Bachmann Open Days - July 2011

[wombatofludham]

1964. Still about 100 running in 1960, then a very swift run down as the replacement diesel power came in.

 

 

Thanks for that, so I should be able to just about run one alongside green diesels and electric blue 81 and 85s. My planned shed layout will cover 1962-2006 WCML north of Stafford, so I shouldn't rack up too many penalty points on my modellers licence to have a 3F alongside an 85!

[Guest Max Stafford]

I assume that the porthole stock hasn't reached the three-dimensional stage then as yet?

 

Dave.

[Rugd1022]

A very impressive and encouraging line up there - many thanks Andy for sharing those. I can't stop looking at the AL5s, I was thinking of cancelling my pre-order for one a while back with the Dapol Hydraulics on the horizon wanting my wallet opening, but those two photos have made me change my mind. Bachmann really are coming on leaps and bounds aren't they!

 

To the library Jeeves, and dust off those AC 'leckie books again

[Andy Y]

I assume that the porthole stock hasn't reached the three-dimensional stage then as yet?

 

Not as yet Dave; they're still at the research/drawing/CAD stages behind others.

 

I think it's relevant point to say that that the BP has certainly taken up its fair share of R&D time which can impact on other projects; there again it was announced much earlier in it's gestation period than most other projects are.

 

 

 

[Andy Y]

Just as further clarification on the above:

 

All the Research & Development work for the Porthole stock here in the UK has been completed and the files are now in China awaiting their turn in the CAD queue. Once these drawings have been produced and checked the tooling work will commence.

 

 

The models were only announced in March and are on schedule.

 

 

 

 

[spackz]

The new models are looking good, AL5 looks like its going to be a winner.

 

Was there any news on the class 40 re-chassis and body tooling? They seem to be making progress with the new B1 and V2 chassis.

 

Cheers Paul

[coachmann]

Thanks Andy for the news.....I've only just come across this thread.

 

Bachmann is definitely the scale modellers manufacturer. (okay, in my humble opinion). All the 4mm scale products look fantastic. And such a wide timescale too from the MR 3F to the original Derby Lightweight to the AC electric and the newish EWS steel and timber wagons. Great stuff!

[298]

Some photos of the third Class 85 have been posted on DEMU's forum (not much help I know to non members) that show the correct rainstrips and chokes for a later version loco.

 

Andi

 

What's the word on the DEMU forum, Andi...? I've yet to find anything that would stop me buying one, but with two blue tops ones already, I might just fancy an electric blue one.

 

What are the chances of someone commissioning a run of "Fell Runner"...?

[davidw]

Andy - thanks for posting this.

[Dagworth]

What's the word on the DEMU forum, Andi...? I've yet to find anything that would stop me buying one, but with two blue tops ones already, I might just fancy an electric blue one.

 

What are the chances of someone commissioning a run of "Fell Runner"...?

 

Mainly a discussion about the driver's windscreen size. Looks like that change has been missed but it didn't apply to the whole class. No-one has found any other errors on it, I think the only person making any kind of negative comments was me here, which have now been put firmly to sleep. My only question now then would be the rivets on the inset sections that look a tad on the large size, in 60 or so phots I have of the real thing those rivets only actually show in two photos which is why I've left them out on my scratchbuilt one. Will be interesting to see if they disappear a bit on the painted model.

Looks like a good 'un to me

 

Andi

[298]

Mainly a discussion about the driver's windscreen size. Looks like that change has been missed but it didn't apply to the whole class. No-one has found any other errors on it, I think the only person making any kind of negative comments was me here, which have now been put firmly to sleep. My only question now then would be the rivets on the inset sections that look a tad on the large size, in 60 or so phots I have of the real thing those rivets only actually show in two photos which is why I've left them out on my scratchbuilt one. Will be interesting to see if they disappear a bit on the painted model.

Looks like a good 'un to me

 

Andi

 

I "think" the top of the cab footstep recess is in the right place, but the bottom could be a bit lower, as it looks too far up the turn-in at the bottom of the body. Or am I just being pedantic...? It certainly looks the part to me, I just can't decide which livery to get.

 

"FOR SALE, three Hornby class 86 motor bogies, one trailing bogie, two used Sommerfeldt 968 pantographs, eight A1 models brass buffers, two pairs of screw couplings. Included for free are two kitbashed bodies and underframes that resemble the class 85...."

[Guest Max Stafford]

Thanks for the heads up concerning the coaches, Andy. I'd forgotten about the B*** P****** - yes, I imagine that it has taken up a huge amount of time and effort. It's a pretty big job tooling up an entire train purely from 'paper' data when the real thing no longer exists in any real sense!

I imagine I'm going to be rather impressed when the model breaks cover seeing as Bachmann have seriously got it together on the R&D and production front.

Looks like I'll have time to get my Comet/247 portholes done yet though but that suits me fine!

 

 

Dave.

[Jenny Emily]

The class 85 looks great. I also hope that it leads to other AC electrics appearing. I wonder if anyone has plans to commission a model of 85101 in Railfreight grey? Or maybe it will appear in the main range?

[reevesthecat]

Not sure if mentioned already but end on pics of the 85 on modelrails facebook page, looks good. Re 85101- collectors club model perhaps?

mark

[Ed-farms]

Re 85101- collectors club model perhaps?

 

Or possibly the ACLG might have a stab at a model loco, either way someone will do it and no doubt sell like hot cakes.

[298]

Or possibly the ACLG might have a stab at a model loco, either way someone will do it and no doubt sell like hot cakes.

 

It would be slightly easier now there is a reputable model of an 85 available, but when the subject was discussed at an ACLG AGM, I commented that the group would initially have to find tens of thousands of pounds up front (or some asset to borrow against), and then pay for marketing said project so the minimum order could be met, and finally ensuring each payment had been recieved in full before packaging, addressing, and posting each loco plus it's certificate. You can see how established retailers with a mail order business can add limited editions to their business model, and how it can be better value to hire a van and a couple of students for a week to hand-deliver locos instead of posting them...!!

 

There's also a fine balance between charging too much or ordering too many and not selling the allocation, and conversely being too popular and seeing the model double in value, so your £20 profit (est.) turns into £100 in someone else's pocket. I'm not knocking the idea as the ACLG would love to recieve a royalty from someone who does go ahead with a limited edition. There is also the question of whether it ought to be:

 

85101 in Triple Grey

85101 in it's last days with red bufferbeams and E numbers on the secondmans side

85030 with it's unofficial "Fell Runner" name...

[craigwelsh]

Trademark its nameplates, seems to have worked for some owners..

 

I know Tornado has been massively popular but could Bachmann somehow do the ACLG loco and provide a small amount of Royalties? Possibly collectors club item if needed.

[wombatofludham]

Call me picky, but even as a member of the ACLG I'm not sure I'd want the Railfright Grey livery as it's semi-fictional (OK it was painted in that livery but never worked on the main line in that guise and I don't do stuffed and mounted models, they have to work for their money). Much better to have a fundraising limited edition in a livery it actually worked the main line in.

 

There again, I'm probably being very anally retentive.

[298]

Trademark its nameplates, seems to have worked for some owners..

 

Nameplates weren't fitted until 2003 and are usually removed for movements, because Network Rail don't have a gauge profile for a named 85 so technically it is out of gauge...!! And I'm not sure if the Barrow Hill roundhouse diamond has been trademarked, it is carried on the plain grey side and the 85 was the first loco it was fitted to.

 

Call me picky, but even as a member of the ACLG I'm not sure I'd want the Railfright Grey livery as it's semi-fictional (OK it was painted in that livery but never worked on the main line in that guise and I don't do stuffed and mounted models, they have to work for their money). Much better to have a fundraising limited edition in a livery it actually worked the main line in.

 

There again, I'm probably being very anally retentive.

 

I'd have to agree I would prefer a non-grey livery, the only reason for buying one would be because I helped to paint it in that livery and actually finished one of my bashed models in RfD before this livery was decided upon for the real loco. There aren't any other options apart from the ones listed above, so no wonder they were known as BR's most boring class.

[gc4946]

Of all the news at their trade event, I was mostly interested in their class 85 progress. BTW I was at Doncaster for 85 101's naming and might consider buying it if this was offered through their Collectors Club. Even if it was only offered in blue BR I would include it in my fleet as it would complement my named loco fleet as a workhorse.

[Jenny Emily]

The limited edition of Tornado in works grey sold really well, no doubt raising funds for the group, so I don't see why a limited edition of 85101 in triple grey should be sniffed at if it can raise money for the restoration of the loco. In preservation, all money that can be raised is very welcome, wherever it comes from. I'm sure that if a version in pink with yellow spots would sell well and raise valuable cash, it would be worth doing.

 

Whilst there are many people who want rigid prototypical models and nothing that deviates from working life prototypes, there are more than enough people who will buy a limited edition because it is a little different and eye catching (as my office display cabinet with a variety of pre-grouping and promotional liveried locos and stock will testify - all fully paid up and sending money to retailers/groups/companies prepared to take a risk and commission them). That same cabinet will at some point in the future be finding room for an SECR liveried C class for the same reason, to lord it over my otherwise BR blue TOPS era collection.

[Trains4U]

Putting my pessimistic hat on - I can't see 500 3TG 85s selling.

I just can't

 

 

Tornado captured the public imagination and had huge press following and exposure, hence it's popularity

Tornado can be counted alongside Mallard and Flying Scotsman as a household name.

 

85101 isn't, and never will be.

 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the plain workaday 85s sell well.

They look amazing. - top quality models from Bachmann.

 

Only time will tell, but history is not on their side.

 

there may be a market for a few dozen resprays, but comissioning 500 in railfreight would be a folly.

[47164]

The 85 looks surperb, its good to see Bachmann leading the way again and with a good market priced product.My monies ready run.

 

I would like to see Heljan re run the 86 with an older variety of liveries, a decent pantograph and market sustaintable prices ,and Hornby re-consider their toy like approach to AC electrics, and to re use the Lima phantographs.

I just wonder if people hold back from buying because of the issues of the latter two.

[wombatofludham]

The 85 looks surperb, its good to see Bachmann leading the way again and with a good market priced product.My monies ready run.

 

I would like to see Heljan re run the 86 with an older variety of liveries, a decent pantograph and market sustaintable prices ,and Hornby re-consider their toy like approach to AC electrics, and to re use the Lima phantographs.

I just wonder if people hold back from buying because of the issues of the latter two.

 

 

I think to be honest the 85 is going to be the first RTR electric loco to the same kind of standard diesel fans have become used to. The Heljan 86 suffered from inexcusable detail errors which, had it been cheaper, might have been acceptable as the overall look wasn't too far off but at the price they still go for (and surely if it had been such a lemon in the sales department they would be heavily discounted by now?) it's not really vfm - plus Heljan have shot themselves in the foot by making the moulding only sutiable for the post 1997 era, when if they had made things like the Inergen fire bottles and high intensity lamp seperate fittings, they could have issued the loco in the arguably more popular rail blue livery. Hornby's collection of mouldings are variable - the Limby 87 must be one of the oldest loco mouldings still in regular production, and whilst good when first introduced (if I remeber it was one of Lima's first OO scale mouldings and I'm sure it dates from the late 70s) it really isn't up to scratch today, and even at £50 it needs a lot of work to get it right, with underscale bogies and a lot of moulded on detail to remove and change. The Hornby 86 is better but isn't DCC ready, their 90 looks the part but again is of it's day. People claiming AC electric modelling is not popular are not looking at the whole picture - the market hasn't yet delivered a decent well detailed AC electric model, or the necessary British style 4mm OHLE. In any case, surely by now if the market was so bad Hornby would have dropped their range, yet they still find time to get precious factory slots to make them, so someone must be buying them.

 

People used to say that there would be no interest in modelling Southern 3rd rail layouts as they are "boring" and all the same, the models would be expensive, have limited appeal, and that's why model companies were not making models of them. They would point to the Hornby "Networker" being the only model and say that proved the market wasn't there. Then Bachmann produced their 4-CEP, and suddenly we're now in the position where a reasonably viable 3rd rail layout can now be attempted using RTR stock, with both the big hitters making "milk floats". I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happens with the Bachmann 85 and that it will prompt Hornby to look at matching it with something new, in much the same way as the VEP was announced very quickly after Bachmann's CEP (and much more quickly than they would have announced it if they were waiting to see if Bachmann laid an egg with the CEP).

 

Whatever, I'm going to be having a very expensive few months stocking up on the three versions of the 85!

[davidw]

Any news on the Sleepers?