?) pipe enters the shadow on the left it doesnt continue up at the same angle but levels off for the remainder of the run-this is what you will see in normal lighting conditions but this photo does give a closer view of the exhauster. good to see another advocate of daytime running with visible lighting. it was always there, one just had to look at the locos "properly"! Edited May 29, 2012 by ThaneofFife Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 (edited) That's what I have always said - model what you see not what you think you know. - You are getting it Stuart! Of course we can all see, not many learn to really look, if in doubt always ask an artist - they are trained to look at things properly. Cheers Jim Edited May 29, 2012 by jim s-w Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 (edited) Model master transfers arrived today. I have found these to be smaller than the ones on the factory model. Original plan was to leave the "85" digits on and just replace the last 3 numbers but alas the different font size put the kybosh on that idea. Its come out OK - what do you guys think about the size of the numbers? Measuring them they come out at a tad over 2mm tall. Strangely the factory 85026 numbers are about the same height - I think its the thickness of the numbers that makes them look larger than the more spindly Modelmaster decals. Its bothering me and I know it really shouldnt! Anyway here is a pic. I want to address the pan head issue next as mine will be fixed at a fairly low height..... One question is how do the bogie frames come away to reveal the wheelsets? Ive tried picking away at the apparent joins with a flat bladed screwdrive but its not been successful. Does one need to drop the bogie motor towers and release the frames from the top? Edited May 29, 2012 by ThaneofFife 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 (edited) When I did a BR Blue 47 a couple of years ago, I spent ages scaling photographs to work out whether the transfers for the numbers I had in my possession were to scale or not. The conclusions I came to: All transfers are not the same height or "boldness" - there is considerable variability in height between Fox, Modelmaster, Replica and Nairnshire's ones (to name but a few). Off the top of my head this was between about 1.9mm and 2.3mm in height. Scaling numbers off various prototype pictures suggests that there was variability on the prototype too so the prototype might dictate your choice of transfer. There is massive variability in the size and "boldness" of what manufacturers print. This is seldom picked up on in reviews of models. Probably best to ignore what Bachmann have done and go back to prototype pics to work out how big they *should* be. To get perfect consistency you will need to replace the TOPS class numbers too. Replica transfers seemed less anaemic and being rub-on gave the best result (IMHO) and were the ones I ended up choosing. Hope that helps? Edited May 29, 2012 by lyneux 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 If you twist the bogie to one side there's enough space to get a screwdriver into the top and to unclip the bogie frames (the clips are at the ends). Unless you are changing gauge though I am not sure why you would want to. Hth Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 (edited) Its come out OK - what do you guys think about the size of the numbers? Measuring them they come out at a tad over 2mm tall. Strangely the factory 85026 numbers are about the same height - I think its the thickness of the numbers that makes them look larger than the more spindly Modelmaster decals Hi Stuart They look about right to me size wise. However if you want to be picky you seem to have them too high compared to this picture Hth Jim Edited May 29, 2012 by jim s-w Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 yeah the height was something that was rattling me. i have two more sets of 85040 decals so i think i might have another bash and set em lower down the cabsides. thanks for the tip about the bogies Jim. they do need a bit of a push but theyre off at last with no breakages. reason is i want to black out the contact strips prior to weathering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 While you have the frames off give the wheels a coat of frame dirt. Much easier to cover the whole wheel with the frames out of the way. Leave them darker around the nooks and crannies about those nice linkages. Cav 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 85018 at Weymss Bay - 19th March, 1977 by Deadmans Handle, on Flickr 85018 at Weymss Bay - 19th March, 1977 by Deadmans Handle, on Flickr 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted May 30, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 30, 2012 Strikes me as being an unusual thing to see at Wemyss Bay - anyone any idea what it was doing there? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 he also has this shot. "an adex from Manchester, working the train from Preston to Wemyss Bay and back. The excursion included a ferry ride to Rothesay" the other 85 was to release this one. 85040 at Wemyss Bay! 19 March 1977 by Deadmans Handle, on Flickr 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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